Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Hvr]

So after wading through all that tripe that the new treasurer was spouting I have found a bright spot. He has deferred the limit in self education expenses (to $2000pa) by a year.

I think it's time to get some serious education done this year, I'm thinking Vegas, Vail and Waikiki

Seems to prove the point the new treasurer was making.

 

[Pukka]

Seems to prove the point the new treasurer was making.

No it's all justified the certificates say so

 

[quokka77]

No it's all justified the certificates say so

Well, I will personally benefit from this decision (to the tune of approx $5000).

However I do think there needs to be some examination of what is eligible under this deduction item. For example: I think local professional body training, membership fees, books and journal subscriptions should be exempt.

Overseas conferences which fail the "junket test" (eg Australian speakers, mainly Australian audience, topics of interest to an Australian audience only, but held overseas for the interest of promoting holidays and social events) should not be deductible. This could be relatively easily decided by a small committee in the Tax Office, with obvious rorts excluded as they arise.

 

[cove]

Qookka77 don't worry about trip junkets. Our Government has spent $200 billion more than they had to spend then told us it was ok. A couple of billion won't be a problem then will it?

 

[drsmithy]

Overseas conferences which fail the "junket test" (eg Australian speakers, mainly Australian audience, topics of interest to an Australian audience only, but held overseas for the interest of promoting holidays and social events) should not be deductible. This could be relatively easily decided by a small committee in the Tax Office, with obvious rorts excluded as they arise.

The other "obvious" way to detect rorts being if the claimed length of stay is, say, three weeks for a two day conference.

I've done a couple of overseas educational courses myself, on my own dime, in parallel with holidays. My accountant advised I would only be able to claim the proportion of the flights, hotel stays, etc, that were relevant to the course itself, which I duly did. Apparently I'm too honest and should have instead tax-deducted all the flight costs plus several weeks of hotel costs for a couple of days of actual "educational" content, like people here seem to be advocating.

 

[quokka77]

Yes, you fail the Kerry Packer test (don't give the Government a cent more than you have to, even if it means moving your company to the Solomon Islands for a while). Perhaps you will also lose the James Packer game (he who dies with the most money wins). Nevertheless at some stage we must all choose what we think is morally acceptable. Above a certain minimum, it won't buy you happiness, and you certainly can't take it with you. That's it for the philosophical musings for the moment. I think the Libs are back out to $1.35 the win. Still can't see Kev hauling this one out of the fire. It'll be Liberals and Nationals for at least 3 years I believe.

 

[quokka77]

Qookka77 don't worry about trip junkets. Our Government has spent $200 billion more than they had to spend then told us it was ok. A couple of billion won't be a problem then will it?

they could start with all the thinly veiled political advertising being pumped out as "government education campaigns". It's very tacky and they really shouldn't be allowed to do it in the 6 months preceding an election.

 

[Isochronous]

"Business" hates any Labor government purely on principle.

That's not true, Heather Sellout of AIG fame is a Rudd acolyte.

This bank tax reminds me of Menzies beating Chifley in 1949 campaigning against bank nationalisation and communism. I think Tony Abbott can reprise that campaign this year.

 

[Pukka]

The other "obvious" way to detect rorts being if the claimed length of stay is, say, three weeks for a two day conference.

I've done a couple of overseas educational courses myself, on my own dime, in parallel with holidays. My accountant advised I would only be able to claim the proportion of the flights, hotel stays, etc, that were relevant to the course itself, which I duly did. Apparently I'm too honest and should have instead tax-deducted all the flight costs plus several weeks of hotel costs for a couple of days of actual "educational" content, like people here seem to be advocating.

Well personally I usually arrive a day early and leave a day late. I think it's good to prepare and wind down. I would never stay an extra week and claim it all that's just asking for trouble.

People claim all sorts of things on their tax returns that seem like a good idea at the time until they get audited.

The bottom line is that you can't define something as a rort just because its in the Maldives and has an Australian speaker ( you might think it is but thats different) and if they changed the rules I'm pretty sure they would find a local guy to speak.

The government are the ones that bang on about regulating professions and continuing professional education etc so in reality they spawned this whole industry.

We're all just following Kevin 747's lead

 

[Pukka]

Qookka77 don't worry about trip junkets. Our Government has spent $200 billion more than they had to spend then told us it was ok. A couple of billion won't be a problem then will it?

And in reality these trips are not costing the government billions.

In the general scope of things these are the 5c down the back of the sofa but maybe they need that now!

 

[Pukka]

Yes, you fail the Kerry Packer test (don't give the Government a cent more than you have to, even if it means moving your company to the Solomon Islands for a while). Perhaps you will also lose the James Packer game (he who dies with the most money wins). Nevertheless at some stage we must all choose what we think is morally acceptable. Above a certain minimum, it won't buy you happiness, and you certainly can't take it with you. That's it for the philosophical musings for the moment. I think the Libs are back out to $1.35 the win. Still can't see Kev hauling this one out of the fire. It'll be Liberals and Nationals for at least 3 years I believe.

LIbs 1.30 to win

Greens 1.50 to get 0 seats

Palmer 1.18 to get 0 seats

Independents 1.45 to get 1 seat

Pauline Hanson 1.02 not to win a senate seat

All very reassuring really

 

[amaroo]

That's not true, Heather Sellout of AIG fame is a Rudd acolyte.
.

The bar for appointment to the Reserve Bank of Australia has been set far too low......

 

[medhead]

Well, I will personally benefit from this decision (to the tune of approx $5000).

However I do think there needs to be some examination of what is eligible under this deduction item. For example: I think local professional body training, membership fees, books and journal subscriptions should be exempt.

I'm not sure why you'd put membership fees, books and journals in as self education. Books and journals in particular being key tools of my professional to be used in performing my work, even if they are first acquired for training. I have in the past run a depreciation schedule for a professional library. Journals, of course, should be deducted immediately given their time limited nature, IMO

I also put in conferences are work related travel not self-education. I'm not sure about professional body training, but all the travel I did to obtain accreditation was put in as work related travel.

Overseas conferences which fail the "junket test" (eg Australian speakers, mainly Australian audience, topics of interest to an Australian audience only, but held overseas for the interest of promoting holidays and social events) should not be deductible. This could be relatively easily decided by a small committee in the Tax Office, with obvious rorts excluded as they arise.

It's not that easy, each individual taxpayer would have to be audited. Our tax system is based on honesty, in that we can claim whatever we wish with validity of claims only being tested if audited. A small committee couldn't really deny a claim, after going through 5 million tax returns, without allowing the taxpayer to justify the expenses claimed.

The other "obvious" way to detect rorts being if the claimed length of stay is, say, three weeks for a two day conference.

I've done a couple of overseas educational courses myself, on my own dime, in parallel with holidays. My accountant advised I would only be able to claim the proportion of the flights, hotel stays, etc, that were relevant to the course itself, which I duly did. Apparently I'm too honest and should have instead tax-deducted all the flight costs plus several weeks of hotel costs for a couple of days of actual "educational" content, like people here seem to be advocating.

I would have claimed all the airfares on the principle that the only reason I travelled was because of the educational course. In fact I attended a conference a few years back that involved 1 week of conference and 3 weeks total away. I claimed the full airfares, and expenses for the one week of the conference. Simply because I would not (absolutely not) have purchased the airfare for the other 2 weeks of travel. No conference = no travel. My accountant at the time accept that justification.

 

[Pukka]

My accountant at the time accept that justification.

I like the sound of your accountant doesn't sound too pedantic.

My accountant did actually say to me if it changes we'll just put conferences through as business travel so in reality it's probably too hard to enforce.

 

[Skyring]

Well personally I usually arrive a day early and leave a day late. I think it's good to prepare and wind down. I would never stay an extra week and claim it all that's just asking for trouble.

Perhaps off-topic, but I'm putting together a trip for October based on a conference in Barcelona. I think one full day between arrival and conference start is justified, given that you have to allow for delays, jet-lag, transfers, all the "friction" of modern travel.

If all goes well, it's a day of sight-seeing. If not, well we've all been there. You don't want to miss any of the conference because you're groggy or not actually present, or you are stressed over missing luggage or whatever.

Contrariwise, I'm hard pressed to justify time after the convention. The thing's over, and unless you can run two of these things together, there's no reason to hang around.

Having said that, there's always the possibility of arranging things so that the most direct route home is not the way actually taken. Taking the first flight out after the closing address may leave you at the mercy of cabdrivers or whatever. You may need to wait a day before the next connection. And if there is a difference in airfare, then why not take a longer and more indirect route home?

If the fastest trip home gets you back on a Friday lunchtime, you aren't going to be much good for work on Friday arvo. Might as well have a day or so extra on the way home, aiming for a bright and rested Monday start.

 

[Pukka]

My accountant at the time accept that justification.

I like the sound of your accountant doesn't sound too pedantic.

My accountant did actually say to me if it changes we'll just put conferences through as business travel so in reality it's probably too hard to enforce.

 

[medhead]

Perhaps off-topic, but I'm putting together a trip for October based on a conference in Barcelona. I think one full day between arrival and conference start is justified, given that you have to allow for delays, jet-lag, transfers, all the "friction" of modern travel.

If all goes well, it's a day of sight-seeing. If not, well we've all been there. You don't want to miss any of the conference because you're groggy or not actually present, or you are stressed over missing luggage or whatever.

Contrariwise, I'm hard pressed to justify time after the convention. The thing's over, and unless you can run two of these things together, there's no reason to hang around.

Having said that, there's always the possibility of arranging things so that the most direct route home is not the way actually taken. Taking the first flight out after the closing address may leave you at the mercy of cabdrivers or whatever. You may need to wait a day before the next connection. And if there is a difference in airfare, then why not take a longer and more indirect route home?

If the fastest trip home gets you back on a Friday lunchtime, you aren't going to be much good for work on Friday arvo. Might as well have a day or so extra on the way home, aiming for a bright and rested Monday start.

I have a rule of avoiding travel on weekends or days that I'm not on duty. In effect that means half travel in my time is acceptable. A five 5 conference means at least a 1.5 weeks away. Depar Thursday night/Friday day. Return the following monday. For Barcelona that means arriving in europe on Saturday and getting back to Oz Wednesday morning. Wednesday's written off on sleep/recovery.

I like the sound of your accountant doesn't sound too pedantic.

My accountant did actually say to me if it changes we'll just put conferences through as business travel so in reality it's probably too hard to enforce.

That was actually the useless accountant that I dumped because I was doing all the work, all they had to do was copy numbers out of my spreadsheet and they kept making mistakes.

 

[eastwest101]

That's the theory.

In Australia, however, as in other countries with their equivalents, they often end up getting used as an alternative to training local staff, and to suppress local wages. Or just flat-out rorted by using inaccurate job descriptions to artificially exclude local applicants.

You also forgot to mention the requirement to advertise for vacant positions before using someone on a 457 visa, the FOI request about the evidence of advertising or seeking candidates for the position of John McTernan brought up a curious lack of any evidence that the position was advertised locally. Presumably Mr McTernan then approved the overblown rhetoric used by some of the Gillard government ministers defending their justification to changes to the 457 Visa scheme.

 

[Simo]

FBT will be another battle ground.

We will change our structure of company vehicles once current leases expires on them.

We will not be replacing cars early so no new cars this year if the rule stays or next year either.

 

[cove]

Rudd wants to go to the G20 so with that being Sept 5 and 6 the date of the election remains uncertain.
The FBT thingy does not affect us as all our cars are on log books and have been since that tax was invented.
Ruddy needs a bit of time to whitewash his $250 billion spending spree from last time when he declared that he was a fiscal conservative then spent faster than Whitlam ever could.
He made Gough Whitlam look conservative!