Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[oznflfan]

Ok thanks for the clarification I have corrected my post, but my point largely holds given nothing for kids (and there is just under 7 million Australian aged under 16s ). The current Pfizer orders not enough to include Phase 3 (under 16s) even if it is eventually approved for kids.

On the lighter side, kids not being vaccinated, may mean when borders do open initially there will be lfllihhots of lovely kid free long haul flights.

As long as i foresee Covid safe, really dont care if theres a plane full of crying 3 month olds on my flight to Europe earlyish 2022

 

[mviy]

Federal government acted alone on jail time and fines for India returns, top medical official says

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said a sevenfold increase in cases from India led to the temporary travel ban.

www.smh.com.au

The nation’s top medical expert says he advised the federal government to stem the flow of Australians returning from India because of COVID-19 but made no recommendations to jail or fine those who circumvent travel bans.

Well medical experts aren't legal experts or experts at setting penalties for infringements, so that's hardly surprising.

It's always been up to politicians to set in laws potential maximum sentences, and up to judges in the courts to determine the appropriate sentence within those limits for a particular case where a defendant has been found guilty. The maximum sentence is generally reserved for the most extreme cases, for serial offenders or where the law was wilfully disobeyed with extreme consequences (e.g. if someone clearly knew they were breaking the law and they caused a major COVID outbreak they might get the maximum sentence).

 

[Pushka]

It is an unimaginable world where a Government can ban its own citizens from returning to their country. Whatever the circumstances.

 

[Seat0B]

Many Australians believe government doing the right thing regarding those stranded abroad: Lowy poll

Most Australians believe the federal government is doing a good job with its management of the pandemic and say they have given Australians overseas enough support, according to a Lowy Institute poll.

www.abc.net.au

Highlights from this Lowy poll of 2200 Australians (presumably based in Australia) are:

• only one in three voters believe the federal government should do more to help stranded Australians return home
• 41 per cent of respondents backed the current border policy — which only allows Australians to leave the country with a special exemption
• 40 per cent said vaccinated Australians should be able to leave
• 83 per cent said Australia should provide financial support to Pacific Island countries to help them secure COVID-19 vaccines
• 60 per cent said Australia should provide support to South-East Asian countries.

I was heartened to see that 40% of people polled thought that people who are vaccinated should be able to leave, and that this was now level pegging with those who wanted the border to stay closed.
I was disheartened to see that only 33% want to see more done to get stranded Aussies home.

 

[Lynda2475]

The Lowry poll was taken before the borders closed to India, so results may differ if it was taken today given more extreme recent actions by the government.

 

[Seat0B]

It is an unimaginable world where a Government can ban its own citizens from returning to their country. Whatever the circumstances.

Could not agree more. They are our citizens, and they do not need any excuse to return here. If they are diseased, then it is up to us, the taxpayers, to support that. I honestly cannot believe that I live in a country that both bans citizens from leaving, and from returning, and criminalises both acts (threats of fines and jail for people using the NZ bubble loophole to leave without a permit as well as the penalties for returning from India). Good grief, what is next.

 

[N860CR]

It is an unimaginable world where a Government can ban its own citizens from returning to their country. Whatever the circumstances

Never could have imagined it possible. And considering the fairly mild risk, it’s quite a terrifying precedent

 

[jase05]

It’s definitely a dilemma, most people I know want us to do more to get people home but also think that anyone who has left the country in the last 4-6 weeks should be the very last in the queue for repatriation

 

[Pushka]

It’s definitely a dilemma, most people I know want us to do more to get people home but also think that anyone who has left the country in the last 4-6 weeks should be the very last in the queue for repatriation

But even those wanting to fly home on their own coin without any government assistance are banned. I don't like what Australia is becoming and it's a very bad precedent to set. The fact that many are just letting it happen without a murmur is extremely worrying.

 

[jase05]

But even those wanting to fly home on their own coin without any government assistance are banned. I don't like what Australia is becoming and it's a very bad precedent to set. The fact that many are just letting it happen without a murmur is extremely worrying.

Agreed, just seems that most I know and speak to think that anyone who has departed recently shouldn’t be allowed back until others who have been waiting much longer are repatriated

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Never could have imagined it possible. And considering the fairly mild risk, it’s quite a terrifying precedent

We’ll have to disagree on this one... a 12% death rate, to me at least, is not a mild risk.

The only terrifying precedent I have seen is the minority view on the rights and dignity of the elderly and vulnerable in this pandemic. That they are somehow ‘dispensable’. If this virus affected young children, and 12% of all those catching the virus died, I wonder if the attitude to closing borders would be different?

 

[Pushka]

The only terrifying precedent I have seen is the minority view on the rights and dignity of the elderly and vulnerable in this pandemic. That they are somehow ‘dispensable’. If this virus affected young children, and 12% of all those catching the virus died, I wonder if the attitude to closing borders would be different?

And I disagree with that. Australia, and its young people and young families have had their lives turned upside down and inside out, and will live with the Commonwealth debt for another 30 years, in a combined effort to keep older people as safe as possible.

 

[oznflfan]

And I disagree with that. Australia, and its young people and young families have had their lives turned upside down and inside out, and will live with the Commonwealth debt for another 30 years, in a combined effort to keep older people as safe as possible.

Correct, once everyone in 1A, 1B and 2A are vaccinated (or don't refuse), death rate would fall to practically NIL. Both vaccines proven to effectively reduce deaths to NIL. In fact old fashioned flu will kill 10 times more 80+ year olds every year than COVID. Is next step quarantining flu sufferers?

Just for safety I am supportive of getting everyone vaccinated before borders open. Say by end if Q1 2022?? Further, only vaccinated visitors allowed in quarantine free, non vaccinated still can enter, but HQ same as current.

Need pollies to state intentions for 2022. I think there will be an early election Oct/Nov this year. I'm voting Labour. Scomo good with words but no commitments, little action.

 

[mviy]

Need pollies to state intentions for 2022.

Anything will be qualified by that they will listen to the health advice giving them an opt out if they do promise to do anything.

I think there will be an early election Oct/Nov this year.

I would like to see that. It would be the first time in October/November since 2007. I think if that's the date we'd probably be waiting after the election for the victor to reveal a plan for reopening.

 

[Lynda2475]

I personally doubt a Federal election will be called this year. They have until 22 May 2022 to call it, Id bet on March or May 2022.

 

[mviy]

I personally doubt a Federal election will be called this year. They have until 22 May 2022 to call it, Id bet on March or May 2022.

I have heard a commentator (can't remember which one) reckoning that everything hinges on the vaccine rollout and whether it picks up pace so that those in 2B get their first shot in October. If that happens an election then some significant relaxation before Christmas may be a possibility.

If the vaccine rollout is very slow then borders remaining closed till the Northern Hemisphere summer in 2022 would appear more likely.

 

[oznflfan]

Anything will be qualified by that they will listen to the health advice giving them an opt out if they do promise to do anything.

I would like to see that. It would be the first time in October/November since 2007. I think if that's the date we'd probably be waiting after the election for the victor to reveal a plan for reopening.

Correct, part reason is if the Australian Government waits to May 2022 they can't keep ignoring the opening question that they may be able to do up to Oct/Nov (given vaccinations not complete, other countries still opening up/vaccine data still coming in).

 

[Lynda2475]

Vaccinations unlikely to be complete by May 2022 either. Based on current rates projections dont have 2B (let alone 3) finished by end of next year.

 

[dajop]

Could not agree more. They are our citizens, and they do not need any excuse to return here. If they are diseased, then it is up to us, the taxpayers, to support that. I honestly cannot believe that I live in a country that both bans citizens from leaving, and from returning, and criminalises both acts (threats of fines and jail for people using the NZ bubble loophole to leave without a permit as well as the penalties for returning from India). Good grief, what is next.

The only other two countries I am following closely regarding bans for travel from those who have been in India in the last two days are:

Singapore: Bans entry or transit for anyone who has been in India in the last 14 days except Citizens and Permanent Residents of Singapore

New Zealand: Travellers from those countries will be temporarily restricted to New Zealand citizens, their partners and children, and parents of children who are New Zealand citizens

But already Singapore was accepting international arrivals 5x per capita and New Zealand 2x per capita compared to Australia's arrivals Both only one major layer of government, who are unable to outsource either the operation or political blame for any problems to subsidiary governments, like Australia can.

 

[Pushka]

This is not going to end well and Australia's policy with India will be significantly challenged if an Australian citizen becomes ill and needs treatment in India.

"Monday evening’s Indian Premier League match between the Kolkata Knight Riders and Royal Challengers Bangalore has been rescheduled after a player tested positive to COVID-19.

According to The Australian, Kolkata’s players and staff have been placed in isolation after Varun Chakravarthy tested positive to the virus.

Australian stars Pat coughmins and Ben Cutting feature in the Knight Riders squad, along with England captain Eoin Morgan.
According to the report, Chakravarty left the biosecurity bubble earlier this week to have scans done."