Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[amaroo]

Deal with the CFMEU much?

I doubt it

 

[drsmithy]

The next generation has a zero responsibility, entitlement mentality.

Rubbish. The "next generation" just want the "entitlements" enjoyed by previous generations and the prosperity they have engendered.

Luckily there are people who still believe that the individual is responsible for their own individual outcomes.

Yes. Plenty of people out there believe the "self made man" fantasy.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Rubbish. The "next generation" just want the "entitlements" enjoyed by previous generations and the prosperity they have engendered.


Yes. Plenty of people out there believe the "self made man" fantasy.

Ok, you've made your delusions official.

You are clearly entirely out of touch, or are a 20-something with a sense of entitlement like that to which I refer.

Some of us are quite successful 'self made men', who didn't grow up with privileged backgrounds and built something from nothing.

The difference between you and I is that I take full responsibility for my lot in life, I don't outsource that to others.

 

[medhead]

.
The difference between you and I is that I take full responsibility for my lot in life, I don't outsource that to others.

Oh yeah? So if I bother to dig up your comments about the private health insurance rebate we'll find you taking full responsibility and not expecting the government to pay for your health insurance?

 

[amaroo]

Oh yeah? So if I bother to dig up your comments about the private health insurance rebate we'll find you taking full responsibility and not expecting the government to pay for your health insurance?

What a load of rubbish!

However, great post for a stir

 

[medhead]

What a load of rubbish!

However, great post for a stir

Not a stir. It's called a question and it's a very important question. I will discount lectures about self responsibility from people who cracked the sads about limits being placed on the phi rebate. I don't know if comeflywithme did that at all. Hence the question. But expecting the government to pay for health insurance doesn't seem like taking responsibility for one's self.

 

[drron]

I said underemployment. People who want to work more but can't. A far more useful measurement than the absurd unemployment percentage, where an hour of work a week counts as "employed".

Totally agree.

For all the jawboning and rhetoric, you can barely see daylight between the economic policies of Liberals and Labor.

Agree again

The point remains. If you want to be able to only give people a few hours work at a time with low pay and no security, then they're going to be tight-fisted. You can't want people to have less job security, then lament when they behave like people with no job security.

Two different problems here.What you say is fine when thinking those with no other income or study.
However for those older secondary students or those in tertiary study 4 hours is often not appropriate-for the employer and employee.Should be some sort of compromise though difficult to see how it would be done.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Another statement I agree with.

Businesses have had a fantastic run for 20-odd years with pretty much everything going their way. No-one with an ounce of common sense should have expected it to last forever.

Though the increase share of profits and favourable IR laws have mainly gone to big business rather than small businesses-and I mean really small.

Then I think you're drawing a rather long bow.

Rubbish. The "next generation" just want the "entitlements" enjoyed by previous generations and the prosperity they have engendered.

Again in total agreement.I come into contact with a lot of younger citizens starting out their careers as well as teaching medical students.Very few that have an inflated entitlement syndrome.it is more true to say my generation(baby boomers)have been very selfish and look like leaving following generations to pay for all our entitlements.

Yes. Plenty of people out there believe the "self made man" fantasy.

There are many but certainly a smaller number than those who think they are.
Unfortunately there are many who for one reason or another do not have the opportunity to be self made.
And no drsmithy there is no full moon tonight!

 

[quokka77]

Re entitlements. Pyne meet with members of the 'scrap the cap' alliance formed to protest capping of self-education expenses. At least one of those present left the meeting with the impression that Pyne would advocate for the cap to be removed from the savings / cuts made by a future Coalition government. Hockey later clarified that the self education cap would remain in the interest of balancing the budget. At least in this area the Coalition seems willing to work against the narrow interest of its constituents. Re the cap as proposed: it will have some very unfortunate unintended side effects. Surgical trainees for example will be shelling out in excess of $10000 per year in after tax dollars merely to continue training. I have no problem with examining the eligibility of some of the more overt rorts currently occurring via this deduction. Eg I believe the Qld Bar Association has held a course in Barcelona and the Qld AMA will hold a meeting this year in Santiago Chile, both with predominantly Australian speakers and a strong social program.

 

[drsmithy]

Ok, you've made your delusions official.

You are clearly entirely out of touch, or are a 20-something with a sense of entitlement like that to which I refer.

Well into my 30s. Have only spent about five weeks unemployed since I turned 18.

Are you seriously going to try previous generations haven't received greater "entitlements" than current ?

Because you would struggle to find any generation in history that has had more laid at their feet than the boomers (and to a lesser extent, Gen X).

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Not a stir. It's called a question an it's a very important question. I will discount lectures about self responsibility from people who cracked the dads about limits being placed on the phi rebate. I don't know if comeflywithme did that at all. Hence the question. But expecting the government to pay for health insurance doesn't seem like taking responsibility for one's self.

It's a fair question, but my comment was more observation than lecture. A lecture infers something can be learned.

I do believe the rebate did take the pressure off the public health sector for those who were on the cusp of whether or not they can afford it. The cost to the public purse was quite minimal yet I'm certain that if a number of those people revert to the public system, the overall cost is much higher. For me, I can afford it. The stick in the extra Medicare levy however, infers that those more well off should pay more as a percentage of income which I object to.

The same arguments are made over funding to independent schools. Not every child at a private or independent school comes from a household with a $300k income. Many families struggle to be able to afford this.

I don't know about cracking the 'dads', but I'm guessing you're referring up cracking the 'sads', of which doesn't seem like my style.

 

[amaroo]

Not a stir. It's called a question and it's a very important question. I will discount lectures about self responsibility from people who cracked the sads about limits being placed on the phi rebate. I don't know if comeflywithme did that at all. Hence the question. But expecting the government to pay for health insurance doesn't seem like taking responsibility for one's self.

Well, why doesn't everyone pay the highest tax rate? The argument is false, silly and a total distraction........thats why it's a stir!

 

[drsmithy]

Two different problems here.What you say is fine when thinking those with no other income or study.
However for those older secondary students or those in tertiary study 4 hours is often not appropriate-for the employer and employee.Should be some sort of compromise though difficult to see how it would be done.

Older secondary students are already excused from the minimum in reasonable situations (ie: after-school work).

I remember being a tertiary student, and I struggle to think of how fitting 4 hour shifts into my schedule would have been a problem. Or, indeed, why I would want to have done less at a time. Nor, thinking back to the jobs my peers had, can I imagine them feeling much differently.

A "compromise" is pretty simple for the example being given - an exception to the minimum for full-time students.

 

[medhead]

It's a fair question, but my comment was more observation than lecture. A lecture infers something can be learned.

I do believe the rebate did take the pressure off the public health sector for those who were on the cusp of whether or not they can afford it. The cost to the public purse was quite minimal yet I'm certain that if a number of those people revert to the public system, the overall cost is much higher. For me, I can afford it. The stick in the extra Medicare levy however, infers that those more well off should pay more as a percentage of income which I object to.

The same arguments are made over funding to independent schools. Not every child at a private or independent school comes from a household with a $300k income. Many families struggle to be able to afford this.

I don't know about cracking the 'dads', but I'm guessing you're referring up cracking the 'sads', of which doesn't seem like my style.

The phi rebate was a bit different to school funding, it that the rebate was removed for those on the higher incomes, only. (That's not a judgment about whether they got the cutoff correct or not). I can't think of a way to remove school funding from income earners on $300k+.

I've corrected the dads bit and some of the other grammar/spelling mistakes. Damn autocorrect and no proof reading. In correcting it, I realise the ideas were a bit mixed up. Specifically I wasn't saying you cracked the sads, I don't know what your position was in this and it's not worth bothering to look up. It was more a reference to others who have cracked the sads over the phi rebate cap. For mine self responsibility means paying for health insurance if you want it and can afford it, so I was just stealing your theme.

 

[medhead]

Well, why doesn't everyone pay the highest tax rate? The argument is false, silly and a total distraction........thats why it's a stir!

Hey? That's a totally bizarre analogy. I only see one false silly and distracting argument. Income tax is nothing like the phi rebate.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

The phi rebate was a bit different to school funding, it that the rebate was removed for those on the higher incomes, only. (That's not a judgment about whether they got the cutoff correct or not). I can't think of a way to remove school funding from income earners on $300k+.

I've corrected the dads bit and some of the other grammar/spelling mistakes. Damn autocorrect and no proof reading. In correcting it, I realise the ideas were a bit mixed up. Specifically I wasn't saying you cracked the sads, I don't know what your position was in this and it's not worth bothering to look up. It was more a reference to others who have cracked the sads over the phi rebate cap. For mine self responsibility means paying for health insurance if you want it and can afford it, so I was just stealing your theme.

The rebate was removed, and a punitive increase to the Medicare levy introduced, so they cannot be viewed in isolation.

It's a similar argument that those on the left make about private school funding, hence my reference.

 

[medhead]

Older secondary students are already excused from the minimum in reasonable situations (ie: after-school work).

I remember being a tertiary student, and I struggle to think of how fitting 4 hour shifts into my schedule would have been a problem. Or, indeed, why I would want to have done less at a time. Nor, thinking back to the jobs my peers had, can I imagine them feeling much differently.

A "compromise" is pretty simple for the example being given - an exception to the minimum for full-time students.

4 hour shifts are a hassle for high school children. Pretty hard to fit in a 4 hour shift between 3:30 and 5:30.

 

[amaroo]

Hey? That's a totally bizarre analogy. I only see one false silly and distracting argument. Income tax is nothing like the phi rebate.

Taxation rules are the same. Income tax, rebates - the lot!

Suggesting that someone is taking a sly option claiming the PHI rebate - is like saying the tax rates are wrong.

 

[drsmithy]

4 hour shifts are a hassle for high school children. Pretty hard to fit in a 4 hour shift between 3:30 and 5:30.

High school children have a 1.5hr minimum.

The actual minimum for casual employees is also three hours, not four.

 

[medhead]

Taxation rules are the same. Income tax, rebates - the lot!

Suggesting that someone is taking a sly option claiming the PHI rebate - is like saying the tax rates are wrong.

That's not want I said at all, nothing about a sly option. No wonder your argument is ludicrous. It about disingenuous claims of self responsibility if also attacking the ALP for capping the phi rebate. It's about the claiming to take self responsibility for your welfare, but then demanding the government to pay for your private health insurance. That's not self responsibility.

But now for your ludicrous connection to income tax. Income tax is tiered according to income. The PHI rebate was not tiered. It was a flat rebate for all incomes. I'm making a point about the rebate now being capped according to income just like income tax. I am not saying everyone at all incomes should get the phi rebate. So no I am absolutely not saying that everyone should pay the same tax rate.

Basically besides totally missing my point about the dichotomy between being self responsible and also demanding welfare. Your little link to income tax is completely false.

 

[medhead]

High school children have a 1.5hr minimum.

The actual minimum for casual employees is also three hours, not four.

Which was only a recent change and subject to some discussion.