Platinum "anytime" lounge Access ceases from 1 February 2011

[anat0l]

This whole topic has turned into a joke. So let us summarise:

There are clearly people who are not happy with the changes - well, that's a no-brainer. Don't need to go to school to realise that one.

There have been several reasons quoted as to why these changes are detrimental overall to QF. Then we also got a lot of people who don't care much about the changes, mostly because it has little effect on them (more than there is good theory or base reasons behind the changes).

And then we had the exchange of vitriol here which would easily exceed the chemical and atomic warfare efforts of all major wars in the 20th century combined. And at least one vocal member here who claims that Red Roo is a liar and a fraud and would rather see him/her lynched or killed.

For the last paragraph above, this is the reason I have abstained from the argument, and it only just occurred to me now that I will also remove the subscription to this topic.

Fact of the matter is a change has been made. It will change how people fly. Some will go away, some will stay. My view is that talk is cheap without action, and that applies to both businesses and customers, i.e. the latter one being us. The severity, passion and gravity of ones words should match the degree of their actions. So for those of you who think this is a QF masterstroke of stupidity and arguing so passionately against its removal, then I suggest you cut up your WP cards, switch permanently to DJ now, and advocate to blacklist QF from all your further travel from now on. Anything else and you would be a hypocrite. In your view, QF is going to lose enough business as it is already, so it doesn't need you to pad them with moral support by your continuing to give them your business even though you believe it's all an empty promise.

And finally, a parting story from the front lines:

I was using the BNE I QP recently - yes, with anytime access - simply because there was no good showers anywhere with the *A lounges (although I've been told later there is a decent one in the SQ lounge). As I had my details verified by the front desk lady, I asked her whether she had heard about the changes to anytime access.

She said she couldn't be any more pleased.

I pressed on and asked her why. She did mention the "free kick" argument that was mentioned before. Whilst I was feeling slightly off keel because I was doing it right now (i.e. bought a ticket from SQ but using a lounge from QF), I did mention to her the "effort to get WP" counterargument as well as others (e.g. "published benefit", "effort translating to business" etc.). Then she came out with a further reason (I say "further", because she wasn't just "changing" the argument due to the first one being 'wrong' or 'right', but rather there are many reasons and she had another one...)

Apparently, and I had no idea this was possible, but the QPs had become quite crowded with WPs who were flying other airlines at times. The lounges would get so full that at times people had to be turned away, some of them were "legitimate" WPs flying QF flights. The result is that the lounge staff have been regularly and bitterly abused by WPs not just for not being able to get in but also the crowding, and when told about the access rules and reasons, these complaining WPs insisted that it is completely unfair that WPs not travelling with QF should be allowed access. I mentioned to her that the QP didn't seem all that bad right now, but she said it does happen at certain times of the day, and this also happened in other lounges across the system, with the same results (i.e. many WPs and also SGs complaining about how WPs can get in without travelling on QF and taking up space from "legitimate" customers). I asked her how it could be possible that there are so many WPs taking advantage of anytime access and that was crowding lounges, but she said it was a sizable number.

Of course, there are many ways QF could address these issues besides taking away anytime access (these are my words). I'll leave you (and anyone else who still wants to persist with this thread) who is interested to digest that anecdote.

 

[bossreggie]

Not wishing to pick on Boss reggie in particular ..... but his example is instructive.

Due to the withdrawal of anytime access (and regardless of the very sensible compromise position subsequently made due to logical arguments), Bossreggie has decided to move a significant amount of business away from Qantas.

This in itself is pure dummy spitting (from one point of view) or a sensible business decision (from another). In my opinion it is a bit of both - because the $$$s involved are quite mind-boggling and saving $12K on 3 airfares by just changing providers seems like a no-brainer to me.

In my personal instance, I was not "dummy spitting", though this was not a fiscal decision either. EK, NZ, EY, ALL have been a lot cheaper than QF to fly F (BP in NZ) to Europe. I have flown with EK 20 or more times in F to Europe.

I had been directing more of my spend to QF over the past few years.... With their decision to dilute benefits I will explore my other options.

As I stated earlier.... I will RETAIN WP and I will do it easily each year. HOWEVER I will also retain DJ Gold, EK Gold, NZ GE. With my travel pattern.... QANTAS could have had my ENTIRE spend as they fly EVERYWHERE I do!

 

[medhead]

I must be reading the wrong forum. What I read is posts full of people wanting to know how to maximise their credits to reach certain levels. But besides that wasn't actually what I was meaning.

I would discuss further but I am finished trying to make any sensible conversation with you, you clearly have your issues and are not open to any sensible conversation or discussion and are stuck on Qantas 'Jetstaring' routes and me labeling posts as selfish (which many are). So please do not reply to any more of my posts, and I promise to not reply any more to your posts.

You post said that we were a mob of mileage runners. You just repeated in this post that you read posts full of people trying to reach certain levels. But that isn't what you were meaning????? Yet that is want you wrote. There no hope for a sensible conversation if you can't write what you mean.

As far as I can see the only thing preventing a sensible conversation is your continuing insults. You've asked constant questions about one example, I've tried to explain it to you and now you insult me again. I can only guess you finally understand my example. If you wanted to have a sensible conversation you should start by being mature and not turning to insults when people don't agree with your world view.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Apparently, and I had no idea this was possible, but the QPs had become quite crowded with WPs who were flying other airlines at times. The lounges would get so full that at times people had to be turned away, some of them were "legitimate" WPs flying QF flights. The result is that the lounge staff have been regularly and bitterly abused by WPs not just for not being able to get in but also the crowding, and when told about the access rules and reasons, these complaining WPs insisted that it is completely unfair that WPs not travelling with QF should be allowed access. I mentioned to her that the QP didn't seem all that bad right now, but she said it does happen at certain times of the day, and this also happened in other lounges across the system, with the same results (i.e. many WPs and also SGs complaining about how WPs can get in without travelling on QF and taking up space from "legitimate" customers). I asked her how it could be possible that there are so many WPs taking advantage of anytime access and that was crowding lounges, but she said it was a sizable number.

Of course, there are many ways QF could address these issues besides taking away anytime access (these are my words). I'll leave you (and anyone else who still wants to persist with this thread) who is interested to digest that anecdote.

:shock: I'm not the most travelled here by a long way but I have never been turned away from a QP or witnessed/overheard any other SG/WP being turned away due to overcrowding.
Another aspect of anytime access removal which has still not been adequately addressed by QF is what happens to those flying on Regional Partner Airlines eg. Aeropelican, Brindabella?? I emailed Simon Hickey regarding this and other issues and received a telephone call from a QF rep advising that access would be granted in this situation, however the website does not say this.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I've spoken to 4 staff at Qantas about anytime access and they all mentioned 'free kick for the competition'. NLP, anyone?

Also if lounges were over crowded they would not be incentivizing new signups to Qantas club.

As Penn&teller would say... It's total BS

 

[medhead]

Fact of the matter is a change has been made. It will change how people fly. Some will go away, some will stay. My view is that talk is cheap without action, and that applies to both businesses and customers, i.e. the latter one being us. The severity, passion and gravity of ones words should match the degree of their actions. So for those of you who think this is a QF masterstroke of stupidity and arguing so passionately against its removal, then I suggest you cut up your WP cards, switch permanently to DJ now, and advocate to blacklist QF from all your further travel from now on. Anything else and you would be a hypocrite. In your view, QF is going to lose enough business as it is already, so it doesn't need you to pad them with moral support by your continuing to give them your business even though you believe it's all an empty promise.

I do think you call to cut up cards is a bit extreme. I am sure I am considered to have argued passionately as you suggest. But my stated response has been to have lounge access whenever I fly. I have clearly stated that I see little difference between platinum and gold with these changes. I can move some of my flying and but schedule also means I can't move other flights. My position remains that I am going to get what is best for me. So no I have never said that I will walk away from Qantas, I have said I will reduce the amount of business that qantas gets from me. I have consistently said that I'm not going to go out of my way to remain loyal to qantas because they don't seem to value that loyalty appropriately. In that circumstance cutting up my platinum card would be stupid.

[aside] it might also be akin to packing up my bat and walking away

And finally, a parting story from the front lines:

I was using the BNE I QP recently - yes, with anytime access - simply because there was no good showers anywhere with the *A lounges (although I've been told later there is a decent one in the SQ lounge). As I had my details verified by the front desk lady, I asked her whether she had heard about the changes to anytime access.

She said she couldn't be any more pleased.

I pressed on and asked her why. She did mention the "free kick" argument that was mentioned before. Whilst I was feeling slightly off keel because I was doing it right now (i.e. bought a ticket from SQ but using a lounge from QF), I did mention to her the "effort to get WP" counterargument as well as others (e.g. "published benefit", "effort translating to business" etc.). Then she came out with a further reason (I say "further", because she wasn't just "changing" the argument due to the first one being 'wrong' or 'right', but rather there are many reasons and she had another one...)

An extremely good point, there are many reasons for people's response to the recent changes.

The problem with the crowding reason that the desk lady gave you is that Qantas is actively providing incentives to increase the number of paid QC members.

As for vitriol - fair point. I don't think, however, that it was about the topic for the most part, but more about some people deciding the the reasons of others were selfish, childish, sulky and petulant. I'm sure that if someone decided that you wise decision to avoid this thread was childish, that might lead to some vitriol.

Totally agree about the problems you raised in the red paragraph - hence it is a wise decision to avoid this thread. (I'm not that wise :shock

 

[bossreggie]

I've spoken to 4 staff at Qantas about anytime access and they all mentioned 'free kick for the competition'. NLP, anyone?

Also if lounges were over crowded they would not be incentivizing new signups to Qantas club.

As Penn&teller would say... It's total BS

+1 Trippin AND Princess

I have never been turned away..... Nor have I found the QP amazingly overcrowded outside of the usual "Peak Periods". Encouraging more QP memebrs with no joining fee etc will hardly assist in this!?!?

 

[oz_mark]

Apparently, and I had no idea this was possible, but the QPs had become quite crowded with WPs who were flying other airlines at times.

This is not a further reason - this is exactly the reason that red roo articulated. It is the reason that WP's on this board have refused to accept as happening.

If front line staff are being abused due to the overcrowding, then their employer, Qantas, must take steps to address the issue. To me this is just front line evidence that the previous policy was causing problems to Qantas, and that it had to be addressed.

(This thread is a hoot. Goes round and round in circles!)

 

[trippin_the_rift]

This is not a further reason - this is exactly the reason that red roo articulated. It is the reason that WP's on this board have refused to accept as happening.

If front line staff are being abused due to the overcrowding, then their employer, Qantas, must take steps to address the issue. To me this is just front line evidence that the previous policy was causing problems to Qantas, and that it had to be addressed.

(This thread is a hoot. Goes round and round in circles!)

Problem with this reason is

(a) I have never seen overcrowding in biz lounges, and apparently no has anyone here has either, despite flying at all hours.

(b) Given the spin machine QF is running here, I'm extremely reluctant to believe anything.

(c) sure front line staff might see it in action, but they are minions who are employed to d'o and say what management tells them to do.

(d) all lounges over the years have been increased in size, QF would not invest this cash if it was purely platinums who were using anytime access. There is actually more FF'ers.

(e) I'm sure there are a few platinums who consistently use the lounge when not flying QF. Qantas is also making it easy to keep status through double status credit offers and free status comps when you fail to retain wp.

This was not clearly thought out by the decision makers...

 

[Mal]

And finally, a parting story from the front lines:

I was using the BNE I QP recently - yes, with anytime access - simply because there was no good showers anywhere with the *A lounges (although I've been told later there is a decent one in the SQ lounge). As I had my details verified by the front desk lady, I asked her whether she had heard about the changes to anytime access.

She said she couldn't be any more pleased.

I pressed on and asked her why. She did mention the "free kick" argument that was mentioned before. Whilst I was feeling slightly off keel because I was doing it right now (i.e. bought a ticket from SQ but using a lounge from QF), I did mention to her the "effort to get WP" counterargument as well as others (e.g. "published benefit", "effort translating to business" etc.). Then she came out with a further reason (I say "further", because she wasn't just "changing" the argument due to the first one being 'wrong' or 'right', but rather there are many reasons and she had another one...)

Apparently, and I had no idea this was possible, but the QPs had become quite crowded with WPs who were flying other airlines at times. The lounges would get so full that at times people had to be turned away, some of them were "legitimate" WPs flying QF flights. The result is that the lounge staff have been regularly and bitterly abused by WPs not just for not being able to get in but also the crowding, and when told about the access rules and reasons, these complaining WPs insisted that it is completely unfair that WPs not travelling with QF should be allowed access. I mentioned to her that the QP didn't seem all that bad right now, but she said it does happen at certain times of the day, and this also happened in other lounges across the system, with the same results (i.e. many WPs and also SGs complaining about how WPs can get in without travelling on QF and taking up space from "legitimate" customers). I asked her how it could be possible that there are so many WPs taking advantage of anytime access and that was crowding lounges, but she said it was a sizable number.

Now, the question I have ... Was that exchange of information from "her knowledge based on experience and chatting with other staffers involved at entry points to lounges", or was it based on information from Qantas Corporate in their latest "bulletin to Lounges" (or whatever their corporate guff is called).

Front line staffers can give candid views at times, but I also see them only give out the "corporate line". If she had been fed that line recently, then she may have used it.

And, a further thought for the Qantas lurkers (and Red Roo). Why are WP's - supposedly one of your most valuable customers flying other carriers????

 

[medhead]

(a) I have never seen overcrowding in biz lounges, and apparently no has anyone here has either, despite flying at all hours.

However, anytime access shouldn't affect crowds in the biz lounge, anytime access is only for the QP as per the published rules. If it is affecting crowds in the biz lounge that means that QF is providing extra over the published benefits. Surely if crowding in the biz lounge is a problem and they are providing extra then why not try providing only the published benefit. :idea:

 

[DC3]

If front line staff are being abused due to the overcrowding, then their employer, Qantas, must take steps to address the issue.

To me this is just front line evidence that the previous policy was causing problems to Qantas, and that it had to be addressed.

Of course we can't prove that frontline staff are not being abused, but if Qantas are using that as a reason to change the anytime access policy, it sounds a bit suss. All too convenient to now blame the customer.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

However, anytime access shouldn't affect crowds in the biz lounge, anytime access is only for the QP as per the published rules. If it is affecting crowds in the biz lounge that means that QF is providing extra over the published benefits. Surely if crowding in the biz lounge is a problem and they are providing extra then why not try providing only the published benefit. :idea:

I wish my businessses had overcrowding problems from having too many paying customers there at once. What a terrible situation for QF to be in :idea:

 

[oz_mark]

Of course we can't prove that frontline staff are not being abused, but if Qantas are using that as a reason to change the anytime access policy, it sounds a bit suss. All too convenient to now blame the customer.

From the beginning, Qantas have viewed the problem of people using the lounge and travelling on other carriers as the problem. The problem manifests itself in numerous ways, and if front-line staff are expressing happiness that the change is being made, then one of the issues was how it was affecting them. If it wasn't improving their lot, they would more than likely be agreeing with what the WP's were saying.

 

[YQY]

(a) I have never seen overcrowding in biz lounges, and apparently no has anyone here has either, despite flying at all hours.

Not correct - i do the Syd-Mel route weekly - the Mel lounge on Thursday/Fridays is consistantly over crowded.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Not correct - i do the Syd-Mel route weekly - the Mel lounge on Thursday/Fridays is consistantly over crowded.

+1

I did a JASA SC Run earlier this year and the MEL J Lounge was choc-a-block (but only for about 30 minutes, at most). Once a few flights got called, it was empty once again.

The beef that most people on this thread have ( i think...), as Danger pointed out correctly, is that QF used a "overcrowding of lounges" as an excuse to cut the WP anytime access benefit, yet a few weeks later, decide to discount QC rates and then do another promo to get more people in with 50% price reduction entry fee + 50k points bonus. That's taking the pi** right there. Cheeky cheeky QF.

With anytime access now cut, no instant upgrade confirmation (or upgrade coupons/credits) and only 100% points bonus for WP's (and only a few J Lounges here-and-there), QF is starting to look like a 2nd tier carrier, but still charing premium prices.

(OT; Is there a AA CC available in Oz?)

 

[trippin_the_rift]

And as someone said earlier in the thread - how would QF know if WP's using the lounge were not flying Qantas? There is zero method to track this domestically.

 

[Danger]

Apparently, and I had no idea this was possible, but the QPs had become quite crowded with WPs who were flying other airlines at times . .

The lady's argument seems flawed on a number of levels:

1. Many have noted that lounge staff never appear to have taken a record of WPs using anytime access, let alone using it when flying another airline. So where's this evidence coming from that WPs not flying QF are glogging up the lounges?
2. Even as a 'legitimate' WP flying with QF, I've only ever shown my card to the lounge agents (with the possible exception of some J lounges in recent times who sometimes request the boarding pass but, as others have noted, these lounges are supposedly exempt from the anytime rule). Not once have I been asked "are you flying Qantas today or are we giving our competitors three terminals down the road a kick? Oh and don't forget to leave the lounge two hours before your flight is due to depart as you'll need to re-clear security."
3. And as so many have pointed out, if the lounges are so damn overcroweded, while the heck have their been two bonuses in three months to join the Club?

As Mal suggests, this sounds like 'speaking points' from the lounge circular.

 

[extracta]

And as so many have pointed out, if the lounges are so damn overcroweded, while the heck have their been two bonuses in three months to join the Club?
.

1. Because QANTAS make money from the subscription fee.

2. It ties people to fly QANTAS that may have flown with a competitor.

 

[ajw373]

However, anytime access shouldn't affect crowds in the biz lounge, anytime access is only for the QP as per the published rules. If it is affecting crowds in the biz lounge that means that QF is providing extra over the published benefits. Surely if crowding in the biz lounge is a problem and they are providing extra then why not try providing only the published benefit. :idea:

The example that was given above was for an international airport, Brisbane in particular, in which case anytime is for the business lounge.