Passenger Forcibly Removed From Overbooked UA Flight

[ajw373]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Overbooked flight? Seems flight want overbooked until they decided they needed to ferry 4 crew to elsewhere. I personally wouldn't be too impressed being kicked off in that situation and united should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[suze2000]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

A few thoughts

1) this is disgusting behaviour by the airline
2) Where was the pilot in all this? There's no mention of the pilot.
3) I note the only one of those officers touching the man was the one who dragged him out. The others must have had more sense - hence that he was dragged and not carried.
4) I suspect the main criteria for being removed was being HLO
5) Technically he was disobeying crew instructions and United at that point did actually have the right to remove him anyway
6) why the hell did they board the plane knowing this was an issue? Much easier to deal with before pax are on board (not by dragging people off the plane!)
7) to reiterate, lest I be misinterpreted: this is disgusting behaviour by United.
8) why are airlines allowed to overbook?

 

[njba]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I would like to think that in future once you are on the plane then you shouldn't be able to forcibly remove someone unless you were intoxicated or not obeying crew instructions.

I presume the crew instruction in this case was "Sir, leave the plane." It's frightening how powerless you are as a passenger once you board the plane.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

A few thoughts
5) Technically he was disobeying crew instructions and United at that point did actually have the right to remove him anyway
7) to reiterate, lest I be misinterpreted: this is disgusting behaviour by United.
8) why are airlines allowed to overbook?

Passengers are required to follow 'lawful' crew member instructions. Those instructions, to be lawful, must relate to the safety of the aircraft. And the FAA prescribes those instances in the US.

In this case the instruction did not relate to the safe operation of the aircraft, and perhaps therefore may not have been 'lawful'.

A lot of people assume that if an instruction is not 'illegal' then it must be lawful. That's probably not a correct assumption in all cases.

Airlines overbooking is historical... back to the days where fares were high and fully flexible... many people would book seats on two or three flights and decide on the day which one they wanted. It's hard to argue that the same applies in 2017 when airlines have non-refundable, non-changeable fares and complex computer programs to work out exactly how many seats they are likely to fill.

Dunno if the issue of the four crew needing to be in Lousiville complicated the issue in this case... sounds like it was an unplanned need (to accommodate the crew)... which might mean UA had managed the pax load correctly up until that point.

agree. bad behaviour by UA.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

This is disgusting behaviour and is simply not good enough.

No one should have to be treated this way. You pay your money up front for a seat on a flight and are forced off after boarding. It's not even good enough forced off prior to boarding.

Why do airlines always look for the most complex solution to a simple problem? The simple solution would be to pay someone to drive the crew to the destination. One of the employees could hire a car and drive there and back and if you gave the employee $500 they'd be happy? Give them $1,000 and United is still in front.

 

[Simo]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Very OTT action... If he had a valid reason for it being taken off due to patient care then he was with in his rights but maybe the attitude test was failed

 

[moa999]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

In this case the instruction did not relate to the safe operation of the aircraft, and perhaps therefore may not have been 'lawful'.

Thin edge of the wedge.

Next someone will plonk themselves in first because a seats free and refuse to move, lie down in the aisle because it's more comfortable, and help myself to the alcohol -- none of which relate to safety.

On the last flight of the night no-one wants to be left behind and I suspect most of the pax were due at work the next morning.

I agree that this should have been better handled. I would have thought the police should have detained the man, rather than the aggressive private security

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Thin edge of the wedge.

Next someone will plonk themselves in first because a seats free and refuse to move, lie down in the aisle because it's more comfortable, and help myself to the alcohol -- none of which relate to safety.

Actually a couple of those do relate to safety (sleeping in aisles and control of the service of alcohol). Others would likely escalate into the interference with crew member duties.

FAA rules are fairly clear on what contributes a lawful instruction.

 

[moa999]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

United internal email from CEO:

Oscar letter this evening:


April 10, 2017

Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I’ve included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar


Summary of Flight 3411

> On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.

> We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.

> He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.

> Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.

> Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.

 

[moa999]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Personally think the tone of the above is pretty poor and likely to cause further PR issues for UA

 

[njba]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Wow, he just doesn't get it. No one United staff have such combative attitudes if they're fed such ordure as that on a regular basis. I love how a customer objecting to unjust treatment is labelled as "disruptive and belligerent." You get a real sense of annoyance that passengers don't just lie down and take whatever the airlines happen to dish out on a particular day.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Let's talk impacts.

I predict... nothing. Maybe that doctor will get some sort of damages or compensation. But that's it. He'll probably be told to keep all settlements confidential, even if it were to go to court.

The fact that this incident will have little overall impact will serve to endorse that the airline and/or authorities did nothing wrong, in spite of what anyone else says. I certainly don't believe that:

• It will have any material impact on UA's revenue
• Any of the staff implicated in the incident will be dismissed

 

[codash1099]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...erm=.c21a7b18711a&wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

 

[kpc]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

United internal email from CEO:

Oscar letter this evening:


April 10, 2017

Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I’ve included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar


Summary of Flight 3411

> On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.

> We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.

> He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.

> Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.

> Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.

Disgraceful email from a CEO who "just doesn't get it"!

 

[get me outta here]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

From the United website. CEO named communicator of the Year: United - Newsroom - News Releases

« Back to news releases​

[h=1]United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz Named PRWeek’s Communicator of the Year[/h]Munoz recognized for changing the conversation about United as he leads improvement in the airline’s performance, customer satisfaction and employee engagement
March 17, 2017
CHICAGO, IL, March 17, 2017 – At its annual awards gala in New York last night, PRWeek, the world’s leading public relations and communications publication, presented United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz with its coveted Communicator of the Year award for his efforts over the past year to better engage with employees and customers as he led a dramatic transformation at the airline, all while recovering from a near-fatal heart attack and subsequent heart transplant.

Each year, PRWeek nominates a figure outside the public relations field who has demonstrated outstanding communication skills, oftentimes amidst difficult circumstances. Since taking the reins of United in late-2015, Munoz’s communication strategy has been based, in part, on speaking openly and honestly about improving the airline while inviting customers and employees to contribute their ideas on how the company could better serve them. So far the results have confirmed that he’s on the right track: through the end of 2016, United boasted record-breaking on-time performance and has seen its customer satisfaction scores climb.
Munoz has repeatedly referred to United as a “people business,” and his strategy from day one has been to reconnect with employees and customers. That philosophy was best summed up in his remarks when accepting the award on behalf of United’s more than 87,000 employees, saying, “Communication and communication strategy is not just part of the game, it is the game.”
In an article published last week, PRWeek detailed its reasons for selecting him: “Munoz has shown himself to be a smart, dedicated, and excellent leader who understands the value of communications. His ability to connect and share with employees his vision for the airline, and get them to rally behind it, is a key reason PRWeek named him 2017 Communicator of the Year.”
In years past, PRWeek has recognized global communications and thought leaders such as Malala Yousafzai, the Pakistani women’s education activist, Pete Frates, the former Boston College baseball star who created the popular “Ice Bucket Challenge” after being diagnosed with ALS, Edie Windsor, the influential LGBT rights advocate, and Clementa Pinckney, the late South Carolina senator and pastor who was killed in the 2015 Charleston church shooting.
[h=2]About United[/h]United Airlines and United Express operate more than 4,500 flights a day to 339 airports across five continents. In 2016, United and United Express operated more than 1.6 million flights carrying more than 143 million customers. United is proud to have the world's most comprehensive route network, including U.S. mainland hubs in Chicago, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, New York/Newark, San Francisco and Washington, D.C. United operates 737 mainline aircraft and the airline’s United Express partners operate 483 regional aircraft. The airline is a founding member of Star Alliance, which provides service to 192 countries via 28 member airlines. For more information, visit united.com, follow @United on Twitter or connect on Facebook. The common stock of United's parent, United Continental Holdings, Inc., is traded on the NYSE under the symbol “UAL”.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

Bad PR for airline but nothing will happen. some $$ gets thrown around and business as usual....Unfortunately

 

[Denali]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I must have a stone, cold heart.

This didnt have to end this way, ultimately in todays security climate, if crew tell me to get off the plane, I have to get off the plane. If police officers tell me to get off the plane, I have to get off the plane.

Yes, I would be majorily p****ed and stressed but what are my options? Oh, I can do a sit in to be forcibly removed - dumb choice.

Did UA manage this badly, yes but it wasnt until the pax refused to follow airline and three police directions did it become a hot mess and now a police officers career is on hold as hes been put on leave/pending investigation.

 

[andyhui01]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

I know it cost more money but doesn't it make more sense to keep upping the amount until someone takes it? There are 200pax in a narrowbody. Not all of them needs to get to its destination that night.

I know I would have moved for $1000 + accomodation that night + upgrade on the next flight for MEL-SYD. I remember being offered by SQ, next flight in the morning and $400AUD cash + accomodation. I just responded saying yes if I get an upgrade on tomorrows flight and that was done.

 

[moa999]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

They were offering that - reportedly got to US$800 plus accom.. but no-one took it (probably similar SYD-MEL at 9pm on a Sun night) so they went to random selection.

Three of four went without issue.. One complained and refused for 10min, then security and police were called

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Pax forcibly removed from United overbooked flight

All because the airlines think they can enforce arbitrary rules. Yes crew directions should be follow but it should be lawful and just. This is certainly not just - lawful? well only a court will decide that, but Ill bet the airline will keep it out of the courts. Its United's fault for not having better planning their crew transfers ]. To force a paying customer to get off the plane for a non safety issue is plain wrong. The deadheading crew should not have got on.