Priority boarding on QF domestic - what is the story?

[drron]

Incorrect.. At the door it only has the emerald Dot.. no sapphire ti be seen. I've never seen a gold get in before..

Absolutely true as they dont let this platinum in(AA of course).
I can get away with it at premium desks and security lines saying I am plat.
Doesn't work at J lounges though.

 

[djfuzz]

Here you can see DJ use only 1 ground staff and 1 BP scanner to handle 2 boarding lanes.

View attachment 3465

*Ahem* Credit for photo, please?

 

[connieguy]

Thanks for the update Red Roo,

Everybody - Give them a few weeks to sort this out. Red Roo has told us works are underway so give them a few weeks to sort things out, trial it all and find a solution.

Once this is fully set up, then you can criticise them.

Sure, just we need to set the bar as this comment from Red Roo was of concern:

... To be honest, I do not think it is what you are looking for but we are listening to all the issues and it is a start...

So we have QF listening. Now we, as the customer, need to be sure QF understands and accepts what we are expecting.

 

[connieguy]

*Ahem* Credit for photo, please?

Sorry mate, I do apologize for that. Photo credit DjFuzz. During this process, I have saved every Priority Boarding photo so we have ample examples to show what we, the customer, expects and what others have provided.

Here all that QF needs to do is to go to the DJ domestic boarding gates to see how DJ implemented their Priority Boarding system. As an engineer, I hate re-inventing the wheel. However some prescribe to the "Not Invented Here" method and always insist on re-inventing the wheel, with sometime undesired results.

So give credit where it is due. DJ did implement Domestic Priority Boarding first and got it working very well. That is now part of Australian aviation history. All that QF needs to do is to eat a bit of humble pie and duplicate what DJ have done.

 

[medhead]

Thanks for the update Red Roo it will be interesting to see how things go.

I know many, including myself, hold up DJ as an example. I think the key difference is DJ have maintained strict control over the boarding process and announcements from at least early last year. My experience with qantas is that control can go missing at times, especially peak times. For example, I've lost count of the number of times the gate agent asks the FA doing the scanning if they are ready to go and that then triggers a mad stampede to the gate. I appreciate that these guys(staff) want to get going but I really think when that happens they just need to do nothing until the announcement is made. I have experienced one announcement in SYD that included words to the effect "business, platinum, etc. So you can all just sit down and wait your turn". Sounds rude. But I think it was great because there was an attempt to control boarding.

Basically if you don't control the boarding and condition people to expect that control priority boarding will never work. DJ have/had that control at the initial part of the boarding process, introducing priority lanes is a natural extension of that control.

Again thanks for listening and the engagement.

Wasn't there a big debate with Dave Noble on this subject some time ago?

What was the outcome?

Dave's gripe was that the business lounge was called a business lounge and hence OWS should be allowed in, as I recall. This was due to the situation that OWS are not permitted into the QF J lounge.

 

[connieguy]

...Basically if you don't control the boarding and condition people to expect that control priority boarding will never work. DJ have/had that control at the initial part of the boarding process, introducing priority lanes is a natural extension of that control...

Airports today are nothing but signs. Paxs today do understand what a Priority sign means, whether it is for Priority Check-in, Priority Security Screening, Priority Immigration, Priority Customs, Priority Boarding, etc.

When there is no signage and tape barriers, that is where the Priority system breaks down and no amount of PA announcements will change that.

As for making a Priority Boarding PA announcement at the start of boarding, well why is that priority? I mean anybody can get to the gate early and be the first to board if they so wish. If you go to the lounge, as we all do, and leave the lounge when the boarding call is made, well you are most certainty not the first at the gate, if fact the boarding process has started, and so doing a Priority Boarding call at the start of the gate boarding will have NO benefit to someone arriving from the lounge.

Likewise Boarding at Convenience is not joining the end of the queue at my convenience. It is clearly Priority Boarding via a dedicated boarding lane.

So Priority Boarding / Boarding at Convenience is not something that can be implemented by using the PA system. Only a dedicated Priority lane to the BP scanner will do that job and deliver the advertised benefit.

 

[medhead]

Airports today are nothing but signs. Paxs today do understand what a Priority sign means, whether it is for Priority Check-in, Priority Security Screening, Priority Immigration, Priority Customs, Priority Boarding, etc.

When there is no signage and tape barriers, that is where the Priority system breaks down and no amount of PA announcements will change that.

Snip

So Priority Boarding / Boarding at Convenience is not something that can be implemented by using the PA system. Only a dedicated Priority lane to the BP scanner will do that job and deliver the advertised benefit.

Well I disagree, DJ successfully and consistently implemented pre-boarding priority for Gold in ADL and they still do. Sure that is not priority boarding with a lane yada, yada, yada. But it works and it works because of strict control via PA announcements.

However, all that aside. You are missing my point. Qantas boarding is currently a chaotic free for all. Qantas needs to control that as a very first step. Signs and such can come later. Sure people can read signs and will follow those signs, but that only treats the symptoms. The cause is lack of control and conditioning of qantas pax about the boarding process. Right now, today, if someone at qantas took 30 minutes to write a boarding script and then enforced it that would dramatically improve the current mess immediately.

Going on about what is and is not priority boarding is only confusing matters. First step is to put power back with the staff.

 

[connieguy]

Well I disagree, DJ successfully and consistently implemented pre-boarding priority for Gold in ADL and they still do...

Sure pre-boarding priority works but only if you are at the gate. If you are in the lounge, awaiting the boarding announcement, then by the time you arrive at the gate, the boarding process is well underway.

To me providing a lounge and priority boarding requires a dedicated lane to the BP scanner. That is unless the lounge announcement is made well in advance of the gate boarding announcement and you have ample time to get to the gate BEFORE the gate priority boarding announcement is made.

BTW DJ can implement a dedicated Priority boarding lane at ADL. More than enough room, so why have they not done so?

 

[JohnPhelan]

This post now superceded by #591

Incorrect.. At the door it only has the emerald Dot.. no sapphire ti be seen. I've never seen a gold get in before..

And you won't see a QF Gold get in. But you will see BA or AA Sapphire cardholders admitted.

Here's the excerpt from the oneworld website. Note the general rule for Sapphires and the specific exclusion from the QF Business Lounge is QF Gold members.

Sapphire: When travelling on any oneworld member airline, any customer with Sapphire tier status is welcome (with one guest travelling on a flight operated and marketed by a oneworld airline) at any oneworld airlines' pre-flight Business Class and frequent flyer lounges regardless of class of travel.
Exceptions:
....
2. Qantas Frequent Flyer Programme: Qantas Frequent Flyer Gold members may not use the Qantas Domestic Business Class Lounges.

 

[serfty]

Wasn't there a big debate with Dave Noble on this subject some time ago?

What was the outcome?

Dave's analysis based on the published rules at the time was logical; but not born out in practice.

Since then, the Rules have been updated and are specific:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Status[/TD]
[TD]Domestic Business Lounge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vMiddle"]

Emerald
​

[/TD]
[TD]Next onward flight that day must be on a oneworld operated and marketed flight[SUP]#[/SUP].
One guest allowed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vMiddle"]

Sapphire​

[/TD]
[TD]No access[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TABLE="class: grid, width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Member Type[/TD]
[TD]Domestic Business Lounge[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Platinum
[/TD]
[TD]Must be travelling on any flight the same day that shows Qantas, Jetstar Airlines[SUP]+[/SUP] or a oneworld flight number on your ticket.
Two guests allowed and do not need to be travelling.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vMiddle"]

Gold[/TD]
[TD]No access[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[JohnPhelan]

Dave's analysis based on the published rules at the time was logical; but not born out in practice.

Since then, the Rules have been updated and are specific:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Status
[/TD]
[TD]Domestic Business Lounge
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vMiddle"]

Emerald
​

[/TD]
[TD]Next onward flight that day must be on a oneworld operated and marketed flight[SUP]#[/SUP].
One guest allowed
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vMiddle"]

Sapphire​

[/TD]
[TD]No access
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]




[TABLE="class: grid, width: 400"]
[TR]
[TD]Member Type
[/TD]
[TD]Domestic Business Lounge
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

Platinum[/TD]
[TD]Must be travelling on any flight the same day that shows Qantas, Jetstar Airlines[SUP]+[/SUP] or a oneworld flight number on your ticket.
Two guests allowed and do not need to be travelling.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: vMiddle"]

Gold
[/TD]
[TD]No access
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Hmm, OK, that's certainly a change (and not for the better). I guess it was very difficult for the lounge dragons to explain why Sapphire members from other airlines were OK, but QF Gold were not.

But that means what appears on the oneworld website (as of today, and shown in my previous post) is totally wrong. Red Roo, could someone from QF contact the oneworld webmaster and get this fixed?

 

[medhead]

Sure pre-boarding priority works but only if you are at the gate. If you are in the lounge, awaiting the boarding announcement, then by the time you arrive at the gate, the boarding process is well underway.

To me providing a lounge and priority boarding requires a dedicated lane to the BP scanner. That is unless the lounge announcement is made well in advance of the gate boarding announcement and you have ample time to get to the gate BEFORE the gate priority boarding announcement is made.

BTW DJ can implement a dedicated Priority boarding lane at ADL. More than enough room, so why have they not done so?

I agree but we are talking about different things. I am sick to death of being trampled by people. Fixing that doesn't require a separate lane. At 6 am I have no problem getting to the gate before boarding starts.

A DJ person in ADL has said priority lanes are on the way. Why haven't they done this yet? At a guess I'd say they have more business on the east coast.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Thank you for the update. I know that, that thread (OWS - J Lounge access) went for a while.

 

[Danger]

Hi everyone,

I promised that as soon as I had a concrete update, I would share it with you all. To be honest, I do not think it is what you are looking for but we are listening to all the issues and it is a start.

In Sydney over the next few weeks we wil be trying out a number of different priority boarding options to see which works best (without getting into all the detail, it is not quite as easy as just putting up a sign). After this we are looking at rolling out to all other airports ASAP.

As you all seem to travel quite a bit, do let me know if you have any feedback.

Cheers,
Red Roo

Thanks for that. Please report back (hopefully sooner rather than later).

have a laugh and look at the cost of a business class seat MEL-PER and then compare it with a first class seat on AA LAX-JFK (roughly the same distance)

Unless you're talking First on a three class 767 with AA, then you're not comparing apples with apples.

Thanks for the update Red Roo,

Everybody - Give them a few weeks to sort this out. Red Roo has told us works are underway so give them a few weeks to sort things out, trial it all and find a solution.

Once this is fully set up, then you can criticise them.

I take your point, LiamR, but let's not forget a couple of other perfectly valid points. First, priority boarding is already listed as a benefit on the QF website and has been for some time. With due respect to Red Roo and the post above, to me the statement "After this we are looking at rolling out to all other airports" is not only an acknowledgement that priority boarding isn't working but that QF doesn't even have a process in place to fulfill this benefit. Again, this is despite it long being listed as a benefit. Second, it's arguable that had a handful of members on here not made it such an issue that QF would have 'gotten away with it' for much longer. It's all well and good to give QF time to find a solution but I think people have every right to be disappointed given these two points.

But that means what appears on the oneworld website (as of today, and shown in my previous post) is totally wrong. Red Roo, could someone from QF contact the oneworld webmaster and get this fixed?

Good luck with that. I've had great difficulty reporting issues with the oneworld website (and the booking tools specifically). I don't even get an automated response let alone a resolution.

 

[mark299]

I still don't agree with reconfiguring the gate reader to reject people as there are always going to be exceptions eg a WP & NB spouse who are not in the same pnr & are not linked. In that case what do you do when it rejects the NB pax? Tell the WP to board & make the NB spouse wait, make them both wait or let them both board & somehow remember to manually board that person later when the gate reader is accepting the rest of the pax? If the NB did mobile checkin you wouldn't even be able to pull the boarding pass butt to enter into the computer later.

I understand what you're trying to achieve but messing with gate readers is a recipe for disaster & will only end up causing more delays.



Domestically ground staff do not man the gate & assist with boarding pax they have to stay at the counter & keep an eye on the whole boarding process, action any pax who have rejected at the gate, chase up fail to board pax, give final pax clearance etc. On all QF domestic flights 2 flight attendants should come up to board with the exception of a 737-400 when only one FA will board.



Heavens above you could almost fly business class to Nadi cheaper than that!

Is there any reason we can't have a gate ticket system like we have in the train stations? The block opens when a successful scan is done, and lets the person through. You can have the person, just there to monitor the whole process. Should make the process lot faster.

 

[OverrideServlet]

Just want to add another vote for not re-configuring the gate readers.

I think it would be best if Qantas just implemented it in the same way other airlines do, due to it being such a well understood system. It's also quite visually obvious to passengers.

Re-writing the software that runs the readers would be a big & costly task. I agree that functionally it's a simple change, but it'd require a lot of work & testing under the hood before it could be deployed.

 

[awilcockson]

Just want to add another vote for not re-configuring the gate readers.

I doubt that Qantas are even considering this option. There are far too many corner cases that would give them non-stop headaches. Plus there is just no need for it. Separate priority boarding lane. Simple. AA do it, VA do it, and it works well, whether there is one or two scanners at the gate.

 

[Red Roo]

Sure, just we need to set the bar as this comment from Red Roo was of concern:



So we have QF listening. Now we, as the customer, need to be sure QF understands and accepts what we are expecting.

Hi Gowatson,

By that comment, I only meant that I can not give you an exact resolution and exact date.

Reading all the comments on this thread, customers are looking for two lanes at boarding so that as Platinum Frequent Flyer, you can show up and board when you are ready and not have to stand at the back of a long line just because you wanted to finish your drink in the lounge .

The reason implementation is more than just a sign is that airport regulations require we have a plan for where each line will go (regardless of whether it will ever be long or not). This ensures people will not be lining up past fire exits, retail shops, in the way of other gates etc. And we have to have this established for all gates in all airports.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.

Cheers,
Red Roo

 

[goldy]

I still don't agree with reconfiguring the gate reader to reject people as there are always going to be exceptions eg a WP & NB spouse who are not in the same pnr & are not linked. In that case what do you do when it rejects the NB pax? Tell the WP to board & make the NB spouse wait, make them both wait or let them both board & somehow remember to manually board that person later when the gate reader is accepting the rest of the pax? If the NB did mobile checkin you wouldn't even be able to pull the boarding pass butt to enter into the computer later.

I never proffered it as the only solution to the problem, but one of many. As was mentioned, on the most basic level, all they "need" is a pair of eyes.

IMO, if you cant be bothered or don't have the facility to book your travel under the same RECLOC, then why should your benefits be extended to a third party who in your example just so happens to be your spouse. The onus should be on you to either book under the same RECLOC or link them.
Qantas, frown upon members inviting other people into lounges that they are not travelling with, despite allowing you a guest.

 

[mark299]

Hi Gowatson,

By that comment, I only meant that I can not give you an exact resolution and exact date.

Reading all the comments on this thread, customers are looking for two lanes at boarding so that as Platinum Frequent Flyer, you can show up and board when you are ready and not have to stand at the back of a long line just because you wanted to finish your drink in the lounge .

The reason implementation is more than just a sign is that airport regulations require we have a plan for where each line will go (regardless of whether it will ever be long or not). This ensures people will not be lining up past fire exits, retail shops, in the way of other gates etc. And we have to have this established for all gates in all airports.

If you have any other questions, just let me know.

Cheers,
Red Roo

Thanks for the reply Red Roo.

Considering we only have one lane now, by having two lanes we will potentially only be shortening the length of the lines and hence should have no issues with blocking fire exits, retail shops etc (interms of the length of queue).

If having a second lane for priority customers is a new thing and requires planning and time to implement; what was Qantas's current plan to implement priority boarding? Or is there none yet? but simply have it stated in the privileges? Why can't we have an answer to this simple question?