Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Warks]

This article raises a lot of salient points about Krudd.
Has Kevin Rudd Changed Upon Returning To PM Role?

What I laughed at though was the 'poll' at the bottom. The question: [h=3]Has Kevin Rudd changed since his first stint as PM?[/h]Yes 33%
No 66%
Total votes: 3.

Poll closed 3 Jul, 2013

 

[Mak404matt]

This article raises a lot of salient points about Krudd.
Has Kevin Rudd Changed Upon Returning To PM Role?

What I laughed at though was the 'poll' at the bottom. The question: Has Kevin Rudd changed since his first stint as PM?

Yes 33%
No 66%
Total votes: 3.

Poll closed 3 Jul, 2013

Poll made me laugh! It's at 50/50 and 4 votes now though ahaha!

 

[11sjw]

And here's another twist in the upcoming election campaign:



Will be interesting to see how Abbott and co spin this.

Something about senility and communism mixing easily.

 

[drron]

Well I dont think Malcolm Fraser has changed as much as the Liberal Party.
I chaired a debate between Malcolm as Minister for Science and Tom Lewis then Premier of NSW at Sydney Uni in 1969.I was the president of the SU Conservation Society and also organised the debate.Had a few chats with him about conservation so not surprised to see him cooperating with the Greens.

 

[medhead]

That makes it right, yeah. Imagine if we elected our politicians that way. The only notification of an upcoming election being a classified ad in the AFR. No advertising, no websites, no disclosure. First thing most Australians would know about an election would be a month or so after it had been held, when we would be told all positions had been filled unopposed.

Makes North Korea look like a bastion of democracy.

I love the way that every Australian gets a vote. None of this cough you get in America where credentials are checked at the door and elections are held on a workday and the rules are stacked against those at the bottom.

Here, if your address is "under the Story Bridge" you can get on the roll and your vote is as good as any millionaire's. And if you don't vote, they come and ask why not.

Elections are well advertised, discussed and debated. You'd have to be dumb and blind and stupid not to know an election was coming up, and even then, someone would find some way to let you know officially and help you cast a vote.

Yeah, the HSU members had an opportunity to vote. A tiny technical opportunity. There are opportunities and there are opportunities. When union elections are conducted so very differently from the normal processes of democracy, you have to ask why? And which way is fairest?

I think in the case of the HSU the answer is obvious.

I didn't say anything about right or wrong. As someone on the executive committee if my professional society I know the rules regarding appointment of officers are clearly set out in the constitution. If HSU members were so concerned they had 365 days a year to read the HSU constitution and related rules of incorporation as registered with the relevant state regulator.

The comparison with the federal election is pretty false as well. Media interest is not the same as the formal call for nominations and announcement of election.

 

[BadgerBoi]

This article raises a lot of salient points about Krudd.
Has Kevin Rudd Changed Upon Returning To PM Role?

What I laughed at though was the 'poll' at the bottom. The question: Has Kevin Rudd changed since his first stint as PM?

Yes 33%
No 66%
Total votes: 3.

Poll closed 3 Jul, 2013

So that's a "Yes" vote from Kevin Rudd, and "No" votes from Julia Gillard and Chrissie Pyne.

 

[amaroo]

Sure. But if there's a criminal case against him, it's not for breaching HSU policy. It's for more than that.

FWIW I think he probably only needs to worry about the black Amex he got on the side from a union supplier.

All the other stuff is just normal union behavior......look at the form of a now EX-PM and a certain AWU slush fund

However, the EX-National President of the ALP looks like he's up to his eye-balls in excrement.

 

[Skyring]

FWIW I think he probably only needs to worry about the black Amex he got on the side from a union supplier.

There's that, too. The audit report came up with some expenditure on the magic card after he'd resigned as a union official. It will be interesting to see how he explains that.

 

[drsmithy]

I love the way that every Australian gets a vote. None of this cough you get in America where credentials are checked at the door and elections are held on a workday and the rules are stacked against those at the bottom.

Just give him some more time and Mr Campbell up here in QLD will rectify that !

 

[Sprucegoose]

The criminal case is based on his alleged fraudulent use of the credit card. That is why the policy is relevant to the case. The criminal behaviour is alleged in relation to use if union funds.

Union members do get to vote for the union executive etc. They also get to vote in elections.

What is most interesting is that it seems to be non-union members who have complained most about this.

You are suggesting this is accepted behaviour amongst union members more so than would otherwise be the case? Tragic.

 

[Skyring]

Just give him some more time and Mr Campbell up here in QLD will rectify that !

On discriminatory voting. Has there been any evidence of this? Legislation would have to be passed, and that's a bit hard to sneak through without people noticing.

Any speeches indicating intent? Part of the election platform?

Not having a go at you, but I wonder what's informing your comment. I'll be in Queensland for a few days, perhaps I'll read the papers.

 

[Skyring]

You are suggesting this is accepted behaviour amongst union members more so than would otherwise be the case? Tragic.

It's not a union/non-union thing, the abuse of credit cards. At least not in my mind. What people spend their own money on is their business. Air travel, accommodation, boozey meals and yes, even prostitutes are not unknown on the credit cards of those here, I suggest.

But when it's money given over from those who have little and spent without their consent by those who have much, one wonders about the ethics. Money intended to be spent as advertised - on improving the working conditions and rewards of the members. Just exactly how does spending thousands of dollars on prostitutes benefit those on the bottom?

 

[drsmithy]

On discriminatory voting. Has there been any evidence of this? Legislation would have to be passed, and that's a bit hard to sneak through without people noticing.

Any speeches indicating intent? Part of the election platform?

Not having a go at you, but I wonder what's informing your comment. I'll be in Queensland for a few days, perhaps I'll read the papers.

A few things that have been in the news lately:

• Increasing the %age of vote necessary to obtain public funding from 4% to 10%.
• Talk of eliminating compulsory voting.
• Removing of political donation caps.
• Removing polling day enrollment.
• Strict (photo) ID checking at polling booths.

 

[drsmithy]

But when it's money given over from those who have little and spent without their consent by those who have much, one wonders about the ethics. Money intended to be spent as advertised - on improving the working conditions and rewards of the members. Just exactly how does spending thousands of dollars on prostitutes benefit those on the bottom?

I assume his point was more that people who aren't in the Union, and thus have no skin in that particular game, have little justification to be outraged about Union funds being misused.

It would be like calling for some random CEO to be charged because he used his company-issued credit card to hire a prostitute. Unless you're a shareholder, it's not your business.

 

[BadgerBoi]

A few things that have been in the news lately:

• Increasing the %age of vote necessary to obtain public funding from 4% to 10%.
• Talk of eliminating compulsory voting.
• Removing of political donation caps.
• Removing polling day enrollment.
• Strict (photo) ID checking at polling booths.

Eliminating compulsory voting is a real concern. It's one of the things I like best about our system because it makes it difficult for hard-line groups with loony agendas to get a hold, as they do in the USA.

What's with ID checking at polling booths? Sounds to me it would just slow the lines down, but I'm guessing it's seen as a way of making sure that some segments of the population could be prevented from voting. Is there any evidence of fraud?

 

[drsmithy]

What's with ID checking at polling booths? Sounds to me it would just slow the lines down, but I'm guessing it's seen as a way of making sure that some segments of the population could be prevented from voting. Is there any evidence of fraud?

No evidence of fraud has been shown that I've heard of.

 

[eastwest101]

A few things that have been in the news lately:

• Increasing the %age of vote necessary to obtain public funding from 4% to 10%.
• Talk of eliminating compulsory voting.
• Removing of political donation caps.
• Removing polling day enrollment.
• Strict (photo) ID checking at polling booths.

Nice list of assertions and omissions there, I understand your first point about the public funding is definately there in the media and can be argued by both sides, however you know that the current QLD state government decided to retain compulsory voting as reported yesterday. You are also mis-representing the donations cap situation, the caps will be raised but also brought onto a continious disclosure monthly basis and not 6 or 12 month retrospective publications that can sometimes happen after elections. I suspect making unions also accountable and having to report their donations is the real reason why some are upset about this one. If you read the actual report about polling day enrollment (with quarrantining of votes until verified by ECQ) - it is discussed as an itme for review but I haven't heard any politicians say they want to get rid of it. Similarly - the photo ID checking at polling booths is also discussed with the pros and cons covered reasonably well. I would support anything that assists in monitoring or improving the integrity of the elecroral roll and the report discusses some of the logistical issues. A lot of other electoral reforms discussed and I don't have a problem with the ECQ reviewing how our demorcacy works.

The full report is here, if other members want to make up their own mind and don't want to just accept drsmithy's hysteria....

http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/171529/disc-ppr-electroal-reform.pdf

 

[Pushka]

No Cookies | The Advertiser

Mr Barnes was critical of both state and Commonwealth agencies in relation to the roll-out and policing of the HIP scheme.
He said the speed with which the program was "conceived and implemented" by the federal government of the time was to stimulate the economy during the global financial crisis but shouldn't have come at the cost of human life.
He said one witness who gave evidence at the inquest told the court a similar program would usually take around two years to be properly implemented.
The HIP was drafted in February, 2009 for implementation on July 1 that same year.

 

[drsmithy]

Nice list of assertions and omissions there, I understand your first point about the public funding is definately there in the media and can be argued by both sides, however you know that the current QLD state government decided to retain compulsory voting as reported yesterday.

Actually I didn't because I don't get to see the news on Wednesdays. Good to know.

You are also mis-representing the donations cap situation, the caps will be raised but also brought onto a continious disclosure monthly basis and not 6 or 12 month retrospective publications that can sometimes happen after elections.

I should have said the cap was simply increasing, not being removed. However, it's going up so much it hardly matters.
The reporting is irrelevant to the actual problem of political donations.

I suspect making unions also accountable and having to report their donations is the real reason why some are upset about this one.

Probably. Though, while I believe political donations should only be allowable from people, not organisations (including Unions), there is a qualitative difference between a corporation and a union.

The full report is here, if other members want to make up their own mind and don't want to just accept drsmithy's hysteria....

How anything above qualifies as "hysteria" escapes me. I listed a handful of things off the top of my head that have been in the news recently which are in the same theme as those being undertaken in other places like America. Indeed, the talk about voter ID checks under the bogeyman of "fraud" is exactly the kind of thing conservative groups are trying to do in several US states because they know it disproportionately impacts the lower-end of the socio-economic scale who generally don't vote conservative.

 

[eastwest101]

.... Indeed, the talk about voter ID checks under the bogeyman of "fraud" is exactly the kind of thing conservative groups are trying to do in several US states because they know it disproportionately impacts the lower-end of the socio-economic scale who generally don't vote conservative.

Fair enough - the changes to the Aus electoral act in 2007 tightened up the ID requirements for new and change of enrollment on the electoral roll. Possible faudulent electors whom may have slipped through the system pre-2007 may still be in there but it is very difficult to know if you do have a problem if there are no checks in place. I'm not an expert on the US electoral system but from what I do know - its maybe more complicated and possibly more open to fraud and manipulation than the Australian system.

I am just saying that its good to review the electoral laws once and a while and make sure that we do have a good system - which I think we would both agree - is pretty good in Australia. So you can inkove some right wing Newman conspiracy theory if you want, but I am always interested in discussing potential electoral reform regardless of whether the ALP or the Coalition comission the review or enquiry.