Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[drsmithy]

I never said bookies are a great way to run a country but in my experience people who are "putting their money where their mouth is" usually have a better grasp on the reality of the situation rather than someone who merely has a wish list.

The reality is Kev isn't actually up to it this time and TA despite his gaffs is miles ahead and the Greens are history.

If your only interest is who is most likely to win why are you bothering to post in this discussion ?

 

[Pushka]

The polls state pretty clearly what women think of Abbot.

Personally I don't know a single woman under 50 who can stand him.

Thought I'm a little unclear why someone needs to be a woman to find someone sexist. Maybe it's a bit like not being able to comment on small businesses unless you've run one ?

I'd like to know the current statistics. I couldn't find anything.

Men assume that women find something sexist when they may not. And yes actually, if you've never run a small business, or had a close relationship with someone who has, then you have no idea. Might think you do but you don't.

I think you need to spread your group of friends. I know women who are fine with him and they dislike others interpretation of his apparent misogynist behaviours. Others don't like him. A mixed bag. Real life.

 

[amaroo]

The polls state pretty clearly what women think of Abbot.

Citation required!

 

[amaroo]

Yep. Bookies are a great way to run a country.

True - they don't lose money like the ALP does!

 

[drsmithy]

I'd like to know the current statistics. I couldn't find anything.

Abbot polling well amongst women - especially young women - would be a _massive_ change in "statistics".

Men assume that women find something sexist when they may not.

Men assume women don't find something sexist when they do.

It swings both ways.

However, I'd lay down a hundred bucks in a second on a bet there are more women who feel sexism is a problem than men.

And yes actually, if you've never run a small business, or had a close relationship with someone who has, then you have no idea. Might think you do but you don't.

Why ?

I think you need to spread your group of friends. I know women who are fine with him and they dislike others interpretation of his apparent misogynist behaviours. Others don't like him. A mixed bag. Real life.

Of the handful of women I know who will vote Liberals, all think Abbot is an outdated, sexist bully. His RU486 shenanigans, in particular, tend to be something they remember.

Even amongst the men I know who'd vote Liberal, all consider him a least-worst option.

 

[Pushka]

Abbot polling well amongst women - especially young women - would be a _massive_ change in "statistics".

Men assume women don't find something sexist when they do.

It swings both ways.

However, I'd lay down a hundred bucks in a second on a bet there are more women who feel sexism is a problem than men.

Why ?

Of the handful of women I know who will vote Liberals, all think Abbot is an outdated, sexist bully. His RU486 shenanigans, in particular, tend to be something they remember.

Even amongst the men I know who'd vote Liberal, all consider him a least-worst option.

As I said, I'd like to see the statistics about female voters. Not just vague comments.

I don't make any assumptions about what men find sexist. How can I?

Saying that people who never have, can understand the realities of running a small business is like saying I know how to build a house, even though I never have.

 

[Pushka]

Oops. Wrong thread.

 

[horseman]

The Greens want to spend more than $350 million to ban semi-automatic handguns and buy them back from their owners.

But the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (SSAA) said that would not affect the guns used by drug gangs for drive-by shootings in western Sydney.

Greens leader Christine Milne said gun violence could not be tackled without taking guns off the streets.

"We need strong action to reduce the number of handguns falling into the wrong hands. They have become the firearm of choice for criminals in Australia, especially in the drug trade and in gangs," she said in a statement.

Under the Greens plan, costed by the Parliamentary Budget Office at $351.5 million, semi-automatic handguns would be banned, with a 12-month amnesty and buyback.

SSAA chief executive Tim Bannister said drive-by shootings were predominantly a drug and gang problem, not a gun problem.

"This would be a buyback of legal firearms, not illegal firearms, so it still won't actually stop the firearms in the hands of criminals being utilised," he said.


So another Greens Policy that;

Will cost the taxpayer money.
Unfairly target those that actually contribute to society.
Have no negative impact on those doing the wrong thing.

Wish I could say I'm shocked.

 

[Hvr]

True - they don't lose money like the ALP does!

Some interesting quotes from SMH.

When the Howard government left office, net government debt had ''improved'' by 21.9 per cent of GDP (from 18.1 to -3.8 per cent of GDP).


So how did the Howard government do it? It was very simple, with a three-pronged approach to debt elimination:


■ A record high tax take - the Howard government was the highest taxing government in Australia's history.

■ Record low spending on infrastructure - the level of public construction work done as a percentage of GDP reached a record low under Howard.

■ A large-scale asset sale and privatisation program.
It was a simple formula that worked a treat from a political objective, yet it had little merit as a tool of economic policy management.



Had the Howard government not had the highest tax take in history and simply maintained its tax take at the level of the Hawke/Keating government and nothing else changed, net debt would have risen, not fallen. The difference in the tax to GDP ratio under Howard versus Hawke/Keating was a coughulative 19.2 per cent of GDP over the life of the Howard government.



In other words, a record tax take from households and business accounted for the elimination of net debt.

Read more: Simple formula to cut debt served us badly
​

Some other interesting facts from the same article:

Another point to note on the issue of the record of the Howard government in eliminating net government debt is the inconvenient fact that almost half the $96 billion Hawke/Keating Labor debt of 1996 was inherited by Hawke from the Fraser government during which time Howard was treasurer.


Indeed, net government debt was 7.5 per cent of GDP when the Hawke government came to power in 1983 and, for context, the Fraser government inherited zero net government debt from the Whitlam government. This means that all the government debt accumulation under the Fraser government was of its own making.

​

Yet we keep hearing about how bad the Whitlam government was? Yet they had no debt when they left office and the succeeding Fraser govt was wanton in its spending as was the Howard government.

The Howard government was the highest taxing government in modern history and paradoxically also introduced some incredible middle/high class welfare that still affects the budget to this day and when a responsible government tries to remove this welfare the rich and whiny scream like cut pigs. But still they want to remove benefits for genuinely poor people, such as the superannuation subsidy.

Tony Abbott was a minister in the Howard government, so we need to ask, what will he sell, how much will he raise taxes and how much more welfare will rich people receive? Oh and when will he announce WorkChoices MKII?

Finally, neither choice of potential PMs inspires me with confidence.

 

[Hvr]

<snip>


So another Greens Policy that;

Will cost the taxpayer money.
Unfairly target those that actually contribute to society.
Have no negative impact on those doing the wrong thing.

Wish I could say I'm shocked.

You had me until you wrote that SSAA members contribute to society. Aren't they the ones who like to shoot in national parks and somehow convinced the Liberal Premier of NSW to let them in exchange for legislation? Surely the SSAA are just people at the opposite end of the political spectrum to the Greens?

 

[medhead]

Will be interesting to see how he goes - I'll be sure to post the result given it's my electorate that he is trying to convince. FWIW I'm very happy that the LNP had the guts to say bugger off to it's biggest donor - the sand dunes of the coast are very pleased.

I'm happy for the dunes and all. He didn't mention that issue, but more about the process for kicking him out of the party. I think he had a fair point.

 

[drsmithy]

Tony Abbott was a minister in the Howard government, so we need to ask, what will he sell, how much will he raise taxes and how much more welfare will rich people receive? Oh and when will he announce WorkChoices MKII?

I'm not sure if Tony Abbot could be any more transparent about how he considers the Howard Government to be the best thing that ever happened to Australia.

 

[medhead]

I'm not sure if Tony Abbot could be any more transparent about how he considers the Howard Government to be the best thing that ever happened to Australia.

That's the problem really. Abbott will be 1996 all over again. Raise taxes, cut spending and that'll kill the economy. Recession on the way, with an abbott government.

 

[horseman]

You had me until you wrote that SSAA members contribute to society. Aren't they the ones who like to shoot in national parks and somehow convinced the Liberal Premier of NSW to let them in exchange for legislation? Surely the SSAA are just people at the opposite end of the political spectrum to the Greens?

Do be honest I'm not aware of the details of what you refer to, as I am not a hunter, as a pistol shooter we cannot hunt and can only partake in our sport at strictly controlled ranges. This greens policy is targeting licensed pistol owners who have to jump through many hoops in order to get involved in pistol shooting. None of us would risk this by using our pistols illegally. The people the greens need to be targeting are those who illegally own black market and smuggled pistols. Our town has 3 pistol clubs, between our 3 clubs we regularly have nationally arranged competitions which bring in competitors from all around Australia and the world. My club recently had a mid sized competition which is said to have brought in over $100 grand to our local economy for the particular weekend it was on. Things like this are happening every weekend all around the country. So as pistol shooters yes we do contribute to society.

 

[horseman]

For a small regional Center, this largely unadvertised event brought in a significant amount to our economy.

 

[Skyring]

That's the problem really. Abbott will be 1996 all over again. Raise taxes, cut spending and that'll kill the economy. Recession on the way, with an abbott government.

Given that there's maybe a dozen people reading this, what's your point?

Seriously. We live in a representative democracy. For three years we had Rudd sitting on his hands, afraid to do anything big. And then we had Gillard doing big things that were poorly thought out.

There was a continual lack of focus. Infighting and undermining. Nothing like good government.

Without acceptance of past mistakes, there is no promises we can believe that anything will differ in future. Drifting and disasters and divisions.

And now you claim to be, within yourself, the oracle of an Abbott government. I don't think you - or anyone else here - has that clarity looking into the future.

I think you are guessing, projecting your views onto a person - a team of people - who hold very different views in actuality.

I think that the voters, millions of them, will vote according to their own opinions, and we'll all accept the outcome.

Apart from a few who will run around wailing and whining because their team lost the final.

 

[Skyring]

Some interesting quotes from SMH.

Interesting. Whose opinion is that?

 

[amaroo]

Finally, neither choice of potential PMs inspires me with confidence.

My post was in reference to bookies! Not sure how yours links in with mine?

 

[amaroo]

He didn't mention that issue, but more about the process for kicking him out of the party. I think he had a fair point.

I don't - no surprise really.

 

[medhead]

Given that there's maybe a dozen people reading this, what's your point?

Seriously. We live in a representative democracy. For three years we had Rudd sitting on his hands, afraid to do anything big. And then we had Gillard doing big things that were poorly thought out.

There was a continual lack of focus. Infighting and undermining. Nothing like good government.

Without acceptance of past mistakes, there is no promises we can believe that anything will differ in future. Drifting and disasters and divisions.

And now you claim to be, within yourself, the oracle of an Abbott government. I don't think you - or anyone else here - has that clarity looking into the future.

I think you are guessing, projecting your views onto a person - a team of people - who hold very different views in actuality.

I think that the voters, millions of them, will vote according to their own opinions, and we'll all accept the outcome.

Apart from a few who will run around wailing and whining because their team lost the final.

And that is precisely the problem with abbott. He tells us nothing but 3 word catchphrases and leaves us to guess. The Howard government is a good indicator of what Abbott might do. There is also the fact that everyone, including the ALP, is telling us that taxes must increase and spending cut. To achieve his policy of "having a surplus", he must do those things. But then there is the dichotomy in abbott of also increasing and supporting middle and upper class welfare. At least the ALP has a track record. A track record of trying to balance the needs of those at the bottom and cutting unaffordable and wasteful middle class welfare. Have a big whinge about lossing you PHI rebate, but sad for you that is precisely what is required in the current economic environment. The fact that the LNP voters are howling so loudly about it does not mean it is wrong.

As I've said I have no team, unlike many here, I'm commenting about what we'll get following this election and comparing to what we're being sold. Perhaps you need to stop projecting your blind support of Abbott onto anyone who dares to mention his faults. The very fact that you cannot acknowledge his massive failings in the problem here.