Passenger Forcibly Removed From Overbooked UA Flight

[Skyring]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Whether or not you agree with the police directive, you comply with it at the time. If you believe it is unreasonable/unlawful, you take that up with the relevant authorities subsequently.

Rubbish. That's not how the law works. If you know the law, stand your ground.

Having said that, sometimes it is better to comply and gather evidence, when faced with pig-headed obstinacy on the part of the cops. It's like having the right of way over a semi-trailer blasting through an intersection. You can assert your rights, but it won't help.

 

[mannej]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Rubbish. That's not how the law works. If you know the law, stand your ground.

Having said that, sometimes it is better to comply and gather evidence, when faced with pig-headed obstinacy on the part of the cops. It's like having the right of way over a semi-trailer blasting through an intersection. You can assert your rights, but it won't help.

Your first paragraph = a utopia

Second paragraph = reality

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Whether or not you agree with the police directive, you comply with it at the time. If you believe it is unreasonable/unlawful, you take that up with the relevant authorities subsequently.

Soooo... if the police demand you leave the aircraft because you are black/muslim/gay/breast-feeding... you just meekly comply? The situation is no different in those situations than the current one. There was no lawful basis for the passenger to have to leave the aircraft. Therefore no need to comply.

And if the passenger does comply... how does that help their subsequent complaint? Where's the damage? What harm did they suffer? Where's the publicity to drive change?

 

[burmans]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Whether or not you agree with the police directive, you comply with it at the time. If you believe it is unreasonable/unlawful, you take that up with the relevant authorities subsequently.

Sure, when that policeman tells me to shoot someone or run around naked, I'll do just that. You may well comply with this, I don't think I will.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Your first paragraph = a utopia

Second paragraph = reality

One must be practical. But realistically, cops often know they are on shakey legal ground and rely on the power of their uniform to bamboozle innocents. Stay calm, demonstrate that you know your rights, collect evidence. Constable Plod doesn't want to get his superiors mad at him, which they will be if there are subsequent complaints and he's in the wrong.

But there are limits. If the cop is pulling a weapon out, you may wish to go quietly!

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Whether or not you agree with the police directive, you comply with it at the time. If you believe it is unreasonable/unlawful, you take that up with the relevant authorities subsequently.

In this example the passenger has done the right thing by sticking to his rights and highlighting how broken this process is (with unfortunate results!)

No where in the UA charter do they have clear process for removing a peaceful passenger that poses no safety threat by force - all their carriage rights revolve around either A) pre-boarding denial and B) passenger safety and abiding by the law once boarded.

This was a hatchet job by UA gate staff and all caught on video for the world to see.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Seems to me, that police officer lost his temper, perhaps because he felt he was being challenged in public. Hopefully, they send him off on an anger management course and a good judgement course and pair him up with someone who doesn't take things personally.

 

[Skyring]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

In this example the passenger has done the right thing by sticking to his rights and highlighting how broken this process is (with unfortunate results!)

No where in the UA charter do they have clear process for removing a peaceful passenger that poses no safety threat by force - all their carriage rights revolve around either A) pre-boarding denial and B) passenger safety and abiding by the law once boarded.

This was a hatchet job by UA gate staff and all caught on video for the world to see.

We can all put ourselves in a similar position. Say we arrange a trip, we book our flights to take best advantage of aircraft, good seats, connections, adequate lounge time and so on. We've got exactly what we need to maximise airmiles, status credits or whatever. Maybe everyone else on the same flight has just accepted whatever seat allocation they were given, but we researched SeatGuru, we've done our homework, we are exactly where we want to be.

We board the aircraft, buckle up, and then the airline wants us to give up our seats because we've been "randomly selected" and won't volunteer to leave the plane.

It's not a matter of safety or security. We can ask for the payment in cash, as is our right, and a written notice, likewise. If we don't get what the airline is legally required to give us, then why on earth should we give up our seats because some cop who doesn't know the law tells us to?

It's no skin off his nose. He'll toss us off, go back to drinking coffee and leering at the hosties. He just wants an easy life and he doesn't care about our rights.

 

[Tiki]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

We can all put ourselves in a similar position. Say we arrange a trip, we book our flights to take best advantage of aircraft, good seats, connections, adequate lounge time and so on. We've got exactly what we need to maximise airmiles, status credits or whatever. Maybe everyone else on the same flight has just accepted whatever seat allocation they were given, but we researched SeatGuru, we've done our homework, we are exactly where we want to be.

We board the aircraft, buckle up, and then the airline wants us to give up our seats because we've been "randomly selected" and won't volunteer to leave the plane.

It's not a matter of safety or security. We can ask for the payment in cash, as is our right, and a written notice, likewise. If we don't get what the airline is legally required to give us, then why on earth should we give up our seats because some cop who doesn't know the law tells us to?

It's no skin off his nose. He'll toss us off, go back to drinking coffee and leering at the hosties. He just wants an easy life and he doesn't care about our rights.

That's why this is hitting home with so many people. This could have happened to any one of us and if it happened in the USA a $800 UA voucher would be useless if we weren't planning future travel to the USA. Dr Dao hadn't done anything wrong. He showed up on time, boarded and was quietly awaiting take-off when UA sprung this on him. A Dr in the USA isn't going to be happy with a voucher when he has a full day of patients awaiting on Monday and he has nurses and office staff to pay. United caused this problem by not being generous enough with the compensation. The average wage earner in the US gets $15 to 20 an hour (shop clerks, receptionists, waiters, customer service, etc). Surely for $500 cash tax free, they would have found 4 people who would like to sit in a hotel, have free food and a swimming pool and still come out $300 ahead (or more) than if they worked a full day. Or tourists who can't use a voucher but could use cash. And if $500 isn't enough, go to $600, 700 or whatever it takes until someone goes for it.

Or a gate agent who can think outside the box and is empowered could charter a minibus like I said in the other post and bribe 4 pax to use it.

I don't disagree the 4 deadhead crew needed to fly, United just was too cheap trying to bully people off the plane for coughpy vouchers. If nothing else, I think Dr Dao's future lawsuit will teach them a good lesson and in future IDB will be more generous.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

The Dr has already changed one airline. United will no longer request coppers to remove (booked, paid, seated) passengers from full flights + refunds for everyone on that infamous flight!

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I think police/law enforcement will also rethink their role in such matters. They are law enforcement not company enforcers.
Instead of being an airline proxy they might be more independent and make a proper assessment before taking lawful action.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I think police/law enforcement will also rethink their role in such matters. They are law enforcement not company enforcers.
Instead of being an airline proxy they might be more independent and make a proper assessment before taking lawful action.

I think airlines and their staff we lose whatever special status they thought they had. Fair enough in the air, but on the ground a tube with fancy paintwork shouldn't evaporate consumer rights and rule of law.

 

[kpc]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Let's cut to the $$$. How much will UA pay to gag Dr Dao? There is no way they would want this to go to court and in the public domain when the lawsuit is received (hence the eventual grovelling apology from the UA CEO)....physical assault, psychological assault, PTSD, defamation, loss of reputation..etc etc...I reckon about 5-10 million USD from UA with a confidentiality clause ...oh, wait til he does media interviews but I suspect his lawyers will gag him from saying anything! ...and he will be suing the Chicago airport security / police department as well!! Dr Dao will end up being a very, very rich man as a result of this incident!!

 

[amaroo]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Ignoring his criminal record :shock: His family appears to be high achievers .... apprantely his wife is a paediatrician and four of his kids are doctors. Pretty impressive contribution to society.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Ignoring his criminal record :shock: His family appears to be high achievers .... apprantely his wife is a paediatrician and four of his kids are doctors. Pretty impressive contribution to society.

His criminal record........
About that, may account for some of what's happened.
And before I get lynched, no I'm not condoning in any way the actions of UA.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

His criminal record........
About that, may account for some of what's happened.
And before I get lynched, no I'm not condoning in any way the actions of UA.

Princess, I would like have done the same thing or worse. I get angry when my rights are exploited/violated. I'm not a criminal. You can't push me around that easily.

And yes my selfish needs are not overriden by trying not to inconvenience 70 or 200 others. It's like saying it is justified to sacrifice my life to save others. No it's not OK today and never will be.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

His criminal record........
About that, may account for some of what's happened.
And before I get lynched, no I'm not condoning in any way the actions of UA.

His history or criminal record is completely irrelevant in this case. It's quite outrageous that it's even been mentioned. IMHO he's been treated unlawfully. Gunna be a big legal claim against agents and airline.

Idiot CEO of united deserves to lose his $650K bonus. Completely unfathomable response to the actions. Great example of exactly how not to handle difficulties with customers.

 

[kpc]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

The fact that his alleged criminal record has now been splashed all over the media will only add to the damages claim against UA. ie damages to reputation etc. I don't think the CEO of UA will resign over this but his reign at UA will be much shorter than originally planned. The negativity towards / avoidance of UA will take years to recover. The image of a relatively elderly man with a bloodied face being dragged across the aisle of a UA plane won't be forgotten in a hurry!!

 

[cove]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I haven't bothered with United for at least a decade and this happening pretty much seals the next decade for us. I think a lot of flyers will be put off booking with them.
I wasn't happy with the United CEO. He should have done better in his first statement but muffed it.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Random computer selection can't be random because factors such astute we come into play
fare paid
value to airline
any connecting flights
checked luggage
travelling group
minors
previous delays
previous denied boarding
etc?