Passenger Forcibly Removed From Overbooked UA Flight

[amaroo]

More evidence that UA just doesn't care. The UA pilots and their union should keep their mouths shut IMHO...their statement does not help the situation and probably inflames it even more!

Oh dear! Silly union is trying its best to bring the story back to ground zero (blame others) - stupid, very stupid!

 

[codash1099]

Looks like it's having a flow on effect.

Delta to offer up to $10K to passengers on overbooked flights | TheHill

 

[serfty]

... of a random passenger. ....

...
Why randomly select a passenger who is travelling with his wife and with checked luggage who is transiting in ORD from LAX?.
...

It's quite possible the selection was actually not random - a formulae being used instead.

There's a difference between "Involuntary Denied Boarding" which has regulated compensation and "Voluntary Denied Boarding" which is a contract between the PAX and the airline.

The latter can be anything but is often in the form of vouchers and sometimes accommodation.

The former (in this case) is four times the "value" of the fare, paid in cash or cheque to a maximum of USD1350.

Dr Dao was on the final short leg of a long (international?) journey. In such cases the fare component for compensation is pro rated based on the segment distance against the total distance of the ticket.

The cash compensation would have been very low in his case.

I am not stating this is what happened as I do not know for sure; but it is not unlikely.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

I agree with the option of offering $$ until that 4th seat became vacant... This is a crazy incident and I could not really believe what I was reading when it happened..

A disgraceful way to treat someone..



The voluntary option happened 3 times to me last year on DL.

1st time, needed 2 people to bump, $500 offered and no one moved, $600 offered and no one moved, $600 + 1 x Nights Accommodation no one moved $700 + 1 x Night Accommodation + $200 prepaid Amex cards and 2 people jumped up.

Next time I accepted with $200 Amex prepaid card to move to next flight approx 30 mins later..

Third time offered $700 USD DL credit and I declined..Asked for $700 cash and they said no.

Everyone has a price

 

[kpc]

The voluntary option happened 3 times to me last year on DL.

1st time, needed 2 people to bump, $500 offered and no one moved, $600 offered and no one moved, $600 + 1 x Nights Accommodation no one moved $700 + 1 x Night Accommodation + $200 prepaid Amex cards and 2 people jumped up.

I would have blinked at "$600 + 1 x Nights Accommodation" For a couple, USD1400 in Delta credit + USD400 Amex credit and a free night's accommodation...I'm surpised more couples didn't jump up! As you said, every man has a price...for the UA flight, I reckon once they got to about USD1200, passengers would have been really twitching

 

[CJEMNMAC]

I would have blinked at "$600 + 1 x Nights Accommodation" For a couple, USD1400 in Delta credit + USD400 Amex credit and a free night's accommodation...I'm surpised more couples didn't jump up! As you said, every man has a price...for the UA flight, I reckon once they got to about USD1200, passengers would have been really twitching

MSP to YVR

I had a flight from YVR with my daughter the following day ( USDM redemption )... I did not want to risk missing that flight..

If not for that, I was 100% in

 

[Moody]

Oh dear! Silly union is trying its best to bring the story back to ground zero (blame others) - stupid, very stupid!

Que? Did you and kpc actually read the letter? Let me quote you some passages you might have missed :-

"The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter. United pilots are infuriated by this event"
"This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat."
"The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again."


They sound quite pissed off about the whole circus, and who could blame them?

 

[OATEK]

Que? Did you and kpc actually read the letter? Let me quote you some passages you might have missed :-

"The safety and well-being of our passengers is the highest priority for United pilots, and this should not have escalated into a violent encounter. United pilots are infuriated by this event"
"This event was an anomaly and is not how United or the police are expected to treat passengers when there is no security threat."
"The United Airlines MEC is confident that the steps we are taking as a company will ensure this type of inexcusable event never happens again."


They sound quite pissed off about the whole circus, and who could blame them?

I think the tenor was that it's not us. it was some other mob masquerading as us, and we are pixx_d-off that we are likely to be affected. As others have said, blaming others in their corporate extensions is a bit of a cop out. To solve a major problem like this, first you must own it. United took a long time to own it, and others are still trying to wipe their hands of it.

 

[Quickstatus]

The event was actually Not anomalous but rather an event waiting to happen. It just needed some holes in the Swiss cheese to align. In hindsight it is clear how such an event escalated the way it did

The groups still missing with a statement are:
Republic airlines
Cabin Crew organisation
City of Chicago
Aviation police organisation

I do think pointing the finger at the Aviation police by the pilots organisation is unfair. The actions of the aviation police are but one factor of many causing this whole saga.

 

[Quickstatus]

It's quite possible the selection was actually not random - a formulae being used instead.
.

Yes you may be right however,
Why would a formulae green light a passenger who is travelling with another passenger unless they were on separate tickets and someone with checked luggage?

........

Looks like it's having a flow on effect.

Delta to offer up to $10K to passengers on overbooked flights | TheHill

Airlines trying to head off Federal government action?

 

[anat0l]

I do think pointing the finger at the Aviation police by the pilots organisation is unfair. The actions of the aviation police are but one factor of many causing this whole saga.

I imagine that this will be one big bone of contention in court, because it will determine the extent (if any) of liability on the part of the police.

Of course, the key question that will be asked is that while UA may not have had any basis to remove the pax, could the action have been achieved without beating up Dr Dao (i.e. the police had a choice and power to do what they were asked to do without beating him up).

Airlines trying to head off Federal government action?

I don't know what kind of federal action would have started things, as the government - especially with lobbies rattling at their doors (perhaps less of a concern given the current government) - would rather the industry self-regulate than it have to do stuff. However, if dfcatch is to be believed, the sentiment would be that the government will want to appear it is taking affirmative action; getting ahead of the curve might convince the government to think it has had an "effect" and thus it will not have to wrap its hands on the necks of the airlines, allowing the latter to actually get off lighter than the apparent gravity of the situation dictates.

 

[JohnK]

And that's the bit that the lawyers can debate. Was it an IDB or not ? Given that the boarding process wasn't complete, the flight became oversold once the 4 crew showed up, and no volunteers could be found.

I'm with RooFlyer here. I would obey crew member instructions and seek redress later.

By redress I mean complain to customer care, not in a legal way.

Complaining to customer care can be useless at the best of times even when their staff are in wrong.

It's not for crew/gate staff to decide who travels and who doesn't. It's not for them to be able to ruin someone's trip/holiday.

The correct process is to ask for volunteers and offer enough incentive for them to volunteer. If no volunteers then cancel flight and start again but then that's a significant delay.

 

[Quickstatus]

Complaining to customer care can be useless at the best of times.

There are so many airline practices that affect passengers that are never properly addressed by CC.
Airline rely on passengers just "wearing it" and moving on. Over time the resentment builds up and events like this causes that resentment to boil over. Airlines should understand that the more they treat customers badly the shorter the fuse becomes.

There is really no such thing as customer care in the airline industry. Occasional "good news stories" notwithstanding.

The compensation relating to the QF J to Y downgrade is a perfect example.

Frequent flyer loyalty is not true loyalty.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Perhaps part of the solution is that airlines be prevented from making a profit off oversales?

In EmilyP's case, downgraded from LAX, the airline sold the same business class seat twice, but offered only a fraction of that back to the passenger ($700) by way of compensation. EmilyP's parents paid $7500 each for the round-trip.

This shouldn't be allowed to happen. Perhaps compensation should include the difference between the fare bumped, and the fare paid, if the latter is higher. This removes any profit incentive for the airline and is fairer for the passenger.

The US DOT has rules in place to determine all fares paid on an aircraft which are used to determine compensation for award tickets which have a 'zero' cost. The airline has to pay based on the lowest fare received through either cash or credit card for that flight. The same principle could be applied to overbooking.

 

[serfty]

Yes you may be right however,
Why would a formulae green light a passenger who is travelling with another passenger unless they were on separate tickets and someone with checked luggage? ...

Who's to say ... perhaps the agent was not the brightest soul around.

1, 2, 3 , 4 ... on the list ...

 

[Mrmaxwell]

I saw a CNN interview with one of the passengers on the flight who advised that Dr Dao at first volunteered his seat until he was advised the next available flight to SDF was the next day, at which point he changed his mind. Certainly doesn't excuse what occurred but it is interesting if true as I would argue that the random selection was not random at all!

 

[Melburnian1]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

There are a few pages of this thread I have not read so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

The plane from which the gent was bundled off was actually operated by Republic Airlines, which I gather is reasonably similar to (say) Cobham Aviation in Australia: Republic operates some or all of United's smaller routes:

Republic Airlines is to Blame for the United Airlines Incident: Former Spirit Airlines CEO | Fox Business

Ignore the misspelling of 'boarded' in this article - it was printed as 'bordered' - but it offers an hypothesis as to how the Republic Airlines crew attempted to board late, and hence this requirement for them to travel to Louisville was not finalised before other passengers had boarded.

Simply as a guess I suspect UA may settle for $2 million to $3 million with the ejected passenger's (to use the Australian term) solicitors. USA is so litigious!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

There are a few pages of this thread I have not read so apologies if this has already been mentioned.

The plane from which the gent was bundled off was actually operated by Republic Airlines, which I gather is reasonably similar to (say) Cobham Aviation in Australia: Republic operates some or all of United's smaller routes:

Republic Airlines is to Blame for the United Airlines Incident: Former Spirit Airlines CEO | Fox Business

Ignore the misspelling of 'boarded' in this article - it was printed as 'bordered' - but it offers an hypothesis as to how the Republic Airlines crew attempted to board late, and hence this requirement for them to travel to Louisville was not finalised before other passengers had boarded.

Simply as a guess I suspect UA may settle for $2 million to $3 million with the ejected passenger's (to use the Australian term) solicitors. USA is so litigious!

But it might be that the gate agent was UA. I don't think it really matters though... you book a flight on the UA site, speak to a UA call centre, and fly on a plane with United on the side.

Yes the USA is litigious, but I don't see a problem with that. It can be a very effective at bringing about change.

 

[mannej]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Simply as a guess I suspect UA may settle for $2 million to $3 million with the ejected passenger's (to use the Australian term) solicitors. USA is so litigious!

The perception of that may be true, but I can recall reading somewhere a statistic suggesting that per capita, Australia is up there as one of the highest as well.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Simply as a guess I suspect UA may settle for $2 million to $3 million with the ejected passenger's (to use the Australian term) solicitors. USA is so litigious!

Dr Dao's lawyer advised during the press conference he wants this to go to trial citing the overwhelming video evidence and to bring about real change (and of course fame for his firm).