Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[ComeFlyWithMe]

That's not want I said at all. No wonder your argument is ludicrous. It's about the claiming to take self responsibility for your welfare, but then demanding the government to pay for your private health insurance. That's not self responsibility.

But now for your ludicrous connection to income tax. Income tax is tiered according to income. The PHI rebate was not tiered. It was a flat rebate for all incomes. I'm making a point about the rebate now being capped according to income just like income tax. I am not saying everyone at all incomes should get the phi rebate. So no I am absolutely not saying that everyone should pay the same tax rate.

Basically besides totally missing my point about the dichotomy between be self responsible and also demanding welfare. Your little link to income tax is completely false.

I would suggest you review 'Medicare Levy Surcharge' here: http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-levy/Medicare-levy-surcharge/

While you are correct that it is not income tax per se, it is levied on taxable income by the tax office. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Which was only a recent change and subject to some discussion.

And has this been legislated yet?

Edit: just saw the link so presumably yes.

I was not referring to high school students but uni students working in cafes etc. which are the businesses and employees that need shorter shift flexibility.

 

[drsmithy]

And has this been legislated yet?

Edit: just saw the link so presumably yes.

I was not referring to high school students but uni students working in cafes etc. which are the businesses and employees that need shorter shift flexibility.

As I said earlier, I remember being a uni student, and I struggle to see how a three hour shift would present a problem.

I question the argument there are many students actually asking for shifts shorter than three hours.

 

[amaroo]

Income tax is tiered according to income. The PHI rebate was not tiered. It was a flat rebate for all incomes.

IIRC - if you didn't have PHI you got slugged according to your income. .

Tax, levies, rebates - they are all the same!

I suppose, if you don't earn sufficient - you are none the wiser

 

[drsmithy]

I would suggest you review 'Medicare Levy Surcharge' here: Medicare levy surcharge | Australian Taxation Office

While you are correct that it is not income tax per se, it is levied on taxable income by the tax office. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

Are you arguing against progressive taxation in principle ?

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Are you arguing against progressive taxation in principle ?

In relation to special purpose levies, yes; marginal tax rates, no.

I have read some interesting articles around the simplicity and fairness of flat tax regimes, however. Not sure how they would work in practicality. Can anyone name a country that has one?

 

[medhead]

I would suggest you review 'Medicare Levy Surcharge' here: http://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-levy/Medicare-levy-surcharge/

While you are correct that it is not income tax per se, it is levied on taxable income by the tax office. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

I am not saying anything about income tax. Suggest you direct your comments at amaroo. I'm certainly not saying anything about something being a tax or otherwise.

I am simply saying that those people (not you) who wish to claim self responsibility for their financial well being are on dodgy ground to then demand welfare payments.

However, progressive removal of welfare is entirely consistent with progressive taxation. Something the amaroo seems to be denying.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

As I said earlier, I remember being a uni student, and I struggle to see how a three hour shift would present a problem.

I question the argument there are many students actually asking for shifts shorter than three hours.

Sometimes the business needs the flexibility too, although I can't imagine how you could comprehend that.

 

[serfty]

[MOD HAT (ON)]

Please refrain from abusing other members, attack a topic, do not attack another member.

Some posts have been pruned - Further violation will result in stronger sanction.

[/MOD HAT (OFF)]

 

[straitman]

Some 90%-odd of boat arrivals are found to be "genuine refugees". Substantially more than those arriving by plane.

Please quote and source the relevant articles.

I believe you are not even close with those numbers.

 

[drsmithy]

Sometimes the business needs the flexibility too, although I can't imagine how you could comprehend that.

Fairly easily, given evidence and a sound argument.

 

[drsmithy]

Please quote and source the relevant articles.

I believe you are not even close with those numbers.

http://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/bn/sp/asylumfacts.pdf
http://www.asrc.org.au/media/documents/myths-facts-solutions-info-apr-2011.pdf
Overwhelming majority of boat arrivals deemed to be refugees

There's also the "common sense" aspect.

 

[medhead]

It is very simple: it is invalid for someone to proclaim their belief in "working hard to get ahead", being the self made person, but then scream blue murder when the government cuts off welfare for those earning in the top 10% or more of income.

As for the comments about my income and what I have experienced. Talk about class warfare. "I don't know because I don't earn enough"? A ridiculous comment that completely destroys any credibility of the person spewing such elitist drivel.

Not least because the comment is sadly mistaken about what I earn and what I have experienced.

 

[drsmithy]

The next generation has a zero responsibility, entitlement mentality. Luckily there are people who still believe that the individual is responsible for their own individual outcomes.

Also, if you want to see what real entitlement mentality looks like, the outrage generated from addressing the decades-old FBT rort on salary-packaged vehicles provides an excellent example. I'm willing to bet most of the people yelling about that weren't "next generation".

 

[Pukka]

Re entitlements. Pyne meet with members of the 'scrap the cap' alliance formed to protest capping of self-education expenses. At least one of those present left the meeting with the impression that Pyne would advocate for the cap to be removed from the savings / cuts made by a future Coalition government. Hockey later clarified that the self education cap would remain in the interest of balancing the budget. At least in this area the Coalition seems willing to work against the narrow interest of its constituents. Re the cap as proposed: it will have some very unfortunate unintended side effects. Surgical trainees for example will be shelling out in excess of $10000 per year in after tax dollars merely to continue training. I have no problem with examining the eligibility of some of the more overt rorts currently occurring via this deduction. Eg I believe the Qld Bar Association has held a course in Barcelona and the Qld AMA will hold a meeting this year in Santiago Chile, both with predominantly Australian speakers and a strong social program.

Well I can tell you in the last 3 years I've been on courses in Whistler, coughet, Hong Kong and Waikiki.

Can't seem to find any local lectures that interest me

They do say travel broadens the mind.

One mans idea of a "rort" is another mans idea of continuing professional education

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

It's wonderful to see there are a handful of people on this thread that like paying more tax!

You just need to look at the infrastructure investment that's being superbly executed by the current government to see those tax dollars hard at work... Oh, hang on...

The blanket FBT rule for salaried employees was indeed very generous, but I'd suggest has supported the car industry jobs for some time. That being said, I won't mourn the loss, but the loss of jobs that will result is very disappointing.

In reference to government cutting 'welfare' for those in the top 10%, I think the numbers are a little off, as the PHI changes affected a much larger % from memory, including many firmly in the middle income bracket.

 

[drsmithy]

It's wonderful to see there are a handful of people on this thread that like paying more tax!

I don't know anyone who "likes" paying more tax.

I do know people who are cognizant of the fact it's required for a civilised society, that Australia is a relatively low-taxing country (most likely too low, though not by much), and thus don't spend much time whinging about tax.

 

[medhead]

It's wonderful to see there are a handful of people on this thread that like paying more tax!

You just need to look at the infrastructure investment that's being superbly executed by the current government to see those tax dollars hard at work... Oh, hang on...

The blanket FBT rule for salaried employees was indeed very generous, but I'd suggest has supported the car industry jobs for some time. That being said, I won't mourn the loss, but the loss of jobs that will result is very disappointing.

In reference to government cutting 'welfare' for those in the top 10%, I think the numbers are a little off, as the PHI changes affected a much larger % from memory, including many firmly in the middle income bracket.

No one said anything about paying more tax!

The infrastructure spending by this government is certainly better than that of the previous government. What plans does the next government have for infrastructure spending?

The 90% percentile of household income is $1448 per week disposable income. I assume that's after tax. An annualised $75000. Info from the ABS, 1301.0 year book Australia 2012, household income. I'm not typing in the full link on the AFF app.

There is also table 1 at canstar.com.au/opinions/median-Australian-income/ It shows the 95%percentile at $95000 for a single person, $141000 for a couple only. Higher again for singles/families with children - $151k and $198k.

The PHI rebate tapers from $88k for singles and $176k for families. Cuts out at $136k for singles and $272k for families. Overall, well into the top 10% of income earners.

 

[drron]

I don't know anyone who "likes" paying more tax.

I do know people who are cognizant of the fact it's required for a civilised society, that Australia is a relatively low-taxing country (most likely too low, though not by much), and thus don't spend much time whinging about tax.

Well I am quite sad that my BAS payment this month is only 3 figures.

 

[amaroo]

It's wonderful to see there are a handful of people on this thread that like paying more tax!

I like that line Kerry Packer used when questioned by a parliamentary inquiry

For me - I have no interest either way on the FBT - in fact I've posted that Gov assistance should be pulled further and the massive GOV subsidies to these very large off-shore corporations should cease ASAP.

In regards to PHI - tax changes including rebates, levies, etc come & go. Like everything in life - good planning can result in good savings.......pre-paying 18 months of PHI was a good decision and I hope all tax payers took advantage of the legislated tax rules