Predictions of when international flights may resume/bans lifted

[MEL_Traveller]

...but if an airline is told they won't be able to disembark more than xx_ number of passengers on arrival, they are not going to let them board.

That would be a booking limitation from a sales perspective. The most the airline could have for sale across all classes would be 50. But if you have a seat, and a valid passport, can the airline deny you travel?

 

[p--and--t]

That would be a booking limitation from a sales perspective. The most the airline could have for sale across all classes would be 50. But if you have a seat, and a valid passport, can the airline deny you travel?

For Aussie passport holders under their allocated limit, I would imagine a sales stop (or denied boarding process if they stuff the sales bit up).

For foreigners, if the gov has said no entry, the airlines already stop you at boarding as standard procedure.

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

So perhaps they could add another ‘tax’ to the ticket price... sure you can buy a ticket, that will be $4,000 in Y, with no food/beverage service, have a nice day...

 

[auriga]

According to the smh the $3000 only covers part of the costs of the quarantine process.
Article also mentions anecdotal reports of people leaving Australia and returning multiple times.

I presume only Australian citizens and PR's not living in Australia have been able to do that.
Really unfair that these non-resident Aussies have been able to come and go

 

[CaptJCool]

I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere there are more than 1M aussies spread all over the world, more than 300,000 of them travellers.

Multiple retrieval flights have come from every continent except Antarctica.

Oh no, what about Bringing the “Aussie” penguins home ?? LOL

 

[Seat0B]

And it’s later than sooner....

Coronavirus: How to Reopen Travel Safely

What Citizens Should Countries Allow In? Under What Conditions?

medium.com

Europe will go through its own “hotel quarantine” scandals no doubt.

Great thought provoking article @CaptJCool.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

For Aussie passport holders under their allocated limit, I would imagine a sales stop (or denied boarding process if they stuff the sales bit up).

For foreigners, if the gov has said no entry, the airlines already stop you at boarding as standard procedure.

I cannot see how a sales stop could be effected. Or whether would be legally possible (what grounds would an airline, for example, Qantas, have for refusing to transport an Aussie back to Australia who has a confirmed booking and right of entry?) There will be Aussie overseas with visas about to expire. They would then be non-lawful in their country and pretty much have to come home.

 

[PineappleSkip]

I presume only Australian citizens and PR's not living in Australia have been able to do that.
Really unfair that these non-resident Aussies have been able to come and go

There are a number of exemptions for Australians to travel out and return. Others have reported that people going out temporarily for e.g. urgent business travel are being asked to pay up front for quarantine on return as a condition of departure.

Qld-$200 per night per person so $5600 for a couple v $4000 in Sydney.

Qld charges $3710 for a couple. The room rate of $135 p.n. plus the meal rate of $65 daily per adult. Bring the whole family! - Kids stay free when sharing with parents and pay $32.50 a day for meals.

Cheers skip

 

[Seat0B]

I know a lot of people have been saying "why didn't they come home sooner" or "who are these people" about the overseas Australians. Here are a few examples from my immediate circle:
1. a friend's son in the UK working as a chef. Visa expiry end of July 2020. He had a flat and a job and knowing his visa would expire, he had arrangements in place for return in late June. When the virus hit in March, his employer kept them working until the full lock down, his land lord would not refund anything on the last couple of months on the flat and, despite a lot of effort, he could not get another flight at a price he could afford to come home earlier. His airline would not refund his pre-booked cheap ticket bought in December 2019, as they had not cancelled the flight. In the end, it was just easier for him to let things take their course and come home as planned in late June. He's home and out of quarantine and well - but good luck getting a job as a chef here in Australia right now.
2. Another friend's son, dual UK/Aus citizen, but raised in Australia, living in the UK with his Aus girlfriend for the past 3 years. Both work as accountants and so have been working from home and not really affected by the lockdown too badly. Her Visa expires in October. They had applied for a partner visa for her to stay. This has now been declined (I don't know why - they are a genuine couple and have been for years, so maybe it is somehting to do with changed rules for virus, I just don;t know), so they now unexpectedly have to either both come home, or just she comes home and he stays and they are separated for who knows how long.
3. A distant relative got the under 30s visa to work in Canada. He left here last November (at the last possible moment to take up the visa) and had a job in the ski season at a Canadian resort. Once the virus hit, he was one of the lucky ones to be retained and he kept working until season end in late April. Things didn't seem too bad at that point, and he had a 2 year visa, so he planned to stay on and live from money earned during his winter season. But as time has passed and the virus has impacted, he has been unable to get any work, has been unable to travel, and decided to throw it in and come home. He is still in quarantine. yes maybe he could have made that decision earlier, but it is hard to put an old head on young shoulders, and sometimes it's a bit of boiling frog. And good luck getting a job in Australia right now.
4. My nephew is currently in Canada on the same sort of visa. However, he left earlier, has a house and a job in the mining industry and has decided to wait it out in Canada. At some point, his visa will expire and he will need to return home. He'll probably be right for a job - mining engineers seem to be still in demand, although who knows with China.
5. My son lives and works as a lawyer in Dubai. His visa there is fully dependent on his employment. If he loses employment, he must leave the country within 30 days. For the moment, he is "securely" employed by a large global law firm, but this may not always be the case. In that even, he will be forced to come home as he will not be able to stay without a visa. And good luck getting a job as a lawyer in Australia right now.
6. Another distant relative is a nurse who was working in the UK. By comparison, she raced home in March, at high cost, before quarantine was imposed. However, despite being a fully qualified and experienced registered nurse, she has struggled to get work. She relocated from Qld to Syd on a job offer at a big Sydney hospital in late March. That offer was rescinded when the lockdown cancelled non-essential surgery, and she has been unemployed ever since - yes really, so she relocated back to Qld to live cheaply with family. However, she finally has a new job, also in Sydney, starting in a week or two.

So whilst I understand the angst people are expressing about "tourists", most Australians who are still overseas now are not tourists, and have reasons for that, and it is not always just a "choice" to return home.

 

[jakeseven7]

I know a lot of people have been saying "why didn't they come home sooner" or "who are these people" about the overseas Australians. Here are a few examples from my immediate circle:
1. a friend's son in the UK working as a chef. Visa expiry end of July 2020. He had a flat and a job and knowing his visa would expire, he had arrangements in place for return in late June. When the virus hit in March, his employer kept them working until the full lock down, his land lord would not refund anything on the last couple of months on the flat and, despite a lot of effort, he could not get another flight at a price he could afford to come home earlier. His airline would not refund his pre-booked cheap ticket bought in December 2019, as they had not cancelled the flight. In the end, it was just easier for him to let things take their course and come home as planned in late June. He's home and out of quarantine and well - but good luck getting a job as a chef here in Australia right now.
2. Another friend's son, dual UK/Aus citizen, but raised in Australia, living in the UK with his Aus girlfriend for the past 3 years. Both work as accountants and so have been working from home and not really affected by the lockdown too badly. Her Visa expires in October. They had applied for a partner visa for her to stay. This has now been declined (I don't know why - they are a genuine couple and have been for years, so maybe it is somehting to do with changed rules for virus, I just don;t know), so they now unexpectedly have to either both come home, or just she comes home and he stays and they are separated for who knows how long.
3. A distant relative got the under 30s visa to work in Canada. He left here last November (at the last possible moment to take up the visa) and had a job in the ski season at a Canadian resort. Once the virus hit, he was one of the lucky ones to be retained and he kept working until season end in late April. Things didn't seem too bad at that point, and he had a 2 year visa, so he planned to stay on and live from money earned during his winter season. But as time has passed and the virus has impacted, he has been unable to get any work, has been unable to travel, and decided to throw it in and come home. He is still in quarantine. yes maybe he could have made that decision earlier, but it is hard to put an old head on young shoulders, and sometimes it's a bit of boiling frog. And good luck getting a job in Australia right now.
4. My nephew is currently in Canada on the same sort of visa. However, he left earlier, has a house and a job in the mining industry and has decided to wait it out in Canada. At some point, his visa will expire and he will need to return home. He'll probably be right for a job - mining engineers seem to be still in demand, although who knows with China.
5. My son lives and works as a lawyer in Dubai. His visa there is fully dependent on his employment. If he loses employment, he must leave the country within 30 days. For the moment, he is "securely" employed by a large global law firm, but this may not always be the case. In that even, he will be forced to come home as he will not be able to stay without a visa. And good luck getting a job as a lawyer in Australia right now.
6. Another distant relative is a nurse who was working in the UK. By comparison, she raced home in March, at high cost, before quarantine was imposed. However, despite being a fully qualified and experienced registered nurse, she has struggled to get work. She relocated from Qld to Syd on a job offer at a big Sydney hospital in late March. That offer was rescinded when the lockdown cancelled non-essential surgery, and she has been unemployed ever since - yes really, so she relocated back to Qld to live cheaply with family. However, she finally has a new job, also in Sydney, starting in a week or two.

So whilst I understand the angst people are expressing about "tourists", most Australians who are still overseas now are not tourists, and have reasons for that, and it is not always just a "choice" to return home.

I agree I think the ‘they should have just come home sooner’ brigade need to calm down and be quiet. There will always be a need for Australians to both leave and return. It’s up to our government to devise a process to make that happen safely and ongoing.

 

[DC3]

I know a lot of people have been saying "why didn't they come home sooner" or "who are these people" about the overseas Australians. Here are a few examples from my immediate circle ...

Wow. Having read all of that, it’s as though the family has been cursed.

Edit: At least all COVID-free

 

[p--and--t]

I cannot see how a sales stop could be effected. Or whether would be legally possible (what grounds would an airline, for example, Qantas, have for refusing to transport an Aussie back to Australia who has a confirmed booking and right of entry?) There will be Aussie overseas with visas about to expire. They would then be non-lawful in their country and pretty much have to come home.

Regardless of conjecture/ amongst us, the gov (via the national cabinet) have announced a weekly return limit and they will devise a method through foreign and home affairs to make it happen. I guess we will find out the method if a reporter asks the right question at the right time.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Not sure if this point picked up upthread....

With NSW user-pay quarantine, I heard it applies to flight bookings made after midnight tonight.

So a small loophole for those who make booking today or had bookings for a while.

 

[Seat0B]

Wow. Having read all of that, it’s as though the family has been cursed.

Edit: At least all COVID-free

Yes thanks @DC3 we are very lucky in that regard. And I’m grateful. It just riles me up a bit when people especially the media (and I’ve even heard it from the PM ) say “well serves them right, they should have come home earlier”. It’s just not always that simple.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Regardless of conjecture/ amongst us, the gov (via the national cabinet) have announced a weekly return limit and they will devise a method through foreign and home affairs to make it happen. I guess we will find out the method if a reporter asks the right question at the right time.

Ah, we are talking about two very different things.

I was initially responding to luxury-lizard's post about payment for quarantine upfront.

Airlines limiting capacity to 50 is not an issue. That's sales related and the fare buckets need only total 50.

'Upfront' quarantine payment is another issue. If you score one of the 50 seats on a flight into Australia, I don't know if there are any grounds that you could be denied boarding if you are a citizen returning home.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So whilst I understand the angst people are expressing about "tourists", most Australians who are still overseas now are not tourists, and have reasons for that, and it is not always just a "choice" to return home.

I agree the choices aren't easy, but I'd say they are all still choices (which are 'to stay').

Personally I have no problem with someone wanting to stay overseas... I too would stay if I just had a month left on my UK visa, or if I had a great job in Dubai. As long as you are willing to pay for quarantine you should be free to come and go as you wish.

 

[Toula92122]

the question of expats not scurrying home at the first sign of trouble is more complex than people might imagine. As a long term expat, 20+ years, we briefly considered it but taking into account we decided against it.

1. Husband was waiting for ankle replacement surgery which was scheduled for in August. If we returned to Oz we would lose our US medical insurance and place in queue and would have to start the process again. As it turned out once they lifted bans on elective surgery he managed to move that date up 2 months. He is now 5 weeks post operative but there is no way at this time he could travel until rehab etc is complete.

2. Employment. Husband is currently employed full time and earning a good salary. If we returned to Oz, being in late 50s, how much opportunity is there for him to find meaningful, well paid employment in a pandemic? So the financial impact would mean us having to access savings early as it's doubtful that at this stage of life we would be able to ever have a solid income stream from employment.

3. If we returned to Oz we don't have a residence or family we could live with. How easy would it be to find somewhere to live at this time without being able to produce payslips. Most of our assets are outside Oz and rental agencies don't take kindly to things that do not enable them to tick the required boxes. If we remain where we are we are relatively comfortable on a daily basis. We are fortunate in that our lease is month to month so we can pivot quickly in the future if we decide to leave but for many others that would not be an easy option as landlords here are not allowing people out of leases and even if they can not evict they will come after them in the future via credit reporting.

All the people we know in the US/Canada/UK, none are planning to return to Oz at this time. Their lives are entwined in existing community. They have jobs, they have immigration situations which would be jeopardised if they retreated to Oz. One friend has been having medical treatment for a blood disorder for past couple of years so if she returned to Oz how long would it be for her to get into the system for treatment?

Here in San Diego we have in excess of 500 cases a day and have had over 400 deaths, greater than all of Oz. But the truth is you get on with life and don't even notice it. It's frustrating when COVIDIOTS refuse to wear masks at stores etc and argue with staff, but on a day to day basis life goes on. I don't read beyond the media page with statistics. Truth is life has become smaller and smaller with very few excursions outside the home beyond essentials. It's been an exhausting 4 years since Trump was elected so most of what's going on now feels no different from his rhetoric.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think the media and comments in the media/bulletin boards are confusing two issues.

If you want to avoid the charge for quarantine, you have had time to come home by now, or at least to book your ticket to come home.

Other than that, if people have made the choice to stay overseas, and don't want to come home, there is nothing to say they *have* to. Just they will have to pay the charge if they do.

 

[luxury-lizard]

I've posted a couple of times on this thread - my only point is that I have been surprised by the number of Australians still living overseas (now wanting to return to OZ). I realise that many are like @Toula92122 (ie are long term residents / dual citizens of other countries) but these people are staying put (I presume). So I fully realise all citizens (/perm residents) have the right to return - just surprised at the number.

Hotel quarantine would not be necessary if people would just DO THE RIGHT THING and self-isolate as per instructions. (MR LL and I did it as we returned from a cut-short holiday just a week before hotel quarantine was introduced and it wasn' hard to do - it didn't cost anyone anything).

 

[Toula92122]

I think it's totally fine to say returning travellers should pay for their quarantine. I am more than happy with that. However as the user pays I think I should be entitled to nominate where I want to stay, give me the option at different price levels. If I'm paying I would be more than happy to pay extra to have a serviced apartment with a kitchen so I could at least have a bit more space.