Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[medhead]

So it looks like public servants are the greatest tax rorters-to use the words of some of the regular posters here-
A survey of 100,000 novated leasing contracts by the Australian Salary Packaging Industry Association found state and Federal Government public servants represent the largest portion of novated leasing business (33 per cent) ahead of those in charities and public health (28 per cent), police and teachers (21 per cent) and the private sector (18 per cent).

Read more: Car industry to hold Fringe Benefits Tax crisis meeting this afternoon | News.com.au

And your point is?

 

[amaroo]

I'm still waiting to hear someone explain why taxpayers should be shoring up completely unproductive businesses that are facilitating and dependent on what is, in all but name, tax evasion.

Where do we start - car industry, pink batts, solar industry, negative gearing, mining tax, regional grants spent in the western suburbs of Sydney.........and the list goes on and on and on.

 

[Skyring]

Smart move, Mister Rudd.

Asylum-seekers arriving by boat to go to PNG. Full stop.

Not a policy likely to gain Greens support in the Senate.

But that doesn't matter, because its something the Coalition would support. In fact, I think Rudd must have been peeking at the Coalition policy book.

Assuming there are no legislative hurdles, it should work as quickly and effectively as Howard's Pacific Solution. You know, the one that Rudd dismantled.

The problem would be in whether Rudd can count on Caucus support on this. It can hardly sit well with the Labor Left.

 

[Pushka]

Bill Shorten has backtracked from saying this is a rort. Oh wait, he's speaking from the wrong side.

I'm pretty much disgusted with Australia's asylum policy as announced tonight and I think it will be challenged in the High Court. It's morally bankrupt.

 

[Pukka]

Smart move, Mister Rudd.

Asylum-seekers arriving by boat to go to PNG. Full stop.

Not a policy likely to gain Greens support in the Senate.

But that doesn't matter, because its something the Coalition would support. In fact, I think Rudd must have been peeking at the Coalition policy book.

Assuming there are no legislative hurdles, it should work as quickly and effectively as Howard's Pacific Solution. You know, the one that Rudd dismantled.

The problem would be in whether Rudd can count on Caucus support on this. It can hardly sit well with the Labor Left.

Yep might as well keep the blue ties on and forget about the red ones.

I'd like to know how much it's going to cost though. TA sounded gutted at his press conference basically saying it's a good idea but you can't trust him sounded a bit weak.

Rudd obviously doesn't care what the Greens think which is a lesson Gillard should have learnt a long time ago. The bottom line is they were never going to go with TA so why did she pander to them so much.

 

[amaroo]

Bill Shorten has backtracked from saying this is a rort. Oh wait, he's speaking from the wrong side.

I'm pretty much disgusted with Australia's asylum policy as announced tonight and I think it will be challenged in the High Court. It's morally bankrupt.

Money talks!

 

[drsmithy]

Smart move, Mister Rudd.

Asylum-seekers arriving by boat to go to PNG. Full stop.

Not a policy likely to gain Greens support in the Senate.

But that doesn't matter, because its something the Coalition would support. In fact, I think Rudd must have been peeking at the Coalition policy book.

Assuming there are no legislative hurdles, it should work as quickly and effectively as Howard's Pacific Solution. You know, the one that Rudd dismantled.

The problem would be in whether Rudd can count on Caucus support on this. It can hardly sit well with the Labor Left.

Yes, it'll undoubtedly get the xenophobic racists cheering.

An ethically and morally bankrupt "solution", however. It's not often I feel ashamed to be Australian, but listening to that announcement was certainly one of those times.

 

[Moody]

Where do we start - car industry, pink batts, solar industry, negative gearing, mining tax, regional grants spent in the western suburbs of Sydney.........and the list goes on and on and on.

No, no , no! The Tony Abbott format is THREE word slogans, not TWO.

Or did you want to actually have a real debate about each issue? If that's the case, then please start one (or three).

 

[Pushka]

Yes, it'll undoubtedly get the xenophobic racists cheering.

An ethically and morally bankrupt "solution", however. It's not often I feel ashamed to be Australian, but listening to that announcement was certainly one of those times.

Hells Bells. We have agreement. We even used the same phrase "morally bankrupt". Who'da thunk!

 

[amaroo]

No, no , no! The Tony Abbott format is THREE word slogans, not TWO.

Or did you want to actually have a real debate about each issue? If that's the case, then please start one (or three).

And your point is?

 

[Skyring]

Yes, it'll undoubtedly get the xenophobic racists cheering.

why on earth would you think that?

Nobody is proposing to drop our refugee intake.

 

[drron]

And your point is?

Just answering those that were calling the FBT system a tax retort.One post even called it tax evasion.
I know it is hard to believe but not all my posts are entirely for your benefit medhead.

 

[Moody]

And your point is?

My point is .... do you have something useful to say or just want to glibly lump policies like stimulus spending into the tax avoidance debate?


Then again ....... the scumbags who exploited the insulation scheme to maximise their profits whilst minimising worker safety have something in common with vehicle packaging companies... but I think that's a bit harsh - don't you?

 

[amaroo]

My point is .... do you have something useful to say or just want to glibly lump policies like stimulus spending into the tax avoidance debate?


Then again ....... the scumbags who exploited the insulation scheme to maximise their profits whilst minimising worker safety have something in common with vehicle packaging companies... but I think that's a bit harsh - don't you?

Moods - the polls are up.....you should be happy not moody.

BTW - some people need to type volumes to get their point across.....others can do it in a few lines.

Walking thesauruses rarely contribute anything other than stroking their own ego

 

[medhead]

Just answering those that were calling the FBT system a tax retort.One post even called it tax evasion.
I know it is hard to believe but not all my posts are entirely for your benefit medhead.

So how does the type of people/employees/industries using the system change the idea that it was/is a tax rort. I'm just not clear how your post answers that and what that answer means.

 

[quokka77]

Implied probability (working back from betting markets) of Coalition victory remained 70% for the better part of this week, even as 2PP hovers around 50:50. Maybe there is some lag between 2PP polling and the punters. I would think the asylum seeker policy changes announced today will play well with key constituents, but let's see what happens to Labor's polling over the weekend. Could Kevin be thinking about calling the parliament back to force his PNG pact through? Can't help but wonder what he has promised PNG to get this deal through. Personally I have some serious moral misgivings, but how else do we stop people drowning?

 

[Pukka]

Implied probability (working back from betting markets) of Coalition victory remained 70% for the better part of this week, even as 2PP hovers around 50:50. Maybe there is some lag between 2PP polling and the punters. I would think the asylum seeker policy changes announced today will play well with key constituents, but let's see what happens to Labor's polling over the weekend. Could Kevin be thinking about calling the parliament back to force his PNG pact through? Can't help but wonder what he has promised PNG to get this deal through. Personally I have some serious moral misgivings, but how else do we stop people drowning?

Believe me there is no lag when it comes to betting markets, they're like stock markets (which is basically betting anyway) if anything they're ahead of the curve. Coalition currently 1.35 which has shortened in the last few days so maybe the Rudd factor is wearing off with the bookies.

People will always mock and say the odds are not indicative of the result & how very Australian to decide the next PM by the odds etc etc that's naive nonsense Tom Waterhouse et al don't make millions by giving away free money.

I think the fact that labour have done considerably worse than predicted in all the recent state elections means the writing is on the wall for them despite the Rudd factor. I think this shift on asylum policy might backfire spectacularly and push more ALP voters to the Greens. As for the crack down on car business use tax rorts I don't think they'll necessarily gain more votes but they might lose some.

Australia doing ok in the cricket so back to that.

 

[quokka77]

Some thoughts re: vehicle salary packaging changes and the move from a carbon tax to a low (but floating) carbon price. Seems like tricky politics. First, on Gillard's watch, Labor gave most people carbon tax compensation (to about the level of the increased energy price), and now Rudd wants to reduce the carbon price difference such that most people are making a profit from the compensation. Amazingly, this doesn't seem popular. For people giving away money, they managed to sell this really badly. They needed to take a leaf out of John Howard's election playbook (think one-off aged pension bonus payments prior to an election) to maximize the political return from the cash handouts, and work out how to target their demographic and pitch better. Balancing the ledger by taking away a tax break like the 20% novated lease option is never popular (witness the campaign against self-education expense claim caps) but I do think we need fewer of these fairly arbitrary exemptions. The car industry must be feeling like the meat in a political sandwich. Labor wins and quite a few potential customers could defer purchase of a new car until it fits their revised budgets. Or the Coalition wins and Sophie Panopolis / Mirabella strips $500 million of direct subsidies, and asks the Productivity Commission to run the ruler over the industry and govt assistance in general. Ford must be feeling like they made the right call. Oh well, at least we kept the Ford design and engineering centre.

Some thoughts re: Sophie Mirabella. I agree with Tony Windsor's remarks, the voters in the electorate of Indi deserve better. Anyone who rises to public prominence (as S Mirabella did) by claiming "you can't trust politicians" (vote no on the republic) and then, masterfully, returns as a politician, is at best a hypocrite. But I digress.

 

[drron]

So how does the type of people/employees/industries using the system change the idea that it was/is a tax rort. I'm just not clear how your post answers that and what that answer means.

Because Government ministers and people here are saying that it was mainly the rich driving prestige cars that were getting the benefit from the existing tax rules.

 

[amaroo]

Because Government ministers and people here are saying that it was mainly the rich driving prestige cars that were getting the benefit from the existing tax rules.

LOL don't bother using logic here!