Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[kpc]

One issue we see is when Members use Qantas lounge facilities and then fly with competitors on the same day. This increases crowding for Members who are flying with us on the day and also gives our competitors a free kick. As you know, anytime lounge access is a particularly unique feature within our program.

I appreciate your post. However, I don't think Platinum members using the QF lounge and then flying another airline ("anytime" access) is giving the opposition a free kick. Remember, how much loyal flying (and revenue) has been directed to QF over the preceeding year to gain Platinum status. For me personally, that is around 30K in travel (Syd-Eze J return, Syd-Lax-Yvr J return, Syd-Wel J return, Syd-Adl J return, Syd-Akl J return + a few other domestic QF Y flights, and a few domestic flights on partner Lan in Y within Argentina). After all this, on the odd occasions I might be flying the opposition (usually not by choice), is it not unreasonable for me to pop in to the QF lounge for a drink or two?

May I suggest the overcrowding in the QF lounge is related to the number of QF club memberships sold as opposed to QF plat members accessing the QF lounge on the basis of "Anytime" access.

However, we have taken your feedback onboard and are happy to make adjustments to this policy and we’re also pleased to let you know about it first!

From 1 February 2011, to access Qantas Domestic or International lounges, Platinum Members must be travelling the same day on a flight that shows on a Qantas (QF), a Jetstar Airline (Jetstar (JQ), Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF)) or a oneworld® flight number on your ticket. Other lounge access conditions apply. See Qantas Club Terms and Conditions.
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In doing so, Platinum Frequent Flyers will continue to be welcome to use our lounges to freshen up or whilst waiting for colleagues or friends arriving on other flights. We have also specifically noted Jetstar Asia (3K) and Valuair (VF) as included carriers in the definition.

Allowing arrival access is a step back in the right direction, and is appreciated. Maybe as a goodwill gesture, moving forwards QF could give Plat members say 5 passes per membership year that they could use themselves anytime (with no guests allowed) without flying QF, J* etc?

I still hope that 'anytime access' for platinum status will be reinstated, even if a cap was applied.

I agree - see above.

 

[marki]

This is slightly OT, but it is a bigger kick in the face to an elite QF frequent flyer when he/she cannot find an award ticket 100-200-300 whatever days out before flying because QF has decided to release only 1 premium seat, which was already snapped up the first minute of its release some 350 days ago! Yes I realise that there is the Any Seat Award but paying upwards of 2million points for that same flight is extortion-like.

And then the winning kick in the face, is when I hear QF staff and/or their family/friends flying in the premium cabin when I and many other 'real' flyers cannot even get access to that seat.

Yes this happens very often. 4-5 times in the last 30 days. I have written about staff taking up Business class seats to QFF service desk. I have had no reply to date.(interesting). These seats were blocked and unavailable to FF like myself. Yet staff were blocking these revenue seats. They were last to board and in full kitted uniform. I was earlier told in QC no seats are available!
At another time the whole business section of a 737 flight was empty and staff were unwilling to give an upgrade for points as it was 30 minutes shy of boarding. You go figure ? Throwing revenue away? The QFF points are devalued by Qantas themselves doing this. Remember they have a battle to undo the damage done by Qantas suffering a horror year in 2008 as delays and maintenance problems battered its reputation with travellers. Up to a third of its planes ran late and cancellations rocketed as a result of an industrial row with engineers.The airline also suffered two high-profile accidents that year, when an oxygen bottle exploded on a jumbo jet near Manilla and a computer malfunction caused an Airbus A330 to unexpectedly nose dive twice over Western Australia.

so I agree it is a kick in the face.

 

[oz_mark]

IMHO the kicker to make this just that little better for Platinum's and still achieve your aims would be to still allow the Platinum FFs into the lounge if their guests were travelling on that day. ie I take my mother/daughter or whom ever to catch a flight and I can take them into the lounge whilst waiting for their QF (or affiliated) flight.

I can just see it.

Across Australia, hundreds of once a year travellers hang around outside the Qantas Clubs, hoping to be a guest of platinum member in need of a 'friend' travelling that day. :shock:

 

[PineappleSkip]

Welcome also Red Roo

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when you were deciding on your moniker, and whether one of the options you discarded was a small furry animal

And hopefully the lounge staff will exercise commonsense when travelling PER-MEL/SYD/BNE on the red-eye that, during daylight saving at least, departs PER the day before

I think that would be a very worthwhile addition to or clarification of your policy, or at least to your interpretation of it. Whilst most lounge people are rather more sophisticated than the denizens of security checks, I'm doubtful that commonsense would always be present among some dragons.

Cheers skip

 

[morgs]

Firstly - It's great to see that someone from Qantas is actually listening and responding to some on the complaints raised here (its more than I can say for responses to the feedback forms on the Qantas website!).

I'm based in Jakarta, and posted a question on here a week or so ago, about switching my loyalty to Singapore Airlines, as they are much more convenient in this region. The ONLY thing that we keeping me loyal to Qantas was the anytime access for Platinum. Now that has gone, and there's not much difference between Gold and Platinum - looks like I'll now split and get gold on both SQ and QF. It's a pitty - especially after being Platinum for many years now - but I guess if you push your most loyal customers hard enough they will start voting with their feet.

P.S. SQ have such great service too

Morgs

 

[medhead]

May I suggest the overcrowding in the QF lounge is related to the number of QF club memberships sold as opposed to QF plat members accessing the QF lounge on the basis of "Anytime" access.

Your welcome to suggest that. But to do so ignores the history of the Qantas Club. It was originally a paid membership lounge. Without the support of those people stumping up the cash in the first place would Qantas have made a profit and decided to provide complementary membership when status was introduced later? I certainly found the lounge to be much better without all those statused people in there.

Then there is the situation that someone who pays for membership is not flying that much and so will hardly ever be in the lounge. In my case, I might have been in the lounge 6 times a year, now that I have free membership I'm in there twice a week.

In any case, I won't suggest cutting access for either group I would suggest making people value the access better. A good starting point would be with the excessive guest allowance. Guest passes with the annual number issued to a member increasing with status level and perhaps extras avaliable for purchase by points or cash. Maybe even extra guest passes issued at the higher status levels (2400, 3000, etc.)

I also like the limited number of anytime pass suggestion.

Really, I don't know why it is so hard for qantas management to get this stuff right. Bean counters?

 

[PineappleSkip]

I certainly found the lounge to be much better without all those statused people in there.

+1 . BNE DOM feels more like a crib room than a lounge sometimes:-|

 

[Alanslegal]

I appreciate your post. However, I don't think Platinum members using the QF lounge and then flying another airline ("anytime" access) is giving the opposition a free kick. Remember, how much loyal flying (and revenue) has been directed to QF over the preceeding year to gain Platinum status.

And that's what the people currently behind the scenes at QF are totally ignore. A Platinum member does not wake up one sunny morning and attain that status, it's through alot of flying and flying with QF (and OW) - and then you attain/retain Platinum. It's not the other way, where one attains status and then makes a choice if they want to fly QF (or another competitior).

The bigger thing that annoys me is that Qantas tries to spin this as enhancement. Come on, from UNCONDITIONAL anytime access to CONDITIONAL access ... this is a decent downgrade even if you don't use this benefit. And then QF spins it better than legendary Shane Warne's leg breakers, saying that this change is necessary because Platinums were HOGGING space in the lounges when they weren't flying or that it a kick in their face because they chose to earn 1400sc/1200sc's with QF first and then decided to take the annual family holiday with Tiger because they were selling $1 cheapie tickets vs. 100x that price if flying with Qantas.

 

[JohnK]

Welcome to AFF Red Roo.

Nice gesture although it is only a tiny compromise on previous benefits and still not happy that anytime access to lounges has been removed for Platinums.

I do ~100 flights a year of which ~80 (possibly more) are on QF. I have earned Platinum status the hard way and Qantas is not always the cheapest especially around holiday time including school holidays. I don't think I add to the overcrowding when I do fly the opposition.

Recent examples are using the SIN Business Lounge before an SQ flight SIN-BKK and there were only 3 people in the lounge at the time I was in there. And then using the BKK Business Lounge again flying SQ BKK-SIN where there was less than 10 people in the lounge. There are not a lot of suitable options flying SIN-BKK and vv and it was nice to be able to use the lounge as a Platinum. Extremely disappointing that this benefit has now been removed.

Thank you for acknowledging and changing the conditions based on feedback. Personally, I still don't feel any-time access adds that much stress to the system. I'm sure QF have numbers that justify their change of policy in the first place.

Where would QF get these numbers unless people were voluntarily providing the information. You walk into the lounge and show your Platinum card and the lounge staff have no idea which flight you are on. Where else would Qantas get this information?

May I suggest the overcrowding in the QF lounge is related to the number of QF club memberships sold as opposed to QF plat members accessing the QF lounge on the basis of "Anytime" access.

Sounds like a reasonable assumption. Qantas is selling more and more Qantas Club memberships every year yet the size of the lounges has not increased in most airports around Australia.

This will definitely result in overcrowding.

And the Platinum taking his brother to the lounge on a Saturday night to use the internet and do some printing and have a couple of diet cokes is not really hurting Qantas' bottom line.

Which Platinum benefit would be next to go?

 

[Smackbum]

This is typical (as Basil Fawlty would say).

This thread seem to start off as a petulant tantrum of Platinums who simultaneously screamed about the removal of anytime access whilst claiming they hardly ever used it. But in between the pages of threats to swap loyalty to other airlines or guest total strangers into the lounge in revenge (WTF!), there were a few sensible posts about why access on arrival is justified. As I said at the start lounge access should logically be tied to actually flying, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that Qantas came back with that very compromise.

Well that's settled then and we can move on? In a word, no.

Instead of handshakes all round and invitations to clinch the deal over a last anytime access beer, we instead get more pages of "Thanks, but ....."

If I was the Red Roo I would be inclined to rescind the offer because it is obvious that some people will never be happy, and if they do take their business elsewhere (which I doubt) it will be no great loss.

 

[dfcatch]

Your welcome to suggest that. But to do so ignores the history of the Qantas Club. It was originally a paid membership lounge. Without the support of those people stumping up the cash in the first place would Qantas have made a profit and decided to provide complementary membership when status was introduced later? I certainly found the lounge to be much better without all those statused people in there.

Then there is the situation that someone who pays for membership is not flying that much and so will hardly ever be in the lounge. In my case, I might have been in the lounge 6 times a year, now that I have free membership I'm in there twice a week.

In any case, I won't suggest cutting access for either group I would suggest making people value the access better. A good starting point would be with the excessive guest allowance. Guest passes with the annual number issued to a member increasing with status level and perhaps extras avaliable for purchase by points or cash. Maybe even extra guest passes issued at the higher status levels (2400, 3000, etc.)

I also like the limited number of anytime pass suggestion.

Really, I don't know why it is so hard for qantas management to get this stuff right. Bean counters?

I agree 100% with medhead.

You can't knock the QP members, firstly there is an argument that they have a higher right of access than SG/WP. Perhaps we should go the AA route and even status pax need to pay QP fees (and could be given a new benefit such as SWU vouchers in place of the current complimentary QP membership).
Besides, WP still have access to Domestic Business Lounge.

To be clear - I'm NOT suggesting that (don't get any ideas Red Roo).

However, the problem can be solved by going back to the old guest pass system. Totally ridiculous that I fly regularly without using my guest entitlement, and yet can't take my parents both in with me when taking them overseas.

For those with partners who benefit from always accompanying their QP/SG/WP spouse - they either:
- don't fly that much and can use the guest vouchers.
- fly a medium amount and can purchase a guest card
- fly a lot and have SG status in their own right.
- have a WP spouse that flys a lot and can give them PG.

 

[markis10]

Sounds like a reasonable assumption. Qantas is selling more and more Qantas Club memberships every year yet the size of the lounges has not increased in most airports around Australia.

Where do you get that "fact"" from John?

AFAIK QF has not increased it paid lounge membership numbers at all, in fact they have declined since the major lounge expansion program in 1998 thanks to more levels of the FF program getting "complimentary" membership. There was a significant spurt in 2001 when there was a rush of Golden Wing Members, but luckily the new clubs at BNE and MEL had just opened.

I also dont subscribe to the sweeping statement that the lounges have not increased at most airports at Australia, in the last 10 years domestically (lets not forget the SYD/MEL INT changes):

Brisbane - Tripled in size and opened in 2000 or so (the old one is opposite gate 23/24 and visible from checkin).
Sydney - doubled in size, addition of new lounge in T2.
Melbourne - Tripled in size.
Adelaide - 4X increase when new terminal opened, also took over GW lounge prior.
Canberra - 2X increase and now has a J lounge which was separate space.
Perth - 2X in capacity
Townsville - 3x capacity
Cairns DOM - 4X capacity
Mackay - Added a toilet

Longer term WPs/SGs or QP members would be very much aware of the changes and improvements Qantas has made over time to cater for their increasing "free" member base, I dont believe the Qantas club is a money spinner based on membership fees, however it is an important part of the FF scheme as well and Qantas have shown significant investment.

 

[dfcatch]

And in terms of the suggestion that members are ungrateful for QF's compromise on arrivals usage.

No one is ungrateful, in fact quite the opposite. We are all over the moon that some level of commonsense compromise has prevailed.

The issue that has everyone riled up, is the concern that QF doesn't take the approach of giving something back if they take something away.

Instead, there is an appreciable sentiment of benefits simply being taken away, and then "marketed" as "enhancements".

It's all a matter of approach, and "framing".

 

[Austman]

Thanks and welcome Red Roo

Like some others here, I also think it would be good if:

¶ From 1 February 2011, to access Qantas Domestic or International lounges, Platinum members must be travelling the same day on a flight that shows Qantas (QF), a Jetstar Airline (Jetstar (JQ), Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF)) or a oneworld® flight number on your ticket. Other lounge access conditions apply. See Qantas Club Terms and Conditions.

could be changed to:

¶ From 1 February 2011, to access Qantas Domestic or International lounges, Platinum members or one guest must be travelling the same day on a flight that shows Qantas (QF), a Jetstar Airline (Jetstar (JQ), Jetstar Asia (3K) or Valuair (VF)) or a oneworld® flight number on your ticket. Other lounge access conditions apply. See Qantas Club Terms and Conditions.

It would still end the any time access but would allow Platinums to take QF/JQ/3K/VF/oneworld® travelling guests into the QC before or after their flight.

 

[pauly7]

Where do you get that "fact"" from John?

AFAIK QF has not increased it paid lounge membership numbers at all, in fact they have declined since the major lounge expansion program in 1998 thanks to more levels of the FF program getting "complimentary" membership. There was a significant spurt in 2001 when there was a rush of Golden Wing Members, but luckily the new clubs at BNE and MEL had just opened.

I also dont subscribe to the sweeping statement that the lounges have not increased at most airports at Australia, in the last 10 years domestically (lets not forget the SYD/MEL INT changes):

Brisbane - Tripled in size and opened in 2000 or so (the old one is opposite gate 23/24 and visible from checkin).
Sydney - doubled in size, addition of new lounge in T2.
Melbourne - Tripled in size.
Adelaide - 4X increase when new terminal opened, also took over GW lounge prior.
Canberra - 2X increase and now has a J lounge which was separate space.
Perth - 2X in capacity
Townsville - 3x capacity
Cairns DOM - 4X capacity
Mackay - Added a toilet

Qantas have shown significant investment.

Thanks markis10 for a rational response (seem to be lacking in this thread). I was just about to point this out as well but you beat me to it!

Don't underestimate the value of the Mackay lounge expansion!!

The hysteria in this thread keeps elevating... Fair to say I'm actually beginning to hope some members jump over DJ and vacate the QF forum (jokes.... Kinda!)

Also finally a welcome and thanks to Red Roo.

Although I don't really care about anytime access, as I suspect most 'everyday' WP's do not either - hopefully your well thought out compromise helps some people through their distress...

 

[oz_mark]

It would still end the any time access but would allow Platinums to take QF/JQ/3K/VF/oneworld® travelling guests into the QC before or after their flight.

That is just platinums trying to spin a loophole. How hard would it be to find a random 'guest' at the airport so ytou can effectively get any-time access?

 

[jakeseven7]

Where do you get that "fact"" from John?

Longer term WPs/SGs or QP members would be very much aware of the changes and improvements Qantas has made over time to cater for their increasing "free" member base, I dont the Qantas club is a money spinner based on membership fees, however it is an important part of the FF scheme as well and Qantas have shown significant investment.

Great SENSIBLE post!

The hysteria in this thread keeps elevating... Fair to say I'm actually beginning to hope some members jump over DJ and vacate the QF forum (jokes.... Kinda!)

To be honest, I doubt they will - its all hot air.

Plus being a DJ gold is hard work (I'm both DJ and QF SG), they really aren't ready to match QF on, well pretty much anything in my opinion. Once people have a close look at the program and business as it stands right now, they will stick with QF trust me. Don't get me wrong I don't mind DJ but they have a long long way to go..... Wont go any further OT than that!

 

[djfuzz]

That is just platinums trying to spin a loophole. How hard would it be to find a random 'guest' at the airport so ytou can effectively get any-time access?

Spinning a loophole? With respect ozmark, QF seems to be doing all of the 'spinning' at the moment, calling the removal of a benefit an 'enhancement'.

I'm a little surprised at the hostility towards WPs expressing concern over the revocation of what is a pretty significant differentiator of QFF over both its competitors and partners. Without it, there's one less reason not to accrue miles to AAdvantage instead, for example, let alone any genuine competitors such as DJ.

QF clearly seems to be concerned about giving its competitors a 'free kick', without giving much (if any) consideration to the halo effect of granting WPs the ability to bring in / wait for their guests when not flying themselves. At MEL T1 and SYD T3, going to the QP when flying a competitor is so inconvenient that I'd be really surprised if many WPs actually used them in this way (not least because of extra trips through security and no flight info).

In fact, I'd be curious to see the attitude from SGs if QFF had decided to revoke complimentary QC membership and go 'full AAdvantage' with paid memberships only - or, even more harsh, complimentary membership for WPs only. I'm actually kind of surprised they didn't do this, and I imagine it's only a matter of time. :-|

 

[medhead]

This is typical (as Basil Fawlty would say).

This thread seem to start off as a petulant tantrum of Platinums who simultaneously screamed about the removal of anytime access whilst claiming they hardly ever used it. But in between the pages of threats to swap loyalty to other airlines or guest total strangers into the lounge in revenge (WTF!), there were a few sensible posts about why access on arrival is justified. As I said at the start lounge access should logically be tied to actually flying, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that Qantas came back with that very compromise.

Well that's settled then and we can move on? In a word, no.

Instead of handshakes all round and invitations to clinch the deal over a last anytime access beer, we instead get more pages of "Thanks, but ....."

If I was the Red Roo I would be inclined to rescind the offer because it is obvious that some people will never be happy, and if they do take their business elsewhere (which I doubt) it will be no great loss.

I can only assume that, like Basil Fawlty, your post is supposed to be funny. Mainly because usually when Basil says that's typical, he is actually wrong.

It is great that Qantas have listened to their most loyal customers and slightly altered their decision. In doing this they have provided reasons for the original decision that just don't stack up. I can be thankful that they have listened; That doesn't mean that I will ignore the tenuous link between anytime access and the reasons given for it's removal.

Far from being a petulant tantrum, it is justified to question the value that Qantas places on my loyalty as a result of these changes. You might consider that a petulant tantrum but I call it a rational comparison of the benefit that I'll recieve compared to the extra cost of doing all those extra flights with Qantas. This is not about happy or otherwise, this is about reassessing my situation in light of the changes that Qantas have made. All good businesses reassess in changed curcumstances, Why can't I?

Frankly, I find your accusations of petulance (and whatever terms you threw around earlier) devalue my situation, experience and needs. Perhaps you might consider your own situation rather than try to devalue others.

I also find your accusations of pertulance and exclamations about switching airlines and guesting strangers hard to reconcile with your later suggestion to "clinch the deal over a last anytime access beer". I do hope that you would be flying when you "clinch the deal".

 

[medhead]

Plus being a DJ gold is hard work (I'm both DJ and QF SG),

How hard? As hard as getting QF Platinum over QF Gold?

I've got good statistics on my flying. I've already booked QF Gold for the coming year and my budgeted unbooked flights are enough for DJ Gold. I know that I will be flying DJ at some stage, so if I want lounge access across all my flying then it looks like I need to switch some flying from Qantas to DJ.