PED's on/off during various flight stages - Why?

[The Rok]

Seems your passenger with his phone on was not alone……

Confession actor is just one of 6.5 million to admit to using a mobile in flight | | Holiday Extras Press Office

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Back to the first post of this thread - I was on a QF flight from BME to SYD a few years ago, I was in 1D, an older gentleman was in 1A. The flight just got off the runway, his mobile phone rang. He answered it and carried on the conversation for a few minutes. The FA sat facing me asked me whose phone was that, she could not get off the seat because everyone had to be seated for take-off. I pointed across the row. As soon as we were airborne she jumped off her seat and told the gentleman to turn his phone off straightaway!

I think it's very unfair for a crew member to place a passenger in the position of having to snitch on their fellow passengers. I think that is unAustralian.

the alternative would have been for the cabin attendant to address all passengers sitting in row 1 and 2 to remind them that mobiles are not to be used. or a gerneral PA announcement.

 

[rechoboam]

I think it's very unfair for a crew member to place a passenger in the position of having to snitch on their fellow passengers. I think that is unAustralian.

the alternative would have been for the cabin attendant to address all passengers sitting in row 1 and 2 to remind them that mobiles are not to be used. or a gerneral PA announcement.

Really? I feel the opposite way. I don't think the FA should even have to get involved. If someone is placing me in danger I would be happy to ask him to turn it off (politely) or even to gently remove it from his ear. For the record I dont believe that mobile phone use would really put me in danger but others probably disagree. Indeed there would be some people who would be absolutely terrified by the sound of a mobile phone in flight. Dont forget several terrorist attacks have been thwrted by alert passengers who reacted swiftly even though the terrorist might have turnd out to be just fiddling with his underwear or have fancy sneakers with flashing lights. When I travelled in Israel I saw how civilians were constantly looking after their own security and I dont think people should ever solely rely on the person in uniform to sort everything out.

 

[harvyk]

There are concerns too that a plane load of active handsets flying over a city could cause havoc to the mobile system (the fast moving handsets are 'seen' by many base stations). So in the USA the FCC bans their use in planes. But that's not the case in Australia: AMTA - Mobile Phones and Aircraft

A couple of years ago I went on the Shanghai Maglev, whilst not quite as fast as a plane, it's still pretty fast. I was trying to access the web and I noticed the faster we went the more difficulty it had connecting to the various base stations along the route until it finally gave up. If this was a real problem I'm sure they would have a no mobiles rule on high speed trains as well.

Also since there are many area's where base station ranges overlap (and a mobile which can see multiple base stations will keep changing depending on which station gives the best signal at that point in time) I find it difficult to believe that the fact that a fast moving mobile would actually cause havoc to mobile base stations, considering they are consistently having mobiles coming and going.

If crashing the mobile network was as easy as moving a mobile very quickly between towers, I'm sure some hacker (or terrorist) group would have by now built some devices which is designed to send signals all pretending to be from the same mobile and sent the signals to multiple towers at once and watched havoc unfold.

As for leaving devices on, I will always turn them to flight mode, and I will always turn off my phone, the iPad on the other hand I will sometimes leave it on (again in flight mode), but locked.

 

[oz_mark]

Also since there are many area's where base station ranges overlap (and a mobile which can see multiple base stations will keep changing depending on which station gives the best signal at that point in time) I find it difficult to believe that the fact that a fast moving mobile would actually cause havoc to mobile base stations, considering they are consistently having mobiles coming and going.

The issue the FCC in the US has with using mobiles on aircraft , is with the way channels are managed by the base stations.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A couple of years ago I went on the Shanghai Maglev, whilst not quite as fast as a plane, it's still pretty fast. I was trying to access the web and I noticed the faster we went the more difficulty it had connecting to the various base stations along the route until it finally gave up. If this was a real problem I'm sure they would have a no mobiles rule on high speed trains as well.

Also since there are many area's where base station ranges overlap (and a mobile which can see multiple base stations will keep changing depending on which station gives the best signal at that point in time) I find it difficult to believe that the fact that a fast moving mobile would actually cause havoc to mobile base stations, considering they are consistently having mobiles coming and going.

If crashing the mobile network was as easy as moving a mobile very quickly between towers, I'm sure some hacker (or terrorist) group would have by now built some devices which is designed to send signals all pretending to be from the same mobile and sent the signals to multiple towers at once and watched havoc unfold.

As for leaving devices on, I will always turn them to flight mode, and I will always turn off my phone, the iPad on the other hand I will sometimes leave it on (again in flight mode), but locked.

errr... various base stations along the route?? lol I didn't realize it had anything to do with that... I just thought there was no coverage for parts of the journey there are lots of times in china, even when traveling on the elevated freeway, that reception is cut out because of noise dampening measures in place. I thought it was the same for the maglev.

 

[risky]

I accidentally left my mobile on one time when i was flying, the sound in the headset of the phone tracking in on the base station and when a call came in was unbearable. Luckily I could reach into my flight bag behind and switch it off.

Sometimes if a nearby passenger has an active mobile device, you can hear the phone signals interfering with the active noise-cancelling headphones, and it is very annoying, but usually short-lived. It also only has minimal range (try it yourself with a mobile phone and a radio/speakers or similar - interference is a matter of meters only).

It seems highly unlikely that any electronic device not specifically designed to transmit (phone, wifi, bluetooth, walkie-talkie, etc) could have any significant (or even measurable) impact on avionics (and yes, that is an opinion without suitably researched links to back it up...) . And I suspect that even those devices that do transmit are unlikely to have much, if any, impact.

Once the airlines work out how to charge for on-board access to cellular femto-cells or similar running in the aircraft, you can bet any restrictions they have will be lifted!

PS: Whilst in the US last year, I recall these 2 events:
- During early stages of approach, I was told very officiously by the FA that I was not to use my compact digital camera at all, and to switch it off immediately. [Delta?]
- On a different flight, the passenger sitting next to me pulled out his notebook and stuck some sort of antenna/USB internet device onto the window to connect to the internet (mid-flight). [Eagle/AA]

 

[harvyk]

It seems highly unlikely that any electronic device not specifically designed to transmit (phone, wifi, bluetooth, walkie-talkie, etc) could have any significant (or even measurable) impact on avionics (and yes, that is an opinion without suitably researched links to back it up...) . And I suspect that even those devices that do transmit are unlikely to have much, if any, impact.

Not true, there are many devices out there which are not designed to transmit and yet they will cause interference to other electronic equipment.

Of course the question is would you be using such things on an aircraft?

 

[mannej]

Not true, there are many devices out there which are not designed to transmit and yet they will cause interference to other electronic equipment.

Of course the question is would you be using such things on an aircraft?

Flashing Christmas Tree Lights!:mrgreen:

 

[rechoboam]

Sometimes if a nearby passenger has an active mobile device, you can hear the phone signals interfering with the active noise-cancelling headphones, and it is very annoying, but usually short-lived. It also only has minimal range (try it yourself with a mobile phone and a radio/speakers or similar - interference is a matter of meters only).

It seems highly unlikely that any electronic device not specifically designed to transmit (phone, wifi, bluetooth, walkie-talkie, etc) could have any significant (or even measurable) impact on avionics (and yes, that is an opinion without suitably researched links to back it up...) . And I suspect that even those devices that do transmit are unlikely to have much, if any, impact.

Once the airlines work out how to charge for on-board access to cellular femto-cells or similar running in the aircraft, you can bet any restrictions they have will be lifted!

PS: Whilst in the US last year, I recall these 2 events:
- During early stages of approach, I was told very officiously by the FA that I was not to use my compact digital camera at all, and to switch it off immediately. [Delta?]
- On a different flight, the passenger sitting next to me pulled out his notebook and stuck some sort of antenna/USB internet device onto the window to connect to the internet (mid-flight). [Eagle/AA]

As I implied in my earlier post when passengers start attaching metal devices with wires to the windows they really need to be brought into line.

 

[nlagalle]

Sometimes if a nearby passenger has an active mobile device, you can hear the phone signals interfering with the active noise-cancelling headphones, and it is very annoying, but usually short-lived. It also only has minimal range (try it yourself with a mobile phone and a radio/speakers or similar - interference is a matter of meters only).

Having tested it myself if can be quite a few metres, over 10 without too much of a problem. That could easily put the interference noise in the coughpit. When it happened to me, the sound was overbearing.


It seems highly unlikely that any electronic device not specifically designed to transmit (phone, wifi, bluetooth, walkie-talkie, etc) could have any significant (or even measurable) impact on avionics (and yes, that is an opinion without suitably researched links to back it up...) . And I suspect that even those devices that do transmit are unlikely to have much, if any, impact.

There is a case where an inflight issue was caused by a mobile phone. Don't have the link handy though.

 

[Flashback]

There is a case where an inflight issue was caused by a mobile phone. Don't have the link handy though.

I've been on flights before where the cabin crew has almost been able to exactly pinpoint where a mobile phone has still been switched in ; normally left in the overhead locker with the owner not realising / having forgotten about it. I know I've forgotten once or twice!

 

[spentan]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

This thread has been about what it means when the FA/FO/Cap'n says to put it in flight mode and turn it off.

This is obviously so that if you turn it on (to use it in-flight), then it will not start communicating/using its communication abilities.

I personally have a different opinion, it involves Bluetooth Headphones and one ear on and one ear off during take-off/landing (so that I can hear and I do listen/pay attention to the crew during the safety announcement).

The concept of not being able to use electronic devices on planes is silly, if not stupid. A little iPod Shuffle, even an iPhone/iPad, even a laptop with wifi, a device with bluetooth, or a GPS Receiver (because you have to be a satellite to broadcast) is in no way shape or form going to affect any other electronic devices on an aircraft. If that were the case, a terrorist or saboteur could very easily "turn on their laptop" and the plane goes down. I think not.

I can't understand people wanting the sanctuary of a plane to relax. I loved being onboard the A380 with WiFi where I could stay connected on Facebook and be able to communicate with my parents on the plane via Facetime (I did it from the A380 Business lounge, was speaking no louder than I would be if I was speaking to someone next to me. For my dad who's never been on an A380 (despite having achieved Qantas LTS), it was awesome.) There was no-one else in the J lounge at the time.

Its more about people being inconsiderate about the people around them, but its no different to speaking to the person next to them. (If they've been taught that speaking louder into a phone microphone doesn't help anyone hear you).

Feel free to disagree with my opinion. The fact that the FAA has approved iPad use (as replacement for flight bags - American Airlines approves iPad as flight bag replacement, starting Friday | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence). Another thing which I like and use is that you can use Bluetooth and/or WiFi while being in Flight mode on an iPad or iPhone.

The best scenario is using my iPad, which is in my bag, playing music to my BT Headphones (also marketed as travel headphones, Sennheiser MM550 (Noise Cancelling/BT)), and having my bag in the overhead locker

 

[JohnK]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I can't understand people wanting the sanctuary of a plane to relax. I loved being onboard the A380 with WiFi where I could stay connected on Facebook and be able to communicate with my parents on the plane via Facetime (I did it from the A380 Business lounge, was speaking no louder than I would be if I was speaking to someone next to me. For my dad who's never been on an A380 (despite having achieved Qantas LTS), it was awesome.) There was no-one else in the J lounge at the time.

Its more about people being inconsiderate about the people around them, but its no different to speaking to the person next to them. (If they've been taught that speaking louder into a phone microphone doesn't help anyone hear you).

You may well be a responsible person but most people have no idea and don't care.

I see the morons every day get on the train with music blaring from their headphones. I don't want to listen to it. I should not have to listen to it. They should know better.

Then there are the seemingly pointless phone calls (including in the quiet carriages) to show off? I don't understand. I am not interested.

So perhaps I am being selfish but I would rather a responsible person do without gadgets on a flight than an irresponsible person ruining my flight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

I think the tragic example of pedestrians being struck by cars or trains simply because they didn't hear them is proof enough that electronic devices should not be used during critical stages of flight when an emergency evacuation might be required. Especially if that involves headphones.

 

[spentan]

Re: Approaches for dealing with 'electronic devices off'

You may well be a responsible person but most people have no idea and don't care.

I see the morons every day get on the train with music blaring from their headphones. I don't want to listen to it. I should not have to listen to it. They should know better.

Then there are the seemingly pointless phone calls (including in the quiet carriages) to show off? I don't understand. I am not interested.

So perhaps I am being selfish but I would rather a responsible person do without gadgets on a flight than an irresponsible person ruining my flight.

There is a 3rd option. I (as a responsible person) can do it. If it disturbs anyone, I am more than happy to stop if asked/advised to by the FA. I will always comply to an FA's instruction, even a fellow passenger if what I am doing is disturbing them. Being 6ft9in tall and 175kg means I'm usually at the pointy end of the plane and therefore they don't really seem to have a problem with it (or they're intimidated by my size lol)

An example of this is where someone on my LA-SYD flight was watching Game of Thrones and there was quite a bit of nudity/violence. Should he be banned from using his laptop because he has the ability to deal with offensive material?

I think the tragic example of pedestrians being struck by cars or trains simply because they didn't hear them is proof enough that electronic devices should not be used during critical stages of flight when an emergency evacuation might be required. Especially if that involves headphones.

I see people with headphones on all the time. This is why, during take off and landing, I keep one ear off. If im not allowed to read my iPad during take off then at least let me listen to some music.

Being Bluetooth headphones, it's funny when an elderly gentleman next to me commented and said oh you're bopping to music but nothing is connected to your headphones. I easily told him that there is music playing, he was like "oh ok". Mustve thought they were headphones with a built in mp3 player.

 

[ashleyn]

... and switching all electronic devices off seems to exclude digital cameras which I often see being used, in full view of the crew, during take-off and landing.

Cameras do not emit any kind of signal.

 

[spentan]

Cameras do not emit any kind of signal.

Neither do most gps units, ipod nano, iPod shuffle, iPod classic, Or a phone/device in flight mode.

New cameras have wifi and/or Bluetooth.

 

[Flashback]

Cameras do not emit any kind of signal.

I don't know if it applies to all planes but certainly on the A380 you are allowed to use them during takeoff/landing.

 

[DeKa]

I have a suspicion that phones or networks have improved a bit in the last few years. With older mobiles I used to get regular interference noises on my car radio or in headsets, but haven't really heard the noise for a couple of years.

It always made me wonder if there was a problem with noise in pilot headsets that may make them miss instructions....

Not improved, just changed. 2G is Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) and you're hearing the timing pulses I believe. 3G is Wideband Code Division Multiple Access (WCDMA) so you don't hear that duck duck duck daaaaarrrrk duck duck type sound with 3G handsets.