Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[medhead]

What is it with the power that the shoppies union have? They rule SA when Labor is installed and Australia too. Their recent deal on PH trading in the cbd in SA has meant that many establishments now close at 7pm on Christmas and NYE because they can't afford the extreme penalty rates enforced on them. So much for giving people extra payment for working those hours - many places closed so there was no work at all.

They are also extremely bizarre in their views. My wife has recently returned to retail, they offered her a temporary contract over other more senior staff who probably wanted more hours. That staff member refused because their union family/friends have convinced them not to take a contract. Now sure the hourly rate was lower, which was the reasoning to refuse contracts. But that's made up by the longer hours, being paid set hours a week even if sent home and also a higher discount on the products that they must wear. I can only shake my head at the stupidity of unionist who don't even understand the swings and roundabouts. But still their loss, we've enjoyed the extra cash and the extra hours worked in well with my work.

I think Gillard has shown that she is more than happy to over rule (not even tell) the caucus/party what her plans are. So in her case, she would argue most definitely.

I don't really care if Abbot has two mortgages and its surprising how much intimate detail people say they know about his financial situation.

Surely Gillard has to keep things secret to get around the fractions at times. The ALP is ruled by fractions. Giving them a chance to mobilise with pre-information is a bad thing really. I think it is good that she is exercising the power of her position more to make decisions. She is the leader of the country, I expect someone in that position to make decisions without needing to consult every Tom, Dick and Harry. Besides the election date makes no difference, they are going to lose regardless. Trying to ambush with a surprise date will make no difference to that, much better to clear the decks so there can be 5 or 6 months of running the country rather than pathetic speculation.

It terms of mortgages, one little thing that shocked me was Costello coming out after Howard lost to complain about not being able to afford his mortgage with his pay cut. I can't remember the exact figures but he was earning double my pay and had a mortgage that was either the same size or small than mine. I think he also had 2 incomes vs our single income at the time. It just made me wonder about him managing the countries finances, well the dichotomy between his personal and public life.

 

[amaroo]

Let's revisit that comment in 18 months if Abbot wins. People said the same thing when we voted in Newman ...

Newman is doing a great job. He didn't employ the 20,000 people sitting around in the public service doing stuff all!

God help Medibank Private......very poor form to see a failure like Anna be appointed to the Board. Lets all prey she's not given the task to head the IT committee

 

[amaroo]

He currently has a double mortgage on his home, so he can send his daughter's to the best private school's.

Seems a strange move for a misogynist

Good on him - whats wrong with a father working to provide for his family!

 

[medhead]

Newman is doing a great job. He didn't employ the 20,000 people sitting around in the public service doing stuff all!

God help Medibank Private......very poor form to see a failure like Anna be appointed to the Board. Lets all prey she's not given the task to head the IT committee

Knowing people who were/are employed in operational roles that most would consider important I suggest that you are wrong in your assertion that they were doing nothing.

But yeah, keep her away from IT because she had day to day management and was solely responsible for the health department pay system.

 

[amaroo]

Knowing people who were/are employed in operational roles that most would consider important I suggest that you are wrong in your assertion that they were doing nothing.

Yeah, we all know people working in the PS....

 

[Skyring]

Well, Blackcat20, any self-respecting man, especially one with daughters, would be appalled by the type of untrue and insulting comments such as those you used to describe Tony Abbott. Not what I call "healthy, friendly discussion", as you put it. Resorting to that type of attack could be perceived as indicating you are light on genuine reasons to criticise him and that you really hadn't put much thought into it. It would improve the debate if you could offer something other than “group think” in the form of a vitriollic personal attack.

People can vote any way they want for whatever reasons they want. Rusted-on views, personal looks, dress sense, attitude on some niche policy... It doesn't matter, that's democracy and we don't have to explain our votes. They still count, even if we just lazily go 1,2,3,4... from the top down.

But when we seek to influence others, and we use untruths in our attempts to sway votes, it doesn't sit right. Others point out the lies - as you have done - and overall we wonder at the behaviour of those who think so little of their fellows that they hope to trick them into voting for someone who doesn't deserve their vote, or against someone who does.

As for Tony Abbott, it's generally agreed he's a good man. He doesn't hold the extreme views on women that some would like us to think he does. He may be a little old fashioned and religious in some of his opinions, and no, I don't think he'd support marriage equality either. But at least he justifies his views through his religious beliefs and while I don't agree, I can respect that.

It's sad to think that the next eight months are likely going to be a battle over personalities, with both sides spending every Question Time seeking trivial advantages in what resembles a politer version of a playground dispute than anything related to good government. I know that every Speaker welcoming a school group to Parliament House is ashamed of the behaviour of our leaders, who should be setting themselves up as inspirational examples.

And, of course, one's gaze inevitably falls on Craig Thomson, sitting there on the cross-benches, his CL pass in his pocket.

How have we come to this? Gough Whitlam would have ripped the bloke in half and fed him to the sharks. Bob Hawke would have sent the boys around late one night. Paul Keating, well I don't know what he would have done, but it would have been done very elegantly and precisely.

 

[Pushka]

Surely Gillard has to keep things secret to get around the fractions at times. The ALP is ruled by fractions. Giving them a chance to mobilise with pre-information is a bad thing really. I think it is good that she is exercising the power of her position more to make decisions. She is the leader of the country, I expect someone in that position to make decisions without needing to consult every Tom, Dick and Harry. Besides the election date makes no difference, they are going to lose regardless. Trying to ambush with a surprise date will make no difference to that, much better to clear the decks so there can be 5 or 6 months of running the country rather than pathetic speculation..

Our theory is that it was announced to prevent Shorten from taking the lead. And remember that we are talking caucus - not every tom dick or harriet (to be politically correct ) The Caucus are the decision making body, not Gillard alone. Think also, of Nova Peris surprise nomination.

It terms of mortgages, one little thing that shocked me was Costello coming out after Howard lost to complain about not being able to afford his mortgage with his pay cut. I can't remember the exact figures but he was earning double my pay and had a mortgage that was either the same size or small than mine. I think he also had 2 incomes vs our single income at the time. It just made me wonder about him managing the countries finances, well the dichotomy between his personal and public life.

I guess the proof of the pudding is that Australia was in the black for those periods. That has to count for something. And maybe it's like the Lawyer who doesn't have his own will in order, or the Plumber with the leaking taps at home.

 

[Isochronous]

Interesting reading, and sums up perfectly why I get a queasy feeling whenever anyone starts to serious suggest that this guy is the right person to lead our nation:

16 Quotes From Tony Abbott to Remind You Why He Shouldn

btw, before anyone claims these are made up, full references are given on the 3rd comment on the blog

Nothing wrong with any of those quotes. What's your problem?

 

[lovestotravel]

Nothing wrong with any of those quotes. What's your problem?

They are from the Liberal party/Tony Abbott.....

The only one I don't really like is

On Julia Gillard:
8. ‘Gillard won’t lie down and die’

This kinda rubbish has turned Australian politics into a pathetic name calling game from both sides...

 

[Pushka]

They are from the Liberal party/Tony Abbott.....

The only one I don't really like is

On Julia Gillard:
8. ‘Gillard won’t lie down and die’

This kinda rubbish has turned Australian politics into a pathetic name calling game from both sides...

Maybe he was quoting Rudd?

 

[medhead]

Our theory is that it was announced to prevent Shorten from taking the lead. And remember that we are talking caucus - not every tom dick or harriet (to be politically correct ) The Caucus are the decision making body, not Gillard alone. Think also, of Nova Peris surprise nomination.

But caucus is run by the factions, tell them you tell the party. Caucus as a decision making body highlights the interesting difference/inconsistency between party structure and government structure. The PM is ultimately the leader of the country and has the power to decide, tempered, of course, by party support.

I didn't really follow the nova peris thing. But surely the local branch have the final vote.

I guess the proof of the pudding is that Australia was in the black for those periods. That has to count for something. And maybe it's like the Lawyer who doesn't have his own will in order, or the Plumber with the leaking taps at home.

Even Howard has said that the economy was in the black, in part because of Keating's reforms. I heard keating in the early 1990s explain the corrective balancing that he'd set up and since the recession "we had to have" there has been continuous growth. There was also a very strong economic environment, of course. (Edit: so I'm saying it was a joint effort)

But maybe you're right, too busy look after the country to manage the home.

 

[medhead]

Yeah, we all know people working in the PS....

And have the people you know faced an 85% staffing cut?

 

[Pushka]

But caucus is run by the factions, tell them you tell the party. Caucus as a decision making body highlights the interesting difference/inconsistency between party structure and government structure. The PM is ultimately the leader of the country and has the power to decide, tempered, of course, by party support.

But it's the factions that got her to where she is. Made her bed, so lie in it.

Even Howard has said that the economy was in the black, in part because of Keating's reforms. I heard keating in the early 1990s explain the corrective balancing that he'd set up and since the recession "we had to have" there has been continuous growth. There was also a very strong economic environment, of course. (Edit: so I'm saying it was a joint effort)

But maybe you're right, too busy look after the country to manage the home.

Keating was a legend though, wasn't he. Even if you hated him, you had to like him. His wit was fantastic, spot on, and cutting. So different from the mangy lot we currently have.

 

[awilcockson]

God help Medibank Private......very poor form to see a failure like Anna be appointed to the Board. Lets all prey she's not given the task to head the IT committee

I just want it on the record that I was never happier than the day that Cap'n Bligh was deposed. Just not entirely sure that Newman has really turned things around. You mention public servants, I immediately think of Nurses and emergency services personnel.

 

[lovestotravel]

Keating was a legend though, wasn't he. Even if you hated him, you had to like him. His wit was fantastic, spot on, and cutting. So different from the mangy lot we currently have.

Paul Keating and Jeff Kennett

Two of the best

 

[awilcockson]

Nothing wrong with any of those quotes. What's your problem?

My problem is with anyone who could agree with those quotes.

 

[amaroo]

It terms of mortgages, one little thing that shocked me was Costello coming out after Howard lost to complain about not being able to afford his mortgage with his pay cut. I can't remember the exact figures but he was earning double my pay and had a mortgage that was either the same size or small than mine. I think he also had 2 incomes vs our single income at the time. It just made me wonder about him managing the countries finances, well the dichotomy between his personal and public life.

At least Costello could manage to lodge his tax returns on time

PK struggled with the paperwork Fred Daly - Top Secret Tour

 

[medhead]

But it's the factions that got her to where she is. Made her bed, so lie in it.

Exactly why I hate the party structure. Not that the alternative is better or they aren't needed. But if a PM makes a decision without consulting I try not to bag them for it. (Gun control is a notable exception to that, but that was an issue based disagreement.)

Keating was a legend though, wasn't he. Even if you hated him, you had to like him. His wit was fantastic, spot on, and cutting. So different from the mangy lot we currently have.

I hated the man in the end and was glad to see the back of him. Wish he'd come back now, all is forgiven.

At least Costello could manage to lodge his tax returns on time

PK struggled with the paperwork Fred Daly - Top Secret Tour

That was mana from heaven. My dad was 7 years behind when Keating came clean on his own backlog and announced an amnesty on late returns.

 

[amaroo]

And have the people you know faced an 85% staffing cut?

Numbers! I'm sure some areas suffered 100%. There were quite a few useless things set up under the old regime.

 

[medhead]

Numbers! I'm sure some areas suffered 100%. There were quite a few useless things set up under the old regime.

But when you open the state to uranium mining, for example, and then make that sort of cut to the people who, most likely, will ensure it is conducted safely?