Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[medhead]

You are suggesting this is accepted behaviour amongst union members more so than would otherwise be the case? Tragic.

No, I'm questioning the motives of non-union members kicking up a stink about a union. Like any other business in Australia, unions are entitled to use their funds as they see fit, within the confines of the legal system. As a non member of the Australia club can I kick up a stink about any kick backs the club secretary may, or may not, receive. Can I kick up a stink about one of the NAB CEOs having his yacht transported to Australia.

 

[Pushka]

No, I'm questioning the motives of non-union members kicking up a stink about a union. Like any other business in Australia, unions are entitled to use their funds as they see fit, within the confines of the legal system. As a non member of the Australia club can I kick up a stink about any kick backs the club secretary may, or may not, receive. Can I kick up a stink about one of the NAB CEOs having his yacht transported to Australia.

Of course you can if you are a shareholder of NAB.

And no company is able to use their funds as they see fit if they expect to be able to use those expenses as an ATO deduction.

 

[medhead]

Of course you can if you are a shareholder of NAB.

Which would be equivalent to being a union member. I'm talking about non-union members kicking up a stink. (For the record as a nab shareholder I thought the explanation for that expense was reasonable)

And no company is able to use their funds as they see fit if they expect to be able to use those expenses as an ATO deduction.

Which is why I added my qualification about being bounded by the legal system. However, any company/business/union can spend their money in whatever way they wish regardless of whether they get a tax deduction or not, ie provided it is all legal.

 

[drron]

Voting fraud does occur in Australia.As I have said I Used to be a campaign manager in a regional and rural electorate.One thing that should be remembered is that booth captains on rural booths usually know everyone who votes there.So when others arrive to vote it is noticed.In 1984 at least 3 booths in our federal electorate noted some extras voting so at the next Federal Election the Booth Captains were asked to photograph the number plates of those who don't usually vote at the booth.The same car with the same 4 men went into the booth at at least 3 polling places.Evidence supplied to the police but nothing happened.Very hard to prove but I am in no doubt it happens.May be very few but I certainly endorse voter ID.

 

[BadgerBoi]

No evidence of fraud has been shown that I've heard of.

I haven't either, only anecdotally, and not in a convincing way.

What a waste of time and effort then - unless, of course, it prevented some people from voting in an, um, undesirable way...

 

[Moody]

Voting fraud does occur in Australia.As I have said I Used to be a campaign manager in a regional and rural electorate.One thing that should be remembered is that booth captains on rural booths usually know everyone who votes there.So when others arrive to vote it is noticed.In 1984 at least 3 booths in our federal electorate noted some extras voting so at the next Federal Election the Booth Captains were asked to photograph the number plates of those who don't usually vote at the booth.The same car with the same 4 men went into the booth at at least 3 polling places.Evidence supplied to the police but nothing happened.Very hard to prove but I am in no doubt it happens.May be very few but I certainly endorse voter ID.

Well on that basis I suggest tattooing DETOV on everyones forehead as they leave the polling booth.

Fine. That's a truly stupid overreaction. How about we get more than acecdotal evidence first?

And I've just watched Leigh Sales doing a Today Tonight hatchet jpb on Kevin Rudd. Very bizarre! The coup de grace was an interview with the parents of one of the insulation installers that tragically died. She kept asking them what they thought the coroner had decided (as apparently journalists and expert commentators were not available), with the fairly obvious outcome.

What I was surprised to hear was their son described as an electrician. How does someone with training forget that foil + staples + live cables is a potentially hazardous environment???? I was under the impression that those who died were young, untrained and exploted for being a little bit naive. But an electrician!!???!!! I wonder what the coroner had to say about that .....

 

[drron]

A surprising rant Moody as you always seem to rely on anecdotal evidence.Of course no surprise coming from you..

 

[eastwest101]

I haven't either, only anecdotally, and not in a convincing way.

What a waste of time and effort then ...

Oh thats all right then - if BadgerBoi hasn't personally seen anything then why should all those expert public servants in the AEC/QEC or other bodies be worried about anything, in fact why bother having enquries into reform of any laws? They should just call BadgerBoi - imagine the savings that could be made having lawyers and other experts all replaced by BadgerBoi ?

 

[drsmithy]

I haven't either, only anecdotally, and not in a convincing way.

What a waste of time and effort then - unless, of course, it prevented some people from voting in an, um, undesirable way...

The sheer impracticality of any significant influence by people voting more than once would suggest it's never likely to be a problem.

When electoral fraud happens, it's going to be an inside job, not a car full of blokes driving to as many voting booths as they can and having a few goes each.

 

[drsmithy]

Oh thats all right then - if BadgerBoi hasn't personally seen anything then why should all those expert public servants in the AEC/QEC or other bodies be worried about anything, in fact why bother having enquries into reform of any laws? They should just call BadgerBoi - imagine the savings that could be made having lawyers and other experts all replaced by BadgerBoi ?

Do you have any credible evidence of meaningful voter fraud ?

 

[BadgerBoi]

Oh thats all right then - if BadgerBoi hasn't personally seen anything then why should all those expert public servants in the AEC/QEC or other bodies be worried about anything, in fact why bother having enquries into reform of any laws? They should just call BadgerBoi - imagine the savings that could be made having lawyers and other experts all replaced by BadgerBoi ?

(shrug) Someone get out of the wrong side of bed this morning, eastwest101?

Thanks for the laugh though eastwest101, and bring on the evidence, eastwest101.


(cool! I can bold user names as well!)

 

[BadgerBoi]

The sheer impracticality of any significant influence by people voting more than once would suggest it's never likely to be a problem.

When electoral fraud happens, it's going to be an inside job, not a car full of blokes driving to as many voting booths as they can and having a few goes each.

Ordinarily I would agree with you, however another poster in this thread has kindly offered my expertise to the authorities, so it's probably not the done thing for me to comment further at this time

 

[amaroo]

Oh thats all right then - if BadgerBoi hasn't personally seen anything then why should all those expert public servants in the AEC/QEC or other bodies be worried about anything, in fact why bother having enquries into reform of any laws? They should just call BadgerBoi - imagine the savings that could be made having lawyers and other experts all replaced by BadgerBoi ?

Why isn't there a double thumbs up like

 

[Moody]

A surprising rant Moody as you always seem to rely on anecdotal evidence.Of course no surprise coming from you..

"as there is no specific evidence of electoral fraud in this area, introduction of proof of identity requirements could be considered a disproportionate response to the risk."


The above is a direct quote from the discussion paper .... or is it now considered a rant????

 

[Pukka]

I can't believe Joe Hockey is winging about the Aussie dollar dropping so much causing increased petrol prices etc. He has spent the past year criticizing the high dollar saying its bad for exporters you can't have it both ways.

The Libs really need to get their act together or it's all going pear shaped

 

[amaroo]

I can't believe Joe Hockey is winging about the Aussie dollar dropping so much causing increased petrol prices etc. He has spent the past year criticizing the high dollar saying its bad for exporters you can't have it both ways.

The Libs really need to get their act together or it's all going pear shaped

It's politics.....

 

[BadgerBoi]

It's "Eleventy Joe" showing his unique grasp on the intricacies of numbers...god help us.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Which would be equivalent to being a union member. I'm talking about non-union members kicking up a stink. (For the record as a nab shareholder I thought the explanation for that expense was reasonable)

Well there aren't that many union members left, so some of us do care for those who are dumb enough to hand over their cash to a bunch of stooges to squander.

Which is why I added my qualification about being bounded by the legal system. However, any company/business/union can spend their money in whatever way they wish regardless of whether they get a tax deduction or not, ie provided it is all legal.

Yes, but currently the laws that apply to a company do not apply to a union, which is coalition policy to rectify.

 

[drsmithy]

I can't believe Joe Hockey is winging about the Aussie dollar dropping so much causing increased petrol prices etc. He has spent the past year criticizing the high dollar saying its bad for exporters you can't have it both ways.

They don't know how to do anything else other than be contrary, because they lack an overall narrative. I cared little for Howard's, but at least he had one.

It's like interest rates - used to be they would "always be lower under a Liberal Government", now they're at "emergency lows".

Or regulations on small business that have gone from "red and green tape is crushing SMBs" to "Peter Garret should have personally written a how-to manual on installing roof insulation".

 

[wmetz]

I dont know what their doing in other states, but for last couple years when u go to vote they use a electronic device to check u off, so I guess they can
instantly tell if someone voted twice.

As with Mr Spockey, he doesnt complain about everything. Didnt hear him complained that the QLD gov couldnt stop the $50,000 a year pay increases for his mates here.