Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pushka]

Wouldn't it be funny if it was a hung parliament?

Who would be able to negotiate with the independents to form a government?

I think it would be a dreadful day for Australia. I'd much prefer either side (really) than another 3 years like we've just had.

 

[Skyring]

Wouldn't it be funny if it was a hung parliament?

Who would be able to negotiate with the independents to form a government?

What independents? Windsor and Oakeshott and Slipper will be gone, Thomson will be behind bars, Katter is unlikely to support Rudd.

Those are four seats the Coalition will pick up without a fuss.

 

[drron]

Just check out Antony Green's electoral pendulum.If there is a swing of 0.3% swing to the ALP from the 2010 election Tony Abbott will be PM.Because New England,Lyne and Fisher now held by Independents would go to the coalition leaving Coalition 75 seats,ALP 72 seats and messrs Wilkie,Bandt and Katter to decide the PM.Now there is a slight chance Katter will go with Rudd but more likely he will back the Coalition.

 

[eastwest101]

Yes - possibly Andrew Wilkie would be the only Independent except for Katter left after the election so it is theoretically possible that if the polls close up that in a hung parliament he and Katter may have to decide to support one party or another to form government.

 

[Hvr]

There's nothing stopping independents running in other electorates. Although, I will concede that voters might be a little less likely to vote them in now.

 

[HarryB]

Thomson will be behind bars

While I believe he is wasting his time running for re-election I think you have seriously over estimated the speed of the judicial system. Not to mention having apparently made up your mind on his guilt despite being privy only to the facts (or otherwise) presented to you in the media.

With all due respect, as i have read many of your posts on this thread, this is not the work of a self described impartial AFFer I wouldn't think.

 

[Skyring]

While I believe he is wasting his time running for re-election I think you have seriously over estimated the speed of the judicial system. Not to mention having apparently made up your mind on his guilt despite being privy only to the facts (or otherwise) presented to you in the media.

Chill. Thomson will be in the coils of the legal system for a while. He's not going to be re-elected.

But yes, I have made up my mind, based on the evidence presented. The various reports of FWA and the auditors have been available online for some time and I watched Thomson stand up in Parliament to give his explanation. The media opinions have been far more cautious than my own.

Unless Thomson can find plausible evidence to support his theory of having been set up, information he has obviously been unable to share with the prosecution as they are still prosecuting him, then my opinion is that no impartial judge can weigh up the evidence against him and his explanation of it and come out on Thomson's side. No newspaper or television reports required there.

 

[amaroo]

Lack of CC or any other policy is going to work in his favor.

 

[Skyring]

Lack of CC or any other policy is going to work in his favor.

Sure. But if there's a criminal case against him, it's not for breaching HSU policy. It's for more than that.

I think the worst aspect of his behaviour has been ripping off the union members. These people didn't even get an opportunity to vote.

 

[medhead]

Sure. But if there's a criminal case against him, it's not for breaching HSU policy. It's for more than that.

I think the worst aspect of his behaviour has been ripping off the union members. These people didn't even get an opportunity to vote.

The criminal case is based on his alleged fraudulent use of the credit card. That is why the policy is relevant to the case. The criminal behaviour is alleged in relation to use if union funds.

Union members do get to vote for the union executive etc. They also get to vote in elections.

What is most interesting is that it seems to be non-union members who have complained most about this.

 

[HarryB]

Didn't NSW police decide there wasn't enough to justify pursuing it before handing it over the Vic police? That may have been due to alleged offences not being committed in NSW, I don't recall.

Regardless, the burden of proof is with the prosecution and Thompson, like every one of us would expect, deserves to have his day in court but the media and opposition have poisoned the whole thing by painting him as guilty already. There is little chance of an impartial jury now so Thompson would surely be hoping for a no jury hearing. If he is found guilty then he deserves what he gets, but if he is found not guilty then there will be a hell of a lot of people who can be satisfied they crucified an innocent man for political gain. Personally, I think he's a pig of a man but that makes him no less deserving of a fair trial.

 

[medhead]

Didn't NSW police decide there wasn't enough to justify pursuing it before handing it over the Vic police? That may have been due to alleged offences not being committed in NSW, I don't recall.

As best I understand that was just a jurisdictional thing. Nothing to pursue in NSW but maybe something in Vic. I assume that is related to the union being resident in Victoria.

 

[Skyring]

Union members do get to vote for the union executive etc. They also get to vote in elections.

For many years all significant HSU positions were elected unopposed. This was due to the union newsletter containing zero information about upcoming union elections and the mandatory public advertisement being buried in the classifieds of some publication the members were most unlikely to read. Other factors made it virtually impossible for anyone but the ruling clique to get up.

This changed once people started looking closely at the union.

There's a summary at this download.

 

[medhead]

For many years all significant HSU positions were elected unopposed. This was due to the union newsletter containing zero information about upcoming union elections and the mandatory public advertisement being buried in the classifieds of some publication the members were most unlikely to read. Other factors made it virtually impossible for anyone but the ruling clique to get up.

This changed once people started looking closely at the union.

There's a summary at this download.

The operative word there is elected. The failure of people to enquiry about it, does not mean they were not allowed a vote.

 

[Hvr]

And here's another twist in the upcoming election campaign:

Former Liberal prime minister Malcolm Fraser will campaign with Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young at a public forum in Adelaide this weekend.


Mr Fraser, who quit the Liberal Party in 2009, saying it had become too conservative, will front a free ''conversation'' and Q&A session with the Greens senator about ''why humanity matters in politics''.

Read more: Fraser to campaign with Greens senator
​

Will be interesting to see how Abbott and co spin this.

 

[Skyring]

The operative word there is elected. The failure of people to enquiry about it, does not mean they were not allowed a vote.

That makes it right, yeah. Imagine if we elected our politicians that way. The only notification of an upcoming election being a classified ad in the AFR. No advertising, no websites, no disclosure. First thing most Australians would know about an election would be a month or so after it had been held, when we would be told all positions had been filled unopposed.

Makes North Korea look like a bastion of democracy.

I love the way that every Australian gets a vote. None of this cough you get in America where credentials are checked at the door and elections are held on a workday and the rules are stacked against those at the bottom.

Here, if your address is "under the Story Bridge" you can get on the roll and your vote is as good as any millionaire's. And if you don't vote, they come and ask why not.

Elections are well advertised, discussed and debated. You'd have to be dumb and blind and stupid not to know an election was coming up, and even then, someone would find some way to let you know officially and help you cast a vote.

Yeah, the HSU members had an opportunity to vote. A tiny technical opportunity. There are opportunities and there are opportunities. When union elections are conducted so very differently from the normal processes of democracy, you have to ask why? And which way is fairest?

I think in the case of the HSU the answer is obvious.

 

[Hvr]

[h=1]Tally room axed for election[/h]

Sad to see this go but I guess it was inevitable once technology got so advanced.

I'm glad I went there in 2007. It was a Canberra institution and I was amazed when I was there that I actually met people I knew. People planned to meet there and make a night of it.

The national tally room has been axed for the 2013 federal election following the withdrawal of television networks from the million dollar service.


The Electoral Commissioner Ed Killesteyn announced the decision on Tuesday, several weeks after reports that commercial broadcasters planned to abandon the service in a cost-cutting move expected to save them up to $500,000 each.

Read more: National Tally Room in Canberra Axed for Federal Election
​

 

[Pushka]

And here's another twist in the upcoming election campaign:

Will be interesting to see how Abbott and co spin this.

Malcolm's changed a lot since PM. Maybe it's part of the ageing process.

 

[Skyring]

And here's another twist in the upcoming election campaign: (Malcolm Fraser goes Green). Will be interesting to see how Abbott and co spin this.

They will point out that Fraser is not a member of the Liberal Party, he is welcome to his opinion, and people are welcome to listen and make their minds up.

Good democracy works on all views being heard and the informed voters making a choice.

 

[drsmithy]

And here's another twist in the upcoming election campaign:



Will be interesting to see how Abbott and co spin this.

Given the substantial shift rightwards in the political spectrum over the last few decades, it's probably not really all that far from where he used to be to the contemporary Greens.