Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

When Vaille resigned Oakeshott who was a popular state member resigned and was elected from memory on in excess of 60% of the popular vote. I agree that he was able to extract money out of a labor government on political terms to sandwall the electorate, that has definitely continued under this term of government.

To this I say good on you, regional areas are often poor cousins to the major cities, we are in the process as the largest regional area on the mid north coast of having a major hospital upgrade, we now have cancer clinics where before patients had to travel to either Newcastle or Sydney,we have a national party state member who wouldn't know which way is up and with the large majority the NSW state government holds, has delivered nothing but the party line.

IMO unless you live here and have seen the gains, it is a bit unfair to criticise a bloke who was thrust into the spotlight.

ivr, the thing is he got into a position of political influence and got some things done for you locally, so you perhaps are entitled to have a warm fuzzy feeling about him, but for everyone else outside the electorate who doesn't have much time for the current government or where they have taken the country he has done absolutely nothing other than prolong Julia and her crew and so there is actually very little for us to feel warm and fuzzy about towards him... And we are entitled to say thanks for nothing...

Entitled to your opinion if you talk to him he comes across as an intelligent genuine bloke. My thoughts he was not ready for the attention he got and despite the shock jock rhetoric he still has strong local support

On a personal level he might be quite a bloke, all pollies might, but they are not paid for us to enjoy a chat around the bbq, they are paid to perform and their decisions can directly impact our lives and prosperity and the future of the country for our children, on this basis i am not going to give people a pass just coz i might be happy to have a beer with them, its a bit of a performance based thing and they know it.. Its a pity when history comes a knocking on your door and your not up to it, if that is the case he won't be the first or last, but history often isn't very sympathetic to such people...

I'm not sure that i would give him the benefit of the doubt that he just got caught up in it all either, he has been in politics for a long time and knows how it works, i think there was a lot of political opportunism there that he thought he could at last play in the big leagues, the big leagues just didn't have much time for such a try hard... It didn't for single issue wanna be's like Wilke either and everyone with any sense knows you don't really let the Greens anywhere near important decisions, just throw them a few bones... He certainly knew pretty quickly that a lot of people outside his electorate (and probably inside his electorate) had little time for the lash up Govt but was utterly uninterested in listening and responding to their wishes... When you choose to go the "I know best" route, on your head be it...

In my opinion look to the results of your local member, not the political bulls#### or opinions of those who do not reside in your electorate.

It might be nice that you finally thought you were getting a bit of attention that you thought you were due... And that might be ok at a State level (where lets face only so much good or bad can come of it and its largely localised) to put your own electorate first and foremost, but the problem is at a national level while u might get a hospital or two locally, the party in power because of his decision might be leading the whole country up the garden path.. Me personally i would hope i would be more interested in if the Govt put in power could actually effectively govern than if i got a bit of pork locally... Those beds may not seem so important when everyone is paying off the debt forever, taxes are going up, services are being cut etc, etc because that numpty Swan is probably not up to the task... I tend to take a longer term view than what is happening in the here and now and in my own patch... Just me but i have never voted for anyone because i thought i would get something locally out of it...

No, no, no! He is obviously a devious scumbag because he supported THE WRONG SIDE. You are too easily fooled by the appearance of civility (as if that counts for anything in this ship of fools).

Moods was actually being facetious here and suggesting your portrayal of Oak****t was a lot fairer and balanced than us raving Lib loonies... ...

 

[drewbles]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

What a half wit, sawing precisely through the branch she's sitting on...

I guess you have to give her some amount of points for bald faced pot calling the kettle black stuff?!?!?

Or perhaps it was an ironic statement to highlight the stupidity of the federal liberal mantra against her. :?: :idea:

Just remember, Politicians assume that they say something and the world forgets. I'm surprised though, after I heard that public statement, that the media hasn't had a field day with it. Perhaps the long and drawn out election will take its toll afterall.

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

No, I couldn't find any evidence that justifcory is a recognised word anywhere from my Apple spell-check-thingy all the way back to my 1959 Edition Funk & Wagnall's, but

1. I understand what you are saying,
2. I agree with you, and
3. "bloviate" is such a great word, so perfectly describing the situation it more than makes up for the non-word.

Bonus Points for you! :mrgreen:

What's this 'justifcory' word?? Were you even searching on my spelling of it (self-justifcatory - although looking at it now it looks like another i could have gone in between the f and the c...)??? I think it was a pretty good word and should exist so i think i deserved bonus points for that as well!!!

Maybe i will write to Funk and Wagnall and see if i can have it included in the next edition...

 

[irv]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about him just stating a fact, neglected electorate to one that started to receiving the same benefits as some of the city electorates, so good on him for that. It is not a matter of getting attention it is a matter of getting a share of what the community is entitled to, the same as everyone else which is still neglected in other electorates.I wonder if the decision of Oakeshott & Windsor had gone the other way how Abbott would have dealt with the cards he was handed, that is one thing we can only guess at.

 

[Deleted member]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

I work in same building where Rob Oakeshott has his office.

Earlier I saw Rob Oakeshott sitting on the breakwall behind his office having his photo taken. When I went out for lunch one of his staff was outside carrying a media release and looking at the photos.

He said he would announce in mid March whether he would run again, be interesting given the attacks and the pressure what he does decide.

And this comes as a surprise to him?

 

[Deleted member]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about him just stating a fact, neglected electorate to one that started to receiving the same benefits as some of the city electorates, so good on him for that. It is not a matter of getting attention it is a matter of getting a share of what the community is entitled to, the same as everyone else which is still neglected in other electorates.I wonder if the decision of Oakeshott & Windsor had gone the other way how Abbott would have dealt with the cards he was handed, that is one thing we can only guess at.

The issue of getting stuff for your electorate is one thing, standing idly by and watching the systematic implementation of union back agenda is galling.
I didn't vote to have unions dictate how things will be, any more that having the Gina Rhineharts of this world bully their agenda either.
This government has played both sides of the fence and it has made for an overall poor result.
The mining tax is a good example. Kowtowing to big business while appeasing the greens and the unions. Result. No one really happy with the result , except a few of the biggest miners.

 

[Moody]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

.... Moods was actually being facetious here and suggesting your portrayal of Oak****t was a lot fairer and balanced than us raving Lib loonies... ...

Thanks for picking up on the sarcasm where ivr only saw another Lib looney making another execrable statement.

And they say that admitting your addiction is the first step on the road to recovery, so I haven't written you off yet a*senova. (Oops - my bad! Too much juvenile name calling on this thread. But don't fear - you can safely insult the elected leaders of this country who are all (mostly?) trying to do their best, but anonymous internet trolls are sacrosanct so a moderator will be along shortly.)

 

[TheEmu]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

What's this 'justifcory' word?? Were you even searching on my spelling of it (self-justifcatory - although looking at it now it looks like another i could have gone in between the f and the c...)??? I think it was a pretty good word and should exist so i think i deserved bonus points for that as well!!!

D'oh!
Never goes well when mis-spelling someone else's mis-spelt word for the purposes of mockery and derision (in the nicest possible way, of course!)
I think your karma just ran over my dogma…
It is good to get the i between the f and the c, though:
With the extra i, justificatory is indeed already in the Funk & Wagnall's: (adjective, derivative of justify)
Extra Bonus Points, then!

The Small Print:
TheEmu-issued Bonus Points have no cash value and may not be recognised by some merchants, airlines or credit card companies.
Or anyone else.
Written and Authorised by TheEmu2012

 

[Pushka]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

I believe it was in this forum a couple of days ago that Julia was described as being very personable and warm when working with people on issues etc but that the persona she displays when fronting Parliament/media/people is very very different. I think so anyway. Well, last night from sources who are very close to (any) Government, they confirmed exactly this - that in her professional dealings with people (as opposed to Groups of people) she is an extremely pleasant, helpful and warm person. I trust this source completely.

So I think it is a real shame that her public display is so very different to the person she naturally is.

 

[drron]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

Though Julia's mother says she has a bit of a temper and is ferocious in attack mode-

MOIRA GILLARD, MOTHER: When I think Julia is going to go on attack I feel rather sorry for Tony Abbott, in fact I feel rather sorry for anybody. When Julia makes up her mind usually she gets what she wants.
MOIRA GILLARD, MOTHER: Julia is very easy going but when something does upset her just look out. She gets into a temper just like a sleeping volcano.

These were first aired on Australian Story in 2006 and repeated on the 21/6/2010.
Australian Story - She Who Waits - Transcript

 

[Pushka]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

My mum would probably say the same about me.

My threshold for "stuff" is pretty high, but cross that threshold and there is blood!

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

D'oh!
Never goes well when mis-spelling someone else's mis-spelt word for the purposes of mockery and derision (in the nicest possible way, of course!)
I think your karma just ran over my dogma…
It is good to get the i between the f and the c, though:
With the extra i, justificatory is indeed already in the Funk & Wagnall's: (adjective, derivative of justify)
Extra Bonus Points, then!

The Small Print:
TheEmu-issued Bonus Points have no cash value and may not be recognised by some merchants, airlines or credit card companies.
Or anyone else.
Written and Authorised by TheEmu2012

Core blimey, lucky i followed that one up!!!

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

I believe it was in this forum a couple of days ago that Julia was described as being very personable and warm when working with people on issues etc but that the persona she displays when fronting Parliament/media/people is very very different. I think so anyway. Well, last night from sources who are very close to (any) Government, they confirmed exactly this - that in her professional dealings with people (as opposed to Groups of people) she is an extremely pleasant, helpful and warm person. I trust this source completely.

So I think it is a real shame that her public display is so very different to the person she naturally is.

As i stated earlier, at some level i imagine they are all half decent people, its probably hard to get into the people game of politics being a total prick (although i did work in a Minister's office once and the impression i got of the guy was that he was a bit of an officious prick dealing with his staff, but probably had the people's touch in formally running a pub i think and maybe out with the 'people', he also largely ended up sinking the then WA govt) I imagine the sometimes nasty game of politics also does attract the ambitious and climbers and can probably also change people into being adept at a bit of backstabbing and double dealing...

But by and large, like CEOs of big companies etc, they aren't judged on what a good bloke/sheila they are, not necessarily on how grand their vision of wanting to solve all the problems were, its on did they deliver and were they effective and how did they leave the State/Country for the next person to take over... Its also a wise politician that knows when to call it a day or that they have done all they can and go on their own terms, most have to be sent packing....

 

[Pushka]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

As i stated earlier, at some level i imagine they are all half decent people, its probably hard to get into the people game of politics being a total prick (although i did work in a Minister's office once and the impression i got of the guy was that he was a bit of an officious prick dealing with his staff, but probably had the people's touch in formally running a pub i think and maybe out with the 'people', he also largely ended up sinking the then WA govt) I imagine the sometimes nasty game of politics also does attract the ambitious and climbers and can probably also change people into being adept at a bit of backstabbing and double dealing...

But by and large, like CEOs of big companies etc, they aren't judged on what a good bloke/sheila they are, not necessarily on how grand their vision of wanting to solve all the problems were, its on did they deliver and were they effective and how did they leave the State/Country for the next person to take over... Its also a wise politician that knows when to call it a day or that they have done all they can and go on their own terms, most have to be sent packing....

I think it was a little more than just being a nice person, ( being a "nice" person would not rate a mention from my source, he isn't "into" nice) but rather that Julia was a highly effective person who works well with others. And did deliver on this particular issue. And that her behaviour was SUCH a contrast with her public figure as to be worthy of a comment.

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

Thanks for picking up on the sarcasm where ivr only saw another Lib looney making another execrable statement.

And they say that admitting your addiction is the first step on the road to recovery, so I haven't written you off yet a*senova. (Oops - my bad! Too much juvenile name calling on this thread. But don't fear - you can safely insult the elected leaders of this country who are all (mostly?) trying to do their best, but anonymous internet trolls are sacrosanct so a moderator will be along shortly.)

Your welcome Moods...

And i'm sure every word out of the mouths of Labor supports is sweet as honey eh... Except for that lady the other day who effectively told Julia to give her @rse a chance didn't she?? While we are talking about excreable statements...

And yes Moods, i think we have a reasonable measure of free speech to be able to say what we like in this country, Labor and Greens supporters certainly took advantage of it all during terrible Little Johnny Howard's terms so you know what goes around does come around some times, but sorry if because you don't happen to agree with it it falls into the trolling bucket, after all politics is often a passionate game and they hardly whisper sweet nothings at each other all day long, but i am glad that you haven't given up on me... yet...

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

I think it was a little more than just being a nice person, ( being a "nice" person would not rate a mention from my source, he isn't "into" nice) but rather that Julia was a highly effective person who works well with others. And did deliver on this particular issue. And that her behaviour was SUCH a contrast with her public figure as to be worthy of a comment.

I think Julia could probably be quite effective at delivering what she believes is the right thing, although i think she would be better at a minister level, or even a deputy level (as long as you didn't let her play with sharp things) She wouldn't be the first person that was good at doing a subordinate role, but didn't crack it in the top job where it often is not about how good you are doing what you like personaly, but about how much you can get out of all those around you, how you can motivate, encourage, discipline if needed, but get the best of all the different individuals and the collective...

And whether it was how she came to the top job, and if this fatally undermined her from the beggining, or she intrinsically lacks those character traits and skills, i don't think she has been a success in the top job... I don't think i am alone...

 

[Moody]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

Your welcome Moods...

And i'm sure every word out of the mouths of Labor supports is sweet as honey eh... Except for that lady the other day who effectively told Julia to give her @rse a chance didn't she?? While we are talking about excreable statements...

And yes Moods, i think we have a reasonable measure of free speech to be able to say what we like in this country, Labor and Greens supporters certainly took advantage of it all during terrible Little Johnny Howard's terms so you know what goes around does come around some times, but sorry if because you don't happen to agree with it it falls into the trolling bucket, after all politics is often a passionate game and they hardly whisper sweet nothings at each other all day long, but i am glad that you haven't given up on me... yet...

Howard had his good points and bad points, but his playing on people's fears of so called "unauthorised boat arrivals" was a low act and the plausible deniability exercise of "children overboard" showed that his lust for power knew no moral boundaries. The fact that he was finally dumped because his interest rate fallacy came back to haunt him was an abject case of being hoist by his own petard.

Anyway - as I stated before I have no direct knowledge of Tony and Rob, but in my opinion they took their new role seriously and made their decision to support Labour based on what they thought would be best for their electorates and the country. If you have proof that they are just power-hungry attention seekers then I am happy to hear it, but so far all the vitriol seems to be based purely on the fact that they didn't support Tony Abbott. Annoying for the people with a born to rule mentality, but hardly a reason to be hung, drawn and quatered.

So I am genuinely interested - what specifically (legislation-wise) have the independents negotiated that warrants such hate?

 

[drron]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

Quite frankly Moody most of the vitriol in this thread comes out of your words.You seem to be blind to it.
My objection to the "effectiveness"of the Independents is that the acheivements they have made for their electorates are because that was the price Julia was prepared to pay for their votes.
In the last Budget 7 of the 8 grants from the Regional Developement fund went to the electorates of Windsor,Oakeshott and Wilkie.
In the Disability pilot program 98% of the funds have gone to ALP,the Greens and Wilkies electorates.

So no matter what Oakeshott and Windsor have done in this term it is unlikely to happen again.

 

[casanovawa]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

Howard had his good points and bad points, but his playing on people's fears of so called "unauthorised boat arrivals" was a low act and the plausible deniability exercise of "children overboard" showed that his lust for power knew no moral boundaries. The fact that he was finally dumped because his interest rate fallacy came back to haunt him was an abject case of being hoist by his own petard.

Anyway - as I stated before I have no direct knowledge of Tony and Rob, but in my opinion they took their new role seriously and made their decision to support Labour based on what they thought would be best for their electorates and the country. If you have proof that they are just power-hungry attention seekers then I am happy to hear it, but so far all the vitriol seems to be based purely on the fact that they didn't support Tony Abbott. Annoying for the people with a born to rule mentality, but hardly a reason to be hung, drawn and quatered.

So I am genuinely interested - what specifically (legislation-wise) have the independents negotiated that warrants such hate?

Yes, Howard had his good points and bad points, and his opponents were vociferous in painting them all in as negative a light as could possibly done without any concern for giving the benefit of the doubt that Govts get caught up in situation out of their control and sometimes have to cobbble it together as they go along... Same with Afghanistan and Iraq etc... Whether you agree with that or not... We could discuss each of those if you wanted, not that there is a lot of point to it, but for all his so-called playing on the fears of Australian's about the boats coming, if his efforts were worthy of derision well they pail into insignificance with the hypocrisy and the total shamozzle that we have witnessed over the last 4-5 years of having gone full circle...

Having said all that i am still am a believer that our borders need to be protected and that a logical, well thought out migrant/refugee system that balances meeting our future needs and bringing unfortunates truly in need of protection and not just with big bank balances is much better than a free for all as has been the case over the last couple of years...

And no the vitriol is that they went against what they obviously knew was the will of the people and backed this Govt... Do you know what seminal legislation they were responsible for that changed all our lives?? i know they helped back Julia bringing that tax she lied to us all about?? But any way, I'm roughly assuming, with a small allowance for which words you want to use, that there can be a couple of logical reasons, or a combination of them, intially choosing to support this government and then continue to support them:

1. They wanted to play around in the heady environs of Govt and be taken somewhat more seriously because of their new found influence rather than just some anonymous independent warming a seat, so responding to a bit of their own ambition and ego - Ok, well i'm glad you got your play, did it fulfil all your visions of being a big deal and making your mark on the country? I don't know what good they actually did, do you think most of the electorate do (??) and will they be more remembered for keeping this Govt/circus in power than any good they did? Anyone with any common sense over that period must have felt some acute embarrassment and wonder what sort of nuthouse they had hitched their reputation too....

2. Being close to power and waving your influential vote got you some pork for your local electorate - Well i suppose it did, but what creditibility did you have to trade for that and did it do any larger good for the country and did it make you popular with your own voters? The country looks likely to decide that the Govt didn't deliver and could well turf it out in a landslide so the Australian electorate are going to give that a big fail, and it looks like you will struggle to hold your seat so you have hardly entranced your local voters with the pork... Looking like a double fail, which is hardly anything to hold your head up about is it? Or put on your resume?

3. You didn't much like your former associates and were happy to stick it to them a bit - well good on you for that

4. You genuinely thought you knew better than all the electorate what was best and were happy to play the king maker role rather than give it back to the people at any time over the last 3 years of what you would hardly call the most sane, reputable, effective, collegial attempt at governing - Ok, fine you can play that role, but as i said on your head be the results... I think the electorate has given this minority Govt low marks consistently throughout its tenure and its winding down towards the opportunity to have the say that it has been wanting but unable to have for that period.. Their choices will be the verdict i guess on whether they give the two independents a pass or a fail...

Just so i don't seem completely negative i have to say from what I have seen of Tony Burke (Bourke??) i think he is a fairly effective character that would probably be an asset to any Government... Fairly personable and likeable..

 

[Skyring]

Re: Where will you be election day (September 14th)

In the last Budget 7 of the 8 grants from the Regional Developement fund went to the electorates of Windsor,Oakeshott and Wilkie.
In the Disability pilot program 98% of the funds have gone to ALP,the Greens and Wilkies electorates.

So no matter what Oakeshott and Windsor have done in this term it is unlikely to happen again.

They won't get anything in this budget.

And the voters aren't stupid. They know that their independents aren't going to be sitting on a similar pot of gold next time round.

Because, if they don't work it out for themselves, the Coalition will let them know.

The independents are going to reap the reward for supporting a shambolic government their constituents didn't want.

Bit of a pity, really. Rural and regional electorates usually end up at the end of the line for benefits, because the real political power grows out of the cities - as we see in the Western Sydney circus. Even with a Coalition government, the Nats are tail-end charlie for exactly the same reason.