Passengers kicked off flight over seat recline spat

[suze2000]

I'm wondering if those things would be a safety hazard. I keep seeing pictures of them with a key, which would suggest they are locked on, and thus cannot be removed quickly? Wouldn't that mean they could be argued to impede evacuation? I wouldn't want to be the person in the window seat next to someone using those.

I was on a flight recently where my seat did not recline. When the person behind me went to the loo, I had a good look, but I could not see any evidence of tampering from behind (I thought I would find a knee defender), and the FAs were flummoxed as to why not. Lucky it was only BNE-AKL.

 

[boomy]

I'm wondering if those things would be a safety hazard. I keep seeing pictures of them with a key, which would suggest they are locked on, and thus cannot be removed quickly? Wouldn't that mean they could be argued to impede evacuation? I wouldn't want to be the person in the window seat next to someone using those.

If the seat is kept in it's original position (which is what that device is designed to do) there is no safety hazard. On some airlines the emergency exit seats can't be reclined.

 

[suze2000]

Sorry you're missing my point: the user can't put the tray table up.

 

[dairyfloss]

I have actually once had a seat that was broken. So if you didn't know it was broken the seat, it would lurch back when you sat down. Well anyway it pissed off the person behind. Not my fault, but what could I do about a faulty reclining seat mechanism?

I've actually had this numerous times on QF, particularly when on older metal servicing domestic flights (e.g. 767). Seat slowly reclines regardless of any button pressure. Let me say that a take-off in one of these bad boys will have you feeling like you've just done about 40 sit ups! My stomach muscles are still sore just thinking about them. Thankfully not had to deal with one on any long haul flight. Would definitely be asking for a relocation!

 

[medhead]

Love this stuff, The seat has the function I have the right to recline. Everyone else can go and get stuffed. I have the right to eat nuts, everyone else can go and get stuffed. A complete lack of all consideration for anyone else in the world marks people as arrogant and selfish.

The simple fact remains, if you need to recline to sleep you can't be that tired.

I've managed to sleep in the back of one of these while it was dodging trees while driving through the bush. That was tired.
View attachment 34571

 

[medhead]

If the seat is kept in it's original position (which is what that device is designed to do) there is no safety hazard. On some airlines the emergency exit seats can't be reclined.

Wrong. The tray table can't be put up, potentially blocking people from exiting the aircraft. Yes, that is a safety issue.

 

[boomy]

Sorry you're missing my point: the user can't put the tray table up.

Oh sorry, it seems easy to remove in case of emergency. the key in the photos doesn't seem to be a part of the device. They probably put it there to show how small it is, the size of a key.

 

[boomy]

Wrong. The tray table can't be put up, potentially blocking people from exiting the aircraft. Yes, that is a safety issue.

No more safety issue then anything else that blocks the tray. Takes longer to clear a tray full of food and drinks then removing this devise.

 

[medhead]

Oh sorry, it seems easy to remove in case of emergency. the key in the photos doesn't seem to be a part of the device. They probably put it there to show how small it is, the size of a key.

Wrong! People forget how to remove their seat belt in an emergency. Highly doubtful that someone who didn't put the thing in place is going to easily remove them when confronted with a tray table that won't move.

No more safety issue then anything else that blocks the tray. Takes longer to clear a tray full of food and drinks then removing this devise.

People can see what is on the table. They will easily miss this little device, especially in an emergency.

 

[blackcat20]

The simple fact remains, if you need to recline to sleep you can't be that tired.

Not true. I've been so overtired on a long haul from not being able to sleep that I've ended up quite upset and panicked. If I could have got off half way to the US I would have.

 

[boomy]

Wrong! People forget how to remove their seat belt in an emergency. Highly doubtful that someone who didn't put the thing in place is going to easily remove them when confronted with a tray table that won't move.



People can see what is on the table. They will easily miss this little device, especially in an emergency.

Only if the person that put it becomes paralysed and the person sitting next to him is half blind. If it's not safe then it should be illegal to use, I will leave it to the experts to decide. I do hope it will eventually be banned from all flights, not because of safety issues, more because it's not fair to block someone from reclining if they wish to do so.

 

[medhead]

Not true. I've been so overtired on a long haul from not being able to sleep that I've ended up quite upset and panicked. If I could have got off half way to the US I would have.

Can I presume that reclining wouldn't have helped you sleep in that case?

Reclining provides negligible comfort to aid sleep. If someone can sleep while reclined then they can sleep with the seat upright. If I'm tired I can sleep. Then again maybe I'm lucky, it has been said I could sleep on a barbed wire fence.

Only if the person that put it becomes paralysed and the person sitting next to him is half blind. If it's not safe then it should be illegal to use, I will leave it to the experts to decide. I do hope it will eventually be banned from all flights, not because of safety issues, more because it's not fair to block someone from reclining if they wish to do so.

Again people forget how to undo their seat belt in an emergency. A fully sighted person who didn't place the device and has never seen one before is a great risk of not being able to remove the device simply because they don't know what it is. Then throw in a cabin full of smoke and panic, injury and death they don't have time to experiment about getting out of the seat. Anything that impedes rapid exit is a safety issue. And qantas and virgin have banned the device.

 

[blackcat20]

Can I presume that reclining wouldn't have helped you sleep in that case?

Reclining provides negligible comfort to aid sleep. If someone can sleep while reclined then they can sleep with the seat upright. If I'm tired I can sleep. Then again maybe I'm lucky, it has been said I could sleep on a barbed wire fence.

It may have, however I had a kicking child behind me and it was safer to keep my seat up. I was also hemmed in by reclining AFL players in front. But I've learnt: if you don't like being reclined on, make sure you aren't in that position. Buy an exit row or bulkhead seat. I figure it works out just over $10 an hour, and that is worth my sanity. And again, I can't sit fully upright due to an injury, it's quite painful.

 

[opusman]

And again, I can't sit fully upright due to an injury, it's quite painful.

Surely that's not true. Medhead can sit fully upright, so that means everyone else in the world must be able to as well.

 

[JohnK]

But I've learnt: if you don't like being reclined on, make sure you aren't in that position. Buy an exit row or bulkhead seat. I figure it works out just over $10 an hour, and that is worth my sanity. And again, I can't sit fully upright due to an injury, it's quite painful.

Excellent advice. Avoids any potential confrontation.

And another reason why I panic before I get to the airport on long haul flights. That some clown has somehow managed to steal my bulkhead seat or there has been a late aircraft swap from say a QF A332 to an A333.

 

[Denali]

When I book a flight, unless at the pointy end, I assume that if there is a person in front of me, they will recline. Its a given. The seats are made to do that so I don't understand the whining about it when it happens. If you don't want someone reclining into you then book the bulk head or J or a private plane.

Same with people that book an aisle seat and then cough about the person next to them wanting to get up to use the toilet.

And someone telling someone else that they aren't tired enough if they have to recline to sleep makes them sound like some of the sanctimommies on crunchy boards comparing childbirth. Everyones comfort level is different.

 

[boomy]

Again people forget how to undo their seat belt in an emergency. A fully sighted person who didn't place the device and has never seen one before is a great risk of not being able to remove the device simply because they don't know what it is. Then throw in a cabin full of smoke and panic, injury and death they don't have time to experiment about getting out of the seat. Anything that impedes rapid exit is a safety issue. And qantas and virgin have banned the device.

Some airlines ban it, other don't. It's not illegal to use and the main safety issue about the knee defender is getting punched in the face if using it.

 

[UP4014]

The same people who forget how the seat belt buckle works are probably the same ones who don't forget their hand luggage in an emergency as well. :shock:

During take off and landing tray tables are up and these devices not in use, an emergency at 35K feet is not going to require my immediate evacuation of the aircraft via the emergency door.

'Safety' can be used to justify almost anything which I see everyday in the rail freight world. (we can't use the locomotive as the kettle doesn't work, if we don't have our cuppa we could get dehydrated - true.)

I'm tall so when someone reclines in Y it's relatively easy to stick my knees into their back if they become a problem. Works too I might add.

These devices are only made because Y seats recline to far........?

Matt

 

[samh004]

They did that. And everyone coughed and moaned about how uncomfortable it was.

CX had the seats that didn't recline at all, just scooted forward, while QF has a bit of both these days and I think they work quite well.

Interesting noting different levels of space between seats... when flying BA recently there was tons of space in front of my knees, couldn't believe it. JQ on the other hand, domestically at least, my knees are right up against the seat in front.

 

[Warks]

There was yet another article on the subject of seat reclining in one of the papers today but I can't find it now. It was something like "there's one rule for seat reclining - it shouldn't be done on flights of less than 3 hours' duration" so they pontificated. Of course there was the usual troll in the comments who kept saying "I have paid for a seat that reclines, therefore I will recline my seat". And so on...

Edit: found it!
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel...t-ok-to-recline-your-seat-20140827-3eez4.html