Passengers kicked off flight over seat recline spat

[whatmeworry]

Seems sales of Knee Defender have jumped after this latest reclining incident.

The Knee Defender, a gadget that blocks plane seats from reclining, got a global boost after a scuffle between two passengers forced a United Airlines jet to make an unscheduled landing.
The gizmo's website crashed Tuesday after traffic surged, and sales rose "substantially" for the $US21.95 ($A23.57) plastic clips that have been on the market since 2003, said the inventor, Ira Goldman.

Read more: Legroom gadget sales jump after seat recline spat on plane
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[boomy]

Any publicity is good publicity I guess...

 

[JohnK]

Ruined? Really? Long haul flying is rarely comfortable, unless you're up the pointy end. And no was am I spending 14 hours sitting bolt upright because the person behind me is feeling precious.

Precious? Really? Obviously your needs to recline outweigh my needs to be as comfortable as possible on an uncomfortable long haul flight.

Learn to sleep upright and you won't need to worry. It is really simple. I did and now I can sleep anywhere.

Exactly. Upright for meals, and recline for sleeping. And if everyone is doing it, it shouldn't be an issue.

No point removing the recline when 99.99% of flights/passengers have no issues.

You are joking? I walk through the cabin many times on each flight. The percentage of recliners to non recliners is fairly even. Maybe there are a few more recliners but I would suspect a lot of them are forced to recline.

My beef is not with you. It is with the airlines who think reducing space and squeezing more people in helps the bottom line. Remove the recline feature or give non-recliners an area free of recliners. Or better still find a design where people can recline into their own seat.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Precious? Really? Obviously your needs to recline outweigh my needs to be as comfortable as possible on an uncomfortable long haul flight.
.

Isn't it a case of one passenger needing to be as comfortable as possible versus another passenger needing to be as comfortable as possible?

 

[TomVexille]

Precious? Really? Obviously your needs to recline outweigh my needs to be as comfortable as possible on an uncomfortable long haul flight.

Yup. Precious. Since you seem to think you're more important than everyone else.

Or better still find a design where people can recline into their own seat.

They did that. And everyone coughed and moaned about how uncomfortable it was.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Thank goodness for common sense
QF and VA have banned the Knee Defender before anyone gets ideas
http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-virg...&utm_medium=flipper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

 

[SeatBackForward]

Thank goodness for common sense
QF and VA have banned the Knee Defender before anyone gets ideas
Qantas, Virgin Australia ban 'Knee Defender' - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

Ahh thanks for that, includes a photo of how they are used too. I think its wise to ban it - what would they do though? confiscate them?

 

[blackcat20]

Precious? Really? Obviously your needs to recline outweigh my needs to be as comfortable as possible on an uncomfortable long haul flight.

Learn to sleep upright and you won't need to worry. It is really simple. I did and now I can sleep anywhere.


You are joking? I walk through the cabin many times on each flight. The percentage of recliners to non recliners is fairly even. Maybe there are a few more recliners but I would suspect a lot of them are forced to recline.

My needs are important to me; I have a shoulder/back injury which means sitting upright on a flight is extremely uncomfortable. Even on a one hour flight, I have to recline a fraction to take the pressure off.

My 99% 'no issues' referred to dramas like planes being diverted. Most people just deal with it as part of long haul flying.

 

[farstar]

Ahh thanks for that, includes a photo of how they are used too. I think its wise to ban it - what would they do though? confiscate them?

Well the Article says.
"If the Knee Defending passenger refuses to obey this directive from the cabin crew they're in breach of the conditions of carriage, which opens them up actions which can include being restrained or removed from the flight, refused future travel on the airline and potentially prosecuted."

 

[dajop]

For some deja vu ... . just click on AFF's Advanced Search link. Two searches produce a range of threads remarkably similar to this one. In keywords search for "recline" (and select "Search Titles Only" ) and then do the same with the word "reclining".

Reclining vs non-reclining is one of the (insanely trivial) unresolvable conflicts of our time. I predict peace in the middle east before any resolution to this matter is forthcoming.

 

[JohnK]

Isn't it a case of one passenger needing to be as comfortable as possible versus another passenger needing to be as comfortable as possible?

Yes it is. There are going to be consequences either way. Learn to deal with them.

I don't have a problem with people reclining. Don't expect me to be friendly about it. I am not going out of my way to make your flight comfortable. I am going to use your seat as support when I get up. I am not going to tap the IFE screen lightly. I will put the tray table up and down as often as I like.

Life is just a game isn't it? Right?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Yes it is. There are going to be consequences either way. Learn to deal with them.

I don't have a problem with people reclining. Don't expect me to be friendly about it. I am not going out of my way to make your flight comfortable. I am going to use your seat as support when I get up. I am not going to tap the IFE screen lightly. I will put the tray table up and down as often as I like.

Life is just a game isn't it? Right?

That's one way of dealing with it. It could get rather uncomfortable for both of you if the passenger in front alerted the FA's to those actions.

 

[whatmeworry]

Mean while Monarch Airlines recently got rid of Reclining seats.

[h=1]Monarch bans reclining seats on all its planes after 90% of passengers vote to ditch them[/h]

Read more: Monarch Airlines bans reclining seats after 90% vote to ditch them | Mail Online
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Plus a funny video about the latest incident.

[video=youtube;DeWxzd0d-3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeWxzd0d-3c[/video]

 

[seanpodge]

Well the Article says.
"If the Knee Defending passenger refuses to obey this directive from the cabin crew they're in breach of the conditions of carriage, which opens them up actions which can include being restrained or removed from the flight, refused future travel on the airline and potentially prosecuted."

Pretty sure most/all airlines have a handy catch-all clause in their rules that they can whip out in cases such as this.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There is medical support for the proposition that seats should be reclined as it reduces pressure on the lower back. The old 'sit upright at 90 degrees' we have all learned with office furniture is now outdated thinking. BBC News - Sitting straight 'bad for backs'

As for the knee defender, I would think any passenger tampering or interfering with aircraft equipment would open themselves to trouble if they refused a crew member direction to remove it.

 

[JohnK]

That's one way of dealing with it. It could get rather uncomfortable for both of you if the passenger in front alerted the FA's to those actions.

My situation is hypothetical.

I have never been in that situation. I don't want to ever be in that situation. A friend of mine almost came to blows on a BA flight BKK-SYD a few years ago. No status and ended up down the back somewhere in a window seat. The English thug in front of him kept slamming his seat back. My friend is 6'6"? His knees kept copping a pounding. They had words a number times and the English thug threatened to smash my friend.

My solution is a simple one. Don't ever allow myself to sit in an airline seat behind someone. I have as much right to the space around me as the person who thinks they have a right to recline.

The airlines need to find a solution. Having seats that recline is not the solution.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My situation is hypothetical.

I have never been in that situation. I don't want to ever be in that situation. A friend of mine almost came to blows on a BA flight BKK-SYD a few years ago. No status and ended up down the back somewhere in a window seat. The English thug in front of him kept slamming his seat back. My friend is 6'6"? His knees kept copping a pounding. They had words a number times and the English thug threatened to smash my friend.

My solution is a simple one. Don't ever allow myself to sit in an airline seat behind someone. I have as much right to the space around me as the person who thinks they have a right to recline.

The airlines need to find a solution. Having seats that recline is not the solution.

You are probably too young to remember the old days when we used to have a single movie screen at the front of each cabin and all passengers reclined their seats during movies so everyone could get a good look at the screen (Singapore Airlines used to specifically ask all passengers to recline for this purpose). Everyone reclined and no one lost any space.

We never had any disagreements in those days!

 

[Princess Fiona]

My situation is hypothetical.

I have never been in that situation. I don't want to ever be in that situation. A friend of mine almost came to blows on a BA flight BKK-SYD a few years ago. No status and ended up down the back somewhere in a window seat. The English thug in front of him kept slamming his seat back. My friend is 6'6"? His knees kept copping a pounding. They had words a number times and the English thug threatened to smash my friend.

My solution is a simple one. Don't ever allow myself to sit in an airline seat behind someone. I have as much right to the space around me as the person who thinks they have a right to recline.

The airlines need to find a solution. Having seats that recline is not the solution.

Mine is too, as the chance of me sitting in front of you on a long haul flight in Y is about as likely as QF to offer me CL.

 

[whatmeworry]

I have actually once had a seat that was broken. So if you didn't know it was broken the seat, it would lurch back when you sat down. Well anyway it pissed off the person behind. Not my fault, but what could I do about a faulty reclining seat mechanism?

 

[JohnK]

You are probably too young to remember the old days when we used to have a single movie screen at the front of each cabin and all passengers reclined their seats during movies so everyone could get a good look at the screen (Singapore Airlines used to specifically ask all passengers to recline for this purpose). Everyone reclined and no one lost any space.

We never had any disagreements in those days!

Not that young. I do remember those days although I don't remember having to recline to watch the movie. From memory I didn't fly a lot in the 90's but did end up with exit rows on most flights.