PM returning from Hawaii

[get me outta here]

I didn't mean to distinguish between the two.
I am only interested in determining whether the whole "returning early" thing is a blatant lie.
And I did look at routes with connections.

A valid question, and perhaps it will be verified one way or another in the future.

 

[RooFlyer]

I don't know if I'm lacking empathy or what, but if the people working under ScoMo are tasked with looking after the government while he's away, why does he need to come back? Isn't it analogous to your manager or boss going away on holidays and you are paid to look after the office?

Its the vibe. He's a victim of his own success. The Twitter mob and the media are convinced that it just needs him in the country and his personal aura, and connection with God, will immediately cause the fires to die down and all to be well with the world.

Other than that, I'm stuffed as to what difference it makes as to whether he's in the country or not.

Oh, there might be some politicking at work, but people wouldn't be so crude as to make political points over people's suffering, would they?

 

[amaroo]

I don't know if I'm lacking empathy or what, but if the people working under ScoMo are tasked with looking after the government while he's away, why does he need to come back? Isn't it analogous to your manager or boss going away on holidays and you are paid to look after the office?

Next time Qantas lose your bags, just arrange to picket Alan's front gate - it's obviously his fault

 

[Pushka]

Its the vibe. He's a victim of his own success. The Twitter mob and the media are convinced that it just needs him in the country and his personal aura, and connection with God, will immediately cause the fires to die down and all to be well with the world.

Other than that, I'm stuffed as to what difference it makes as to whether he's in the country or not.

Oh, there might be some politicking at work, but people wouldn't be so crude as to make political points over people's suffering, would they?

You forgot to mention that Lara Bingle Dingle and that execrable person who hosted Big Brother has called him out. Seriously, where do these no-names get the belief that anyone gives a toss what thought bubble enters their brain!

 

[get me outta here]

I don’t know where to start with answering this question on the deputy p.m. His previous utterances may have a bearing.

I hope the good thing to come out of all of this mess is that they start to pay these people that are fighting fires, at the very least. And perhaps start to listen to the real experts.

I don't know if I'm lacking empathy or what, but if the people working under ScoMo are tasked with looking after the government while he's away, why does he need to come back? Isn't it analogous to your manager or boss going away on holidays and you are paid to look after the office?

 

[RooFlyer]

You forgot to mention that Lara Bingle Dingle and that execrable person who hosted Big Brother has called him out. Seriously, where do these no-names get the belief that anyone gives a toss what thought bubble enters their brain!

When there is a debate going on, as well as the arguments presented, I look at who is presenting the other side. In this one I'm pretty comfortable

 

[Pushka]

I don’t know where to start with answering this question on the deputy p.m. His previous utterances may have a bearing.

I hope the good thing to come out of all of this mess is that they start to pay these people that are fighting fires, at the very least. And perhaps start to listen to the real experts.

I agree totally. Some kind of remuneration is necessary. But you know what? As soon as there is some kind of employer arrangement then the OH&S issues will (rightfully) kick in. And these people will not be allowed to do the things that they are currently doing. Like fight fires for excessive hours. Work in the heat. And so on.

 

[get me outta here]

Hopefully, those details can be worked out. It may take a while.

I agree totally. Some kind of remuneration is necessary. But you know what? As soon as there is some kind of employer arrangement then the OH&S issues will (rightfully) kick in. And these people will not be allowed to do the things that they are currently doing. Like fight fires for excessive hours. Work in the heat. And so on.

 

[amaroo]

<snip>

And perhaps start to listen to the real experts.

These experts would be the ones to listen to....

Cut and paste from bloomberg.com

There’s a 60,000-Year-Old Way to Help Stop Australia Burning

Australia’s indigenous people say the bushfire-ravaged country is paying the price for ignoring their expertise in managing the ecology of the world’s-driest inhabited continent.



The fires have already burned more than 6 million acres -- an area the size of Massachusetts -- and caused smoke haze to blanket Sydney and other cities. With a deepening drought suggesting there’s no end in sight to the crisis, indigenous fire practitioner Victor Steffensen is calling for a radical change in how the land is managed.



“The Western mindset is always about dealing with problems while they’re doing damage -- it’s reactive,” Steffensen, 46, said from Cairns in the nation’s far northeast. “If we can use our way, these types of fires will never get the chance to start.”



Choking Haze Is Turning Sydney Into the World’s Laboratory



Australia typically relies on reducing fuel loads in bush land through controlled burns during cooler winter months, placing a priority on land surrounding residential areas.



This year, those preventative efforts have proven to be fatally inadequate as the fire season got off to a ferocious and early start due to tinder-box conditions. Dozens of blazes, usually caused by lightning strikes, quickly got out of control, often in remote areas which firefighters found difficult to access.


Six Australians have been killed and the deaths of more than 2,000 koalas in New South Wales state alone have sparked concern that the species is being pushed toward extinction.

The indigenous approach is to manage the landscape with so-called “cool, slow” controlled burns often conducted at night. They’re designed to reduce dangerous fuel loads of scrub and fallen timber on forest floors, and incrementally tackle large tracts of land with multiple small-scale burns. Such an approach is more labor intensive and takes longer. But the lower intensity and slow progress of the fire gives animals chance to escape and protects the forest canopy.

“Indigenous burns are done over smaller areas at lower intensities,” said Justin Leonard, who has spent two decades studying the risks from bushfires to life and infrastructure with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation. “The innate lesson they provide is we will never defeat fire in this country, so we have to use it as a tool and adapt.”

The Sydney Harbour Bridge is shrouded in haze on Nov. 21.
Photographer: Brendon Thorne/Bloomberg
As this year’s fires destroy millions of dollars of property and choke the inhabitants of Sydney, anger has been directed at the conservative government, with accusations that policies supporting the coal industry and refusing to punish greenhouse-gas polluters may be exacerbating climate change.

Natural Disaster and Emergency Management Minister David Littleproud has ordered a parliamentary inquiry to develop a national approach on reducing fuel loads and is calling for proponents of indigenous land management techniques to make submissions.

“There’s thousands of years of experience that we need to tap into,” Littleproud told reporters last week. “We’ve been ignorant to that.”

Australia’s Bushfire Risk is Getting Worse
Conditions are becoming more severe, especially in the south and east

Source: Bureau of Meteorology
Note: The map shows trends from 1978 to 2017 in the annual summary of the Forest Fire Danger Index, an indicator of the severity of fire weather conditions.
The bushfire problem is getting worse. A trend toward longer dry seasons has reduced the time available for preventative burning in cooler months by regional fire services that are often staffed by volunteers.

With limited time and resources, firefighters focus their efforts on land close to residential areas. Their back-burns are typically conducted at a higher intensity, with bigger areas of forest burning faster and hotter -- creating a scorched earth buffer near neighborhoods but destroying more flora and fauna in the process. More remote areas are less likely to be tackled, leading to a build up of fuel that can cause catastrophic blazes in dry years.

The hazards of such a strategy were shown at the weekend when fire services lost control of a back-burn in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney, resulting in the loss of at least 20 buildings.


For the first Australians, whose culture traces back at least 60,000 years, fire is central to their way of life, an important spiritual symbol as well as a tool for hunting, cooking and warmth. Many of their traditional ways of managing the land were swept away after the arrival of British settlers and convicts in 1788. In the years that followed, the indigenous people were forced from their land and their cultural beliefs were often held in disdain by white Australians. They remain the poorest and most disadvantaged group in Australian society.

A New South Wales (NSW) Rural Fire Service volunteer uses a fire-lighter during back-burning operations.
Photographer: David Gray/Bloomberg
Steffensen says expanding indigenous fire-management practices could help provide employment as trainers and reduce welfare dependence. He’d like to see other traditional practices adopted too, in areas such as land management, natural medicines and water conservation.

“All these government departments, environmentalists, national parks, farmers and pastoralists have the best intentions but they all have their different interests,” said Steffensen, who founded Firesticks, a company that provides workshops on indigenous back-burning techniques. “Doing it our way on a continent-wide scale would be costly and take up a lot of working hours, but in the long run it could save billions,” he said.

In the meantime, there’s little sign of the rains needed to quench the fires. The national weather forecaster predicts drier-than-average conditions for the nation’s east until at least March.

A NSW Rural Fire Service volunteer douses a fire during back-burning operations.
Photographer: David Gray/Bloomberg
“This fire season started earlier than normal and it’s long, protracted and testing,” said New South Wales Rural Fire Service spokesman Ben Shepherd. “It’s touched many communities that haven’t seen fires in decades.”

He said the fire service has worked with indigenous fire organizations and sees their value.

“It adds to the suite of hazard reduction-methods we use,” he said. “We know not everything is about back-burning -- we need to consider local ecology. We’ll look at anything that helps give us the upper hand.”

 

[get me outta here]

I only heard her quoting the original words that the PM wrote. Was there something else ...

You forgot to mention that Lara Bingle Dingle and that execrable person who hosted Big Brother has called him out. Seriously, where do these no-names get the belief that anyone gives a toss what thought bubble enters their brain!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Other than that, I'm stuffed as to what difference it makes as to whether he's in the country or not.

It probably doesn't, in terms of outcomes. But he is the leader of the country, and perhaps there's an argument he should be standing with the country. Not off on holidays while there's severe droughts, fires raging, and plenty of very unfortunate folk who can't take the time off to relax as he is doing.

 

[Pushka]

I only heard her quoting the original words that the PM wrote. Was there something else ...

Which c lister are we thinking of?

Gretel

Gretel Killeen Lays Into Scott Morrison For Lack Of Leadership Amidst Bushfire Crisis

She made a fiery appearance on 'Sunrise' this morning.

www.pedestrian.tv

Lara

Lara Bingle roasts MIA prime minister with thatburning question

Scott Morrison has been dunked by the woman he made famous when he masterminded Tourism Australia's $186 million ad campaign.

thenewdaily.com.au

 

[RooFlyer]

It probably doesn't, in terms of outcomes. But he is the leader of the country, and perhaps there's an argument he should be standing with the country. Not off on holidays while there's severe droughts, fires raging, and plenty of very unfortunate folk who can't take the time off to relax as he is doing.

Sure, I get that, and optics are important.

But at any time during a year there is a crisis in domestic violence, a crisis in the health of Aboriginal people, a crisis in many Emergency Departments around the country, a crisis in the security of the country ... I could go on.

So maybe someone can explain to me why these fires ... which are a natural part of the environment, and which happen every year, and have happened worse in the past ... are so exceptional that its a crisis when the PM heads off on hols, demanding his return?

If the rule is, a PM can never relax on hols with his family, because there is always some crisis in foot, then let it be known clearly. If not, then you'll excuse me thinking this has gotten a bit silly and political.

Of course, ScoMo is merely following the example of St Gough of the Whitless, who was holidaying in Greece when Cyclone Tracey destroyed Darwin. Under pressure, he returned to Australia ... but resumed his holiday soon after .

 

[Pushka]

The Adelaide plains were completely denuded of trees prior to european intrusion due to indigenous practises. Then they had to reintroduce tree species.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If the rule is, a PM can never relax on hols with his family, because there is always some crisis in foot, then let it be known clearly. If not, then you'll excuse me thinking this has gotten a bit silly and political.

i guess there's 'ongoing' and then an 'emergency'.

Victoria's police commissioner got into trouble for going out for dinner on the night Victoria burned. So it's not without precedent that a figure in authority will get this sort of negative feedback.

Maybe too much is expected of leaders, and maybe they don't have the same duty of responsibility to the country as perhaps the Queen (who never holidays abroad IIRC).

 

[amaroo]

The Adelaide plains were completely denuded of trees prior to european intrusion due to indigenous practises. Then they had to reintroduce tree species.

One wonders if that was a good decision.

 

[amaroo]

Sure, I get that, and optics are important.

But at any time during a year there is a crisis in domestic violence, a crisis in the health of Aboriginal people, a crisis in many Emergency Departments around the country, a crisis in the security of the country ... I could go on.

So maybe someone can explain to me why these fires ... which are a natural part of the environment, and which happen every year, and have happened worse in the past ... are so exceptional that its a crisis when the PM heads off on hols, demanding his return?

If the rule is, a PM can never relax on hols with his family, because there is always some crisis in foot, then let it be known clearly. If not, then you'll excuse me thinking this has gotten a bit silly and political.

Of course, ScoMo is merely following the example of St Gough of the Whitless, who was holidaying in Greece when Cyclone Tracey destroyed Darwin. Under pressure, he returned to Australia ... but resumed his holiday soon after .

Agree. It's approaching the ridiculous media driven environment Kevin747 created and loved.... didn't do him any good!

 

[suze2000]

Don't forget ScoMo said on Q&A that Christine Nixon going out for dinner on Black Saturday was an example of poor judgement. That she should have been in the incident centre etc. And then he heads off on holiday to the US - and worse, to open a branch of the Hillsong church. At which event, he will NOT be introduced as a no-name member of the public, but as PM of Australia, thus implying that our country somehow supports these nutters. It's not a good look at the best of times, but while half the country is on fire, it's appalling.

ETA: it's worth knowing too that ScoMo's cult WANTS the world to end, and they also believe that if bad things happen to you, it's because you didn't pray enough, and if you are poor it's because you didn't tithe enough (because their version of god rewards people who give money to their version of a church) , and if you get sick, you deserve that too because you didn't pray enough. I could go on. But it's worth listening to this 7am podcast. I was appalled after listening to it that this man is leader of a secular nation.

 

[amaroo]

Don't forget ScoMo said on Q&A that Christine Nixon going out for dinner on Black Saturday was an example of poor judgement. That she should have been in the incident centre etc. And then he heads off on holiday to the US - and worse, to open a branch of the Hillsong church. At which event, he will NOT be introduced as a no-name member of the public, but as PM of Australia, thus implying that our country somehow supports these nutters. It's not a good look at the best of times, but while half the country is on fire, it's appalling.

Fair comment. I'm sure he's regretting that spur of the moment comment. The flip side to all that - a state police commissioner is a very, very, long way, away from a PM.

One needs to remember that these things are all state controlled matters. I'm looking forward to federal intervention that dictates land management in-line with reality.

 

[drron]

suze2000 Christine Nixon was in charge of emergency services that day.Criticism was deserved.
Scomo is not in charge of emergency services.

Maybe the firefighters wantted him away longer.
.