Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[Austman]

That is just platinums trying to spin a loophole. How hard would it be to find a random 'guest' at the airport so ytou can effectively get any-time access?

It's not this platinum trying so spin a loophole. It's this platinum accepting that any time access is going to go, but that dropping off or collecting genuine guests that travel on QF/JQ/3K/VF/oneworld® would be keeping an excellent Platinum benefit that still has the competitor's "free kick" factor removed.

I'm just trying to figure out how it could be done...

 

[markis10]

How hard? As hard as getting QF Platinum over QF Gold?

I've got good statistics on my flying. I've already booked QF Gold for the coming year

You do only need 4 flights on QF metal or codeshare to get Gold next year once your Platinum , an often overlooked benefit albeit an unpublished one.

 

[oz_mark]

Spinning a loophole? With respect ozmark, QF seems to be doing all of the 'spinning' at the moment, calling the removal of a benefit an 'enhancement'.

Provide evidence that Qantas have called this an 'enhancement'.

I'm a little surprised at the hostility towards WPs expressing concern over the revocation of what is a pretty significant differentiator of QFF over both its competitors and partners. Without it, there's one less reason not to accrue miles to AAdvantage instead, for example, let alone any genuine competitors such as DJ.

My comment was not meant to be hostile - it was just pointing out what I thought was a obvious flaw in the idea.

QF clearly seems to be concerned about giving its competitors a 'free kick', without giving much (if any) consideration to the halo effect of granting WPs the ability to bring in / wait for their guests when not flying themselves. At MEL T1 and SYD T3, going to the QP when flying a competitor is so inconvenient that I'd be really surprised if many WPs actually used them in this way (not least because of extra trips through security and no flight info).

If the benefit is so little used, why is it aggravating the platinums so much. Perhaps it is more of an issue on international flights (which is the only time I took advantage of any time access), where you are past all the checkpoints.

(I suspect though, in this case, they are flying competitors as Qantas/JQ/one world doesn't go where they are going

In fact, I'd be curious to see the attitude from SGs if QFF had decided to revoke complimentary QC membership and go 'full AAdvantage' with paid memberships only - or, even more harsh, complimentary membership for WPs only. I'm actually kind of surprised they didn't do this, and I imagine it's only a matter of time. :-|

It would make for rather quiet Qantas clubs I would have thought. With all the recent investment in expanding the clubs, I would think it unlikely that it will happen anytime soon.

 

[dk4]

Once people have a close look at the program and business as it stands right now, they will stick with QF trust me. Don't get me wrong I don't mind DJ but they have a long long way to go..... Wont go any further OT than that!

That Crazy DJ Dave, made an interesting acknowledgement in some post the other day... recognising that moving forward DJ does not simply need to match QF, but exceed them to encourage churn.

This is a SUBSTANTIAL change from DJ's previous market position of being "slightly less than" the QF offer. And perhaps the trigger for changes at QFF, to ensure WPs aren't lured to trial a brand, one which many have been traditionally hostile toward.

Years ago the QFF WP stance was (and a paraphrase, as I don't have the original handy) "...we recognise that sometimes your travel plans mean that you can't fly Qantas, so as one of our most loyal customers we would like to offer you anytime access..."

Of course Priority Pass currently offers "any airline" pre-departure access to Virgin Blue Lounges, as well as a comprehensive international network of lounges. (It is just a pity that UA closed its lounge at SYD T1.)

 

[jakeseven7]

How hard? As hard as getting QF Platinum over QF Gold?

I've got good statistics on my flying. I've already booked QF Gold for the coming year and my budgeted unbooked flights are enough for DJ Gold. I know that I will be flying DJ at some stage, so if I want lounge access across all my flying then it looks like I need to switch some flying from Qantas to DJ.

Apologies medhead, I wasn't very clear. I wasn't directly referring to qualifying, more using 'hard work' as it used in the vernacular.... i.e. 'Gee my brother is hard work sometimes'.... which is true as well!

Having lots of travel on both DJ and QF, I find DJ still is 'hard work' overall v Qantas. I wont go into detail on the metal/business/lounge side as this is all about the FF programs mostly - Velocity is REALLY hard work, I have issues with the very basics like flights posting, difficult to clarify rules/fare codes and you can forget shop to earn.

I know DJ have HUGE plans to overcome a lot of this - and I look forward to this HUGELY, my point being is that they really don't measure up at this point in time and you only really realise this when you begin using them as frequently as I do. They aren't bad at all, just a bit 'annoying' to fly sometimes.


But I don't want to get too off topic and interrupt the tears

 

[jakeseven7]

That Crazy DJ Dave, made an interesting acknowledgement in some post the other day... recognising that moving forward DJ does not simply need to match QF, but exceed them to encourage churn.
)

Thats great, not really new news though, JB has been saying it for months..

They have alot of work to do.... and the metal issues/lounges will take time to improve. I'm hoping in about 2 years we might see a more comparable DJ....

 

[markis10]

Having lots of travel on both DJ and QF, I find DJ still is 'hard work' overall v Qantas. I wont go into detail on the metal/business/lounge side as this is all about the FF programs mostly - Velocity is REALLY hard work, I have issues with the very basics like flights posting, difficult to clarify rules/fare codes and you can forget shop to earn.

I agree the basics are lacking with Velocity, while I have not tried the new booking system, the old system would not display my bookings in velocity unless the number was there at the time of booking, adding it later did not change the display. I think I had 4 flights where I had to chase credits as well.

Back to QF........If I had a choice between anytime access and anyseat awards that earn points/SCs (in other words losing something to gain something) I would take ASA's any day. What I am trying to say is that its not all been bad news this year, for which we can be thankful.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I’m from Qantas Marketing .......

Firstly I’d like to thank you all for your honest and candid feedback. The collective knowledge here on loyalty programs here is arguably worth at least a few PhDs

....however it’s fair to say that there has been some vigorous discussion on the change in Platinum lounge access policy. The challenge we face is striking a balance between offering reasonable lounge access, whilst not overcrowding the lounges.

Overcrowding is a good problem - it means you have more Platinum's than ever before and cashing in on their spend to help the bottom line. It means Qantas marketing is working effectively!

While I can't see anytime access to international lounges being any problem for QF (different terminals for airlines, international flights required to access etc), domestically I can appreciate that if there is an issue it may need to be addressed.

To understand this, we need to stop and think about WHY there might be more Platinums using the biz lounge (domestically) if they are not flying QF... (note: if normal QC is overcroweded it's clearly not platinums and more a result of overselling QC memberships).

a) Already retained platinum for the year and see no further value in crediting to QF. (EG: there is nothing else worth shooting for.)
b) QF price of the day is too high or company policy was used to book flights.
c) See no value in being platinum flying QF domestically.

This comes back to 2 points - either:-

(a) Qantas Corporate Sales have failed to identify the need to offer the company more longer term incentive to fly QF.

OR

(b) Platinums are not treated like valued passengers domestically, and therefore shift spending habits once top tier is retained.

Neither of these *actual problems* are solved by limiting or restricting anytime access. Infact, but putting any restriction at all on lounge access only magnifies the flaws in this proposed change.

In doing so, Platinum Frequent Flyers will continue to be welcome to use our lounges to freshen up or whilst waiting for colleagues or friends arriving on other flights. We have also specifically noted Jetstar Asia (3K) and Valuair (VF) as included carriers in the definition.

This does not address or solve the problem at hand - here's why:-

Think about how Apple generates soo much buzz about their products; they get small yet powerful pockets of their most savvy and engaging customers, arm them with knowledge and let them run free - influencing the world around them. Pick up any business book and this message will scream at you.

The reason for Qantas's success is exactly this. Platinums talk about the amazing lounges to their friends, family and anyone else travelling.

Consider the following example: Platinum member takes parents in law to the airport for their once a year trip to European destination. Helps them check in and takes them to the business lounge pre-flight. PIL are impressed at both their son/daughter in law (+points) and equally impressed with QF for the lounge which they may have never been in before (+points for QF).

Their ticket may never have been booked with QF if it were not for the Platinum member knowing they could take advantage of anytime access. ++Win for QF in both revenue and virual buzz.

Clearly little to no research was done on why platinums use anytime access. This is a fail by Qantas and should have been the first point of call. Next problem QF would face is - why would anyone give real reasons, in fear of being denied access.

There ^^^ is some of the phD material you are after Qantas. You owe this site big time.

To protect the bottom line in the long term you need to play smart and think 5 steps ahead. I guarantee your competitors are. Do you want to give them a free kick 2m from the goal line? Making any changes to anytime access is doing exactly that.

 

[medhead]

Apologies medhead, I wasn't very clear. I wasn't directly referring to qualifying, more using 'hard work' as it used in the vernacular.... i.e. 'Gee my brother is hard work sometimes'.... which is true as well!

Having lots of travel on both DJ and QF, I find DJ still is 'hard work' overall v Qantas. I wont go into detail on the metal/business/lounge side as this is all about the FF programs mostly - Velocity is REALLY hard work, I have issues with the very basics like flights posting, difficult to clarify rules/fare codes and you can forget shop to earn.

I know DJ have HUGE plans to overcome a lot of this - and I look forward to this HUGELY, my point being is that they really don't measure up at this point in time and you only really realise this when you begin using them as frequently as I do. They aren't bad at all, just a bit 'annoying' to fly sometimes.

No apology needed. It fact I should apologise for not understanding. properly.

I agree it is hard work, I'm still waiting for my Flight last Tuesday to post. Due to the computer issues on Wednesday, I think I can understand that I'm going to have to claim. But usually it takes 3 days in my experience, which isn't bad but is slightly annoying. Lets hope the changes are good.

 

[djfuzz]

My comment was not meant to be hostile - it was just pointing out what I thought was a obvious flaw in the idea.

Apologies oz_mark, I didn't mean to single you out - just noticed that some posts here seem to be suggesting that WPs are being 'petulant' about this, to borrow medhead's words.

Provide evidence that Qantas have called this an 'enhancement'.

Fair call, it's a 'Program Change' lumped in with an adjustment of existing Platinum benefits (which were the ones they actually called 'enhancements').

By the same token, you're making a sweeping assumption there stating that WPs are 'spinning a loophole' in order to have lounge access on competitors - see Austman's post above, which I can add my name too - never used anytime access myself when flying the competition, either because I preferred accruing status/points on QFF because of this kind of recognition / loyalty, or because QF/OW didn't fly / have a lounge at those few places I needed to fly someone else.

If the benefit is so little used, why is it aggravating the platinums so much. Perhaps it is more of an issue on international flights (which is the only time I took advantage of any time access), where you are past all the checkpoints.

(I suspect though, in this case, they are flying competitors as Qantas/JQ/one world doesn't go where they are going

In the time since I've been WP (I include the time Mrs Djf has been WP too, since I was her permanent travel companion during that time too ), I've used F lounge access maybe five or six times - the same, if not less, as the number of time I've used anytime access (domestic, never international). But I doubt anyone would say that removal of F lounge access (wouldn't happen due to OW, I know) due to infrequent use would be acceptable. So I'm not sure frequency of use is a good measure of the value of this kind of benefit, as is the recognition it provides for QFF's top tier and the rarely used, but marginal benefits they are able to take from it - and the flipside is, if it is so rarely used, how can it's removal have a significant impact on QFF's bottom line or lounge crowding?

It would make for rather quiet Qantas clubs I would have thought. With all the recent investment in expanding the clubs, I would think it unlikely that it will happen anytime soon.

Quiet QPs would be a boon for the paying member. You're probably right, but if AA can get away with keeping its elites out (or require them to pay) domestically, surely QF must consider whether or not such an arrangement would be better for its profitability than the status quo. It's not much of a stretch from the path they've already started down with the removal of anytime access.

If I had a choice between anytime access and anyseat awards that earn points/SCs (in other words losing something to gain something) I would take ASA's any day. What I am trying to say is that its not all been bad news this year, for which we can be thankful.

True. Not sure I agree that those two things are equal, and they certainly favour lower/no status pax - but a good point nevertheless.

Think about how Apple generates soo much buzz about their products; they get small yet powerful pockets of their most savvy and engaging customers, arm them with knowledge and let them run free - influencing the world around them. Pick up any business book and this message will scream at you.

To be fair, Apple also treats its most loyal customers like cough, because they know they don't have to be kind to them to maintain this halo. I absolute hate this about them, and wish it would come back to the bite them enough for them to reassess - not sure if it will though.

But I don't want to get too off topic and interrupt the tears

There's a Polish restaurant / vodka bar nearby called 'After the Tears' - perhaps we need to have a WP vodka-meet to properly get over it.

 

[JohnK]

Where do you get that "fact"" from John?

Just a hunch, perhaps a poor guess. Or since I travel quite regularly over the past of couple of years I have noticed the number of people in the Qantas Club queues increasing and the numnber of people in the Qantas Lounges increasing. Note I have never had a problem finding a seat in either a Qantas Lounge or a Qantas Business Lounge.

If I was Qantas I would be worried if Qantas Club membership sales were not increasing.

I am also sorry but I do not buy the reasons used in the email for removing anytime access to lounges for Platinums nor the response by Red Roo even though it was a small kind gesture after taking away a benefit important to a lot of people.

If anytime access is not so important to most Platinums why did Qantas have a sudden change of heart on an important "enhancement" a couple of days after the announcement? Qantas hardly ever backs down on "enhancements". Perhaps anytime lounge access for Platinums is a little more important than people actually think and Qantas has realised they have made a huge mistake.

So back to Qantas Lounges outside of SYD, MEL, BNE, CBR which have business lounges.

How can anyone claim that overcrowding is caused by Platinums not flying Qantas but rather the opposition? Qantas lounge staff must be excellent mind readers to be able to source these figures.

Which leads me to the conclusion that overcrowding in Qantas Lounges is due to more paid Qantas Club memberships. No? Then there must be more Gold and Platinums causing the overcrowding. Either way this is a very healthy situation for Qantas.

So why then bite the hand that feeds you with these latest "enhancements"? Greed? Possibly. I have another theory.

Think *Alliance and 3 levels of membership.
- Entry Level
- Silver
- Gold

With Platinum and Gold having almost similar benefits now I believe Qantas will merge these into a new status but require the requalification at the Platinum level.

Silver status almost means nothing with the new "enhancements". Look for a change where the current Gold status will become the old Silver status but requalification at the current Gold level and no complimentary lounge access.

Fairytale? Not possible? A lot of other changes were not possible either yet they are now a reality. Let's wait and see what happens next....

 

[markis10]

Think *Alliance and 3 levels of membership.
- Entry Level
- Silver
- Gold

With Platinum and Gold having almost similar benefits now I believe Qantas will merge these into a new status but require the requalification at the Platinum level.

Silver status almost means nothing with the new "enhancements". Look for a change where the current Gold status will become the old Silver status but requalification at the current Gold level and no complimentary lounge access.

Fairytale? Not possible? A lot of other changes were not possible either yet they are now a reality. Let's wait and see what happens next....

Its not a fairytale, its history, until 1998 QFF was three levels as Serfty mentioned earlier, that changed with QFF going to One World, when WP was created. The motivation as a SG to achieve WP is now a lot less for sure, that will be reflected in the revenue QF does not earn as people move to dual Gold memberships which is something of a Nirvana, or they credit to AA with its better earn/burn, either way the effect of the changes will be felt on the bottom line for QF, meanwhile QFF will still love the frequent spenders on the credit cards.

Jumping from 600 SCs to 2400 SCs to get 50000 points, imagine what you would get crediting that 1800SCs worth of flying to AA, a lot more value than what can be achieved with the QF 50K bonus.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I believe the WP's reaction to the removal of anytime access is not so much about the actual removal of the privilege QF have taken away, but how they've gone about doing it ie:

a) tried to camouflage it that it's somehow beneficial to members
b) QF's 'moving the goal posts' - where is it going to end & what's the next WP benefit to go
c) thinking WP's must be stupid & won't notice
d) mistakenly assuming overcrowded lounges are attributed to WP anytime access which I sincerely doubt

As for their misguided justification that anytime access is "giving a free kick to competitors" I find that so ironic because it's the actual removal of this benefit that is sending loyal QF Customers directly to DJ!

In fact I see a lot of similarities between removal of anytime access & John Howard's Work Choices - how the latter penalised hard working Australians & effectively gave employers the green light to arrogantly remove benefits/shift goal posts of employment conditions. :evil:

What happened? The people literally voted with their feet & bye bye Johnny!

 

[oz_mark]

By the same token, you're making a sweeping assumption there stating that WPs are 'spinning a loophole' in order to have lounge access on competitors - see Austman's post above, which I can add my name too - never used anytime access myself when flying the competition, either because I preferred accruing status/points on QFF because of this kind of recognition / loyalty, or because QF/OW didn't fly / have a lounge at those few places I needed to fly someone else.

The suggestion by straitman and Austman, did have the effect of opening a loophole, as there would be no easy way of identifying genuine guests, and would just open up a whole new set of things to argue with the staff at the entrance about.

I suspect that when red roo refers to giving the competitors a free kick, he/she has DJ in mind. As DJ target the corporate market, it is possible that there has been a drift in people in the Qantas Lounges ultimately flying on DJ. This is a problem that is only going to get worse as DJ steps up its efforts in these areas over the next few years. So, while some on this board may not do it, perhaps QF see it as a threat.

So what they are saying to those looking at going across to DJ - you do so at the risk of not being in our lounges.

 

[oz_mark]

As for their misguided justification that anytime access is "giving a free kick to competitors" I find that so ironic because it's the actual removal of this benefit that is sending loyal QF Customers directly to DJ!

Yes, but Qantas is saying, go to DJ and you won't be using our lounges. As mentioned in my last post, I suspect the issue is that people are, or will be, going to DJ and expecting to use the Qantas Clubs.

 

[Smackbum]

Just a hunch, perhaps a poor guess. Or since I travel quite regularly over the past of couple of years I have noticed the number of people in the Qantas Club queues increasing and the numnber of people in the Qantas Lounges increasing. Note I have never had a problem finding a seat in either a Qantas Lounge or a Qantas Business Lounge.

If I was Qantas I would be worried if Qantas Club membership sales were not increasing.

Patronage of QC lounges is obviously increasing, but only Qantas knows for sure whether the larger proportion of that growth is from paid or statused pax. I have experienced fairly severe over-crowding at peak times (Canberra is the worst) so I'm not sure which lounges you frequent. In any event the lounges are being paid for by one method or another. Except when ....

I am also sorry but I do not buy the reasons used in the email for removing anytime access to lounges for Platinums nor the response by Red Roo even though it was a small kind gesture after taking away a benefit important to a lot of people.

Which way do you want to play it? If the benefit is "important to a lot of people" then that would mean that there was a lot of lounge use by WPs and guests when they were not flying. That would tend to justify the removal of this illogical perk, wouldn't it?

If anytime access is not so important to most Platinums why did Qantas have a sudden change of heart on an important "enhancement" a couple of days after the announcement? Qantas hardly ever backs down on "enhancements". Perhaps anytime lounge access for Platinums is a little more important than people actually think and Qantas has realised they have made a huge mistake.

There are a couple of scenarios :-

1. The blanket removal of anytime access was always an ambit move, with the modified policy in the back pocket in case the natives were too restless.
2. Qantas were actually surprised by the hysteria about this change, and after review decided that on-arrival lounge use by WPs was justified as long as they weren't flying with the opposition.

I don't think Qantas are quite so Machiavallian (sp!) to be guilty of #1, so I think that they hadn't thought things through as well as they should and to their credit came up with a compromise. As Red Roo stated, the main reason for this change was to stop the practice of WP's grabbing a cheap fare from a competitor and then raiding the Qantas lounges for free food, drinks and internet. Or even worse solely coming to the airport to guest friends and family in to the Qantas trough.

So back to Qantas Lounges outside of SYD, MEL, BNE, CBR which have business lounges.

How can anyone claim that overcrowding is caused by Platinums not flying Qantas but rather the opposition? Qantas lounge staff must be excellent mind readers to be able to source these figures..

Qantas are far better placed than you or me to know who is in the lounge, and this thread completely validates their conclusions.

Which leads me to the conclusion that overcrowding in Qantas Lounges is due to more paid Qantas Club memberships. No?..

No

Then there must be more Gold and Platinums causing the overcrowding. Either way this is a very healthy situation for Qantas.

It isn't "healthy" to have overcrowded lounges, hence Qantas has recently spent a lot of dosh upgrading most of them. This investment is paid for by airfares and lounge memberships.

So why then bite the hand that feeds you with these latest "enhancements"? Greed?.

I would say that WPs who book a cheap fare on Tiger and then pig out at the Qantas lounge are being greedy and biting the hand that feeds them, but maybe that is because I'm not a WP.

 

[drron]

First a friendly welcome to Red roo.We really do welcome your presence here.Research the SPG threads on Flyertalk-the Starwood Lurkers really do engender a loyalty and one of the reasons I am happy to have switched from Hilton.
But it does seem QF badly miscalculated with the removal of anytime access for platinums.If you really thought that was contributing significantly to lounge overcrowding then surely that meant it was an important thing for many platinums and the response here should have been expected.I think though that your compromise is a very reasonable response.
Although I have no status on QF I have been a life member of the QP since 1992.My wife though is a QFF WP so I have enjoyed anytime access.In MEL it is when flying home from DPO-so we have had a QF flight and so no problems.The only other place is T2 at SYD.This is because we live on the Sunshine coast which was abandoned by QF a long time ago.If you could drop your bags with JQ more than an hour prior to departure and especially if you could interline between QF and JQ I probably would not use DJ and would have no problems at T2.But if there is a choice I will fly DJ.So I guess we lose access at T2.
I will collect my thoughts and let you know why we left QFF for Aadvantage in 2002 and why mrsdrron returned to the fold in 2009.It demonstrates some of the strengths and weaknesses of QFF.

 

[markis10]

Yes, but Qantas is saying, go to DJ and you won't be using our lounges. As mentioned in my last post, I suspect the issue is that people are, or will be, going to DJ and expecting to use the Qantas Clubs.

Unless a status match/like for like QP membership match is offered by DJ, I would think that is a tick in the box item for DJ and a very cheap way to buy a heap of premium pax. Problem solved for the passengers, problem created for QF, if you remove the climb to status then the battle is half won.

 

[oz_mark]

Unless a status match/like for like QP membership match is offered by DJ, I would think that is a tick in the box item for DJ and a very cheap way to buy a heap of premium pax. Problem solved for the passengers, problem created for QF, if you remove the climb to status then the battle is half won.

Except, of course, that The Lounge has a much smaller network.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Yes, but Qantas is saying, go to DJ and you won't be using our lounges. As mentioned in my last post, I suspect the issue is that people are, or will be, going to DJ and expecting to use the Qantas Clubs.

If that's the case QF should be looking at why so many people are flying DJ and not QF & address the cause of the problem not just the symptoms.