Priority boarding on QF domestic - what is the story?

[Moopere]

It was a full flight. With so much overhead luggage that they needed to call people to the front of the plane to bring their luggage which would then be checked into the hold. And the crew were trying to slam shut the mid storage bins that hang down. It was crazy. People were putting bags so big that there was no way the hanging bins would ever close. It was insane.

Yes. This will be the QF change in luggage policy bearing fruit. Didn't think it would take long. No-one is going to be taking a single 32KG piece of luggage (OH&S says thats a 2 man lift!!).

So, of the 2x 15KG bags that would previously have been checked in, one is now trying to find its way into the cabin. Yes, a 7KG restriction there, but everyone would have noticed PAX trying to push the limits of that rule.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

No doubt you mean J class pax plus WPs.

Of course, if you really want to reduce the numbers in the premium line (especially at peak times on the major shuttle routes), then it could just be restricted to J class pax.

So the current practice (sometimes anyway) of Business, Platinum & Gold plus OW Emerald & Sapphire members should technically be Business, Platinum & OW Emerald only.

What is it for other OW carriers eg CX & AA Emerald & Sapphire or just Emerald only?

Then you have the issue of the priority boarding not being consistent with those who use the Premium Checkin which is for Business, Platinum & Gold. If the priority boarding is changed to exclude QF SG & OWS there will be more cries of QF inconsistency.

Yes. This will be the QF change in luggage policy bearing fruit. Didn't think it would take long. No-one is going to be taking a single 32KG piece of luggage (OH&S says thats a 2 man lift!!).

So, of the 2x 15KG bags that would previously have been checked in, one is now trying to find its way into the cabin. Yes, a 7KG restriction there, but everyone would have noticed PAX trying to push the limits of that rule.

Don't even get me started on this one!!! This would have to be one of the all time dumbest corporate decisions of the decade & it's abundantly clear that whoever was responsible for making it has no idea of what happens at an airport & is out of touch with the countless scenarios of when people do need to carry two bags that can still weigh less than 23 kilos.

Customer Care must be getting absolutely smashed by complaints on this one, never mind all the people who say it's the last straw & will now choose Virgin next time. As someone pointed out "even Jetstar let you have two pieces (totalling 20kg)". Yes they do however you would have had to first pay for the extra for baggage on top of the fare first ie not be travelling on a "lite" fare or whatever they may be called now.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Don't even get me started on this one!!! This would have to be one of the all time dumbest corporate decisions of the decade & it's abundantly clear that whoever was responsible for making it has no idea of what happens at an airport & is out of touch with the countless scenarios of when people do need to carry two bags that can still weigh less than 23 kilos.

+1
1 bag totalling 23kg is ok, but 2 totalling 18kg is not ok (excluding WP's). This one takes the cake and really pi$$es me off.

 

[MattinCBR]

Mm. A really corporately relevant question this. All decent businesses need internal auditors to rate policy against practice. It certainly would appear that service delivery is either:

a) Not being audited or,
b) Audits are not being conducted in a frank and truthful way (common enough, but needs management policing), or
c) The audits are happening and are rigorous, but management is ignoring them (also common).

All three options are serious. Corporates with ISO rated quality systems can be given warnings or even lose their rating because of poor audit results ....

I have often wondered this about Qantas, it often appears their staff are allowed to "get away" with ignoring policies - both at the airport and on board.

There really are days when you wonder if senior management should just buy a range of fares (Y through to F) and travel as real humans for the day (More undercover customer than undercover boss).

Because you are right, any internal audit of the delivery of published services/benefits that was conducted properly would have to find that there are a pile of processes that appear to be optional - and there are days where i wonder why i should believe that if the lounges, the check in staff, the cabin crew and the baggage handlers are all free to make up their own rules, why not the engineers.

 

[serfty]

...

So, of the 2x 15KG bags that would previously have been checked in, one is now trying to find its way into the cabin. Yes, a 7KG restriction there, but everyone would have noticed PAX trying to push the limits of that rule.

Just to remind all at Qantas DO indeed permit up to 2 x 7kg carry-on for almost all¹ domestic jet services.


¹bar to/from Olympic Dam.

 

[Moopere]

Just to remind all at Qantas DO indeed permit up to 2 x 7kg carry-on for almost all¹ domestic jet services.

Yes, sorry, I must have been ambiguous. What I meant in my original post was that you used to be able to take, say a 10K, 13KG bag and check them both in, then wander onboard with 1 very small bag if you wished.

Because the QF policy has changed to 1 checkin piece of luggage, and because most folks won't be all that keen to stuff a single bag with 23KG (or 32KG!) the previous 13KG bag is probably being checked in, but the 10KG is migrating itself into cabin luggage in one form or another, whether with or against the rules.

For example. I used to check everything in except a small bag with emergency clothes and other nick-nacks (in case of lost/delayed checkin bags). Now I definitely always take 2 bags into the cabin. No way I'm going to fill my one checkin bag to 32KG (QP), thats just way too heavy to move about. It gets about 15KG, and the two checkins have gone up to near their limit of 7KG, which is not that comfortable either frankly, but what can you do?

Assuming that there are at least a few folks like me, its not hard to see how cabin luggage has nearly doubled in a single change of policy, suddenly making locker space a tremendous premium (ala US airlines). So now, as when flying in the US, boarding early is an imperative. The knock on effect of the luggage change makes priority boarding extremely valuable. Previously, to me, it was a nice touch as recognition of ones ticket or status and is always a lovely ego stroke, but now its much more and is a right that requires defending.

Not many J class or elite travellers are going to enjoy the process of having cabin luggage withdrawn for cargo stowage.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

because the qf policy has changed to 1 checkin piece of luggage, and because most folks won't be all that keen to stuff a single bag with 23kg (or 32kg!) the previous 13kg bag is probably being checked in, but the 10kg is migrating itself into cabin luggage in one form or another, whether with or against the rules.

For example. I used to check everything in except a small bag with emergency clothes and other nick-nacks (in case of lost/delayed checkin bags). Now i definitely always take 2 bags into the cabin. No way i'm going to fill my one checkin bag to 32kg (qp), thats just way too heavy to move about. It gets about 15kg, and the two checkins have gone up to near their limit of 7kg, which is not that comfortable either frankly, but what can you do?

bingo. 10/10

 

[TonyHancock]

Sunday 21st August 2011 - QF583 SYD-PER

The call went along the lines of:

"This is for passengers flying to Perth on QF583, please remain seated. We will commence boarding in approximately one minute. Passengers with small children, or requiring assistance please board now, also Business Customers, Qantas Platinum and Gold FF's and Oneworld emerald and sapphire FF's can board."

This was repeated twice before general boarding was called, which was done by row.

There was no priority lane, and clearly if FF's were in the lounge they would not benefit from this. If you were in J, or a WP/SG and at the gate at the time of the boarding call it looked as though it worked.

Sunday 21st August 2011 - QF467 SYD-MEL

The call was:

"QF467 to Melbourne is now ready for boarding."

The scrum then commenced. There were two lines with two staff scanning BP's. The lines degenerated at about 4 deep to go in all directions as people simply wandered up and joined the queue near the front.

QF583 departed at 19:35 and QF467 departed at 19:45.

Is priority boarding a published benefit for domestic J passengers?

 

[opusman]

Is priority boarding a published benefit for domestic J passengers?

No it's not, and it's not a published benefit for SG either (although boarding at convenience IS a published OW benefit for OWE/OWS).

The only class of pax Qantas specifically offer priority boarding for domestic flights is WP, afaik. So if the boarding call invites WP/SG/OWE/OWS then I would say it's Qantas fulfilling their OW "at convenience" obligation rather than an attempt to offer priority boarding to WPs. And the Js just get thrown in as a bonus

 

[Danger]

Sunday 21st August 2011 - QF583 SYD-PER

The call went along the lines of:

"This is for passengers flying to Perth on QF583, please remain seated. We will commence boarding in approximately one minute. Passengers with small children, or requiring assistance please board now, also Business Customers, Qantas Platinum and Gold FF's and Oneworld emerald and sapphire FF's can board."

This was repeated twice before general boarding was called, which was done by row.

Sounds like success, more or less.

I've flown six domestic QF sectors between the capitals in the past three or so weeks and none have had a priority boarding call. In addition to my one-man protest out of PER a couple of weeks ago, I've got a couple of other bits of information to add.

In Canberra I queried at the service desk as to why priority boarding was made. Two staff, almost in unison, said it's not offered domestically. So I whipped out the section of the QF website where it says it is offered. They called the duty manager whose excuse was 'We don't own the airport'. I was puzzled by this. I wonder if an excuse of 'We don't own the planes, we just lease them' would satisfy passengers after a technical issue, for example.

In Melbourne on Monday, no call. I enquired at the service desk to be told "because there was no one here. We were all upstairs dealing with an issue". This rings true because not only was there no priority boarding call, there was no call at all. When they were ready FAs began boarding the already queued passengers.

Yesterday in Perth, again no call. I enquired at the service desk to be told something knew. 'There's only reader at this gate so it's not possible to do' to which I replied 'doesn't Perth only have two gates with dual readers?' His response: 'actually, there's only one gate with with two readers'. So by his logic, Perth, being, at a guess, the fourth business domestic airport in Australia, doesn't offer priority boarding at any of its 25-odd gates, bar one. I pushed the point with the gentleman, whipped out my iPad where the benefit is listed and put it to him that the benefit is a bit of a farce. He basically agreed and suggested I contact customer service.

Also yesteday, in Adelaide, no call. I enquired at the desk to be told priority boarding is only offered for international flights. I again pulled out the iPad and showed the gentleman the stated benefit. He seemed genuinely surprised, thanked me for bringing it to his attention and said he would follow it up. Again, he seemed genuine.

 

[simongr]

Why do people keep pressing the gate staff about priority boarding? We know that it isn't in place - why waste people's time about this? It is on the radar for QF now. There can only be one of two outcomes now for Red Roo to maintain or establish any credibility:

- Come back and detail the implementation of Priority Boarding in line with the published benefit
- Come back and advise that on investigation Management have decided to withdraw the benefit

The interesting comment above regarding Perth's lack of dual scanners does make the investigation part a little more detailed than probably we initially thought it would take.

To all of the comments regarding the checking that QF have to do and "have you seen the lines at the gates" - it doesn't matter what we are seeing now - I expect that the airport policies/agreements with the airlines require any changes to the gate arrangements to have the proper checks in place. We might think the checks are farcical or pointless but QF wont have an option to not do them.

I think we should give Red Roo a couple of weeks to come back to us on this. It seems a little pointless constantly pointing out that the benefit isnt there...

 

[Danger]

Why do people keep pressing the gate staff about priority boarding? We know that it isn't in place - why waste people's time about this? It is on the radar for QF now. There can only be one of two outcomes now for Red Roo to maintain or establish any credibility:

- Come back and detail the implementation of Priority Boarding in line with the published benefit
- Come back and advise that on investigation Management have decided to withdraw the benefit

The interesting comment above regarding Perth's lack of dual scanners does make the investigation part a little more detailed than probably we initially thought it would take.

To all of the comments regarding the checking that QF have to do and "have you seen the lines at the gates" - it doesn't matter what we are seeing now - I expect that the airport policies/agreements with the airlines require any changes to the gate arrangements to have the proper checks in place. We might think the checks are farcical or pointless but QF wont have an option to not do them.

I think we should give Red Roo a couple of weeks to come back to us on this. It seems a little pointless constantly pointing out that the benefit isnt there...

I take your point, simongr, but I disagree. First, while I accept Red Roo has said he/she is taking this further and investigating, it should never have got to the point and, I believe, only did because there was so much noise about it made on this thread. Second, I don't see how it's wasting people's time. The gate agents or service desk staff are ultimately the ones who provide this benefit. Just like the limitations on carry-on bags, the buck stops with the gate agents. They are the ones who, ultimately, enforce or not the requirement. The same is true for priority boarding. Third, there are countless examples on this thread where gate staff have said that priority boarding doesn't exist for domestic flights, which is in direct contrast to the QF website. To me, this indicates a much broader issue, that being the disconnect between QF management and an understanding of what the passenger's benefits are and their expections. Fourth, with full respect to Red Roo, if the benefit was something that had just begun to lapse or was perhaps starting to fall down a little, than perhaps fair enough. This is not a case of, for example, the benefit having been eroded a little over time, or existing in all places except one port or even occasions of occurring more often than not. With few exemptions, this thread clearly indicates the benefit is not being applied. Again, full respect to the QF rep who has taken it on board, but why did it take a fuss to be made before QF looked into? To me, it's clear the benefit is nothing but lip service. and was never intended to be implemented with any degree of benefit to the passenger.

Finally, if gate staff get enough enquiries, they are more likely to pass it higher, meaning the concerns from passengers will be coming from more than just AFF.

 

[nonpop]

+1
1 bag totalling 23kg is ok, but 2 totalling 18kg is not ok (excluding WP's). This one takes the cake and really pi$$es me off.

+2.
+ everyone in our office.
Silly, silly policy of 1 bag.

 

[medhead]

To add regarding making checks. At the very least qantas has to satisfy OHS legislation. If they made a change an a staff member was hurt the first question would be "what risk assessment did you do?" Imagine I'd they said none.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Just checked the "Platinum Benefits" page on the QF website.

The section on Priority Boarding now reads:

Board your flight at your convenience with priority boarding available on selected Qantas international flights

Has this been changed to reflect the international-only bit?

 

[oz_mark]

Just checked the "Platinum Benefits" page on the QF website.

The section on Priority Boarding now reads:

Board your flight at your convenience with priority boarding available on selected Qantas international flights

Has this been changed to reflect the international-only bit?

I think it is only mentioned on the page comparing the levels. Really, I wish Qantas would just stick a '*where available' rider on it!

 

[Danger]

Just checked the "Platinum Benefits" page on the QF website.

The section on Priority Boarding now reads:

Board your flight at your convenience with priority boarding available on selected Qantas international flights

Has this been changed to reflect the international-only bit?

This is another one of those QF inconsistencies. As oz_mark mentions below, the compare benefits page outlines priority boarding as a benefit fo Platinum on both domestic and international.

I think it is only mentioned on the page comparing the levels. Really, I wish Qantas would just stick a '*where available' rider on it!

Of course, this would be a reduction in benefits. To me, the caveat 'where available' is the biggest cop-out. QF could add this footnote to all of their benefits. It's already there for priority screening, for example. 'Where available' might as well say 'We'll offer it as a benefit but because it's 'where available' you're pretty much assured of it never occurring in rereality'.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

No it's not, and it's not a published benefit for SG either (although boarding at convenience IS a published OW benefit for OWE/OWS).

The only class of pax Qantas specifically offer priority boarding for domestic flights is WP, afaik. So if the boarding call invites WP/SG/OWE/OWS then I would say it's Qantas fulfilling their OW "at convenience" obligation rather than an attempt to offer priority boarding to WPs. And the Js just get thrown in as a bonus

When airlines join an alliance they should adopt the practices wholeheartedly in the case with regard to priority boarding otherwise you look inconsistent. For example why should a OWS member get priority boarding while a QF SG member does not. IMHO access to Priority Boarding should be offered to those pax who are eligible for Premium Checkin, Premium Security, Lounge entry ie SG/WP/CL/J pax so you have uniformity not anomalies - there's already enough of the latter.

Sunday 21st August 2011 - QF583 SYD-PER

The call went along the lines of:

"This is for passengers flying to Perth on QF583, please remain seated. We will commence boarding in approximately one minute. Passengers with small children, or requiring assistance please board now, also Business Customers, Qantas Platinum and Gold FF's and Oneworld emerald and sapphire FF's can board."

This was repeated twice before general boarding was called, which was done by row.

There was no priority lane, and clearly if FF's were in the lounge they would not benefit from this. If you were in J, or a WP/SG and at the gate at the time of the boarding call it looked as though it worked.

Sunday 21st August 2011 - QF467 SYD-MEL

The call was:

"QF467 to Melbourne is now ready for boarding."

The scrum then commenced. There were two lines with two staff scanning BP's. The lines degenerated at about 4 deep to go in all directions as people simply wandered up and joined the queue near the front.

QF583 departed at 19:35 and QF467 departed at 19:45.

Besides needing to have a dedicated Priority Boarding lane for domestic as they do for international, they should make a pre-boarding call inviting Priority pax to board as they did in Tony's case above for QF583. To announce a flight is boarding, then as an afterthought say J/WP/SG pax only is leaving it too late as the masses hear "boarding call QF583" & tune out to everything else ie they won't sit back down and wait then the bunfight commences.

I've flown six domestic QF sectors between the capitals in the past three or so weeks and none have had a priority boarding call. In addition to my one-man protest out of PER a couple of weeks ago, I've got a couple of other bits of information to add.

In Canberra I queried at the service desk as to why priority boarding was made. Two staff, almost in unison, said it's not offered domestically. So I whipped out the section of the QF website where it says it is offered. They called the duty manager whose excuse was 'We don't own the airport'. I was puzzled by this. I wonder if an excuse of 'We don't own the planes, we just lease them' would satisfy passengers after a technical issue, for example.

In Melbourne on Monday, no call. I enquired at the service desk to be told "because there was no one here. We were all upstairs dealing with an issue". This rings true because not only was there no priority boarding call, there was no call at all. When they were ready FAs began boarding the already queued passengers.

Yesterday in Perth, again no call. I enquired at the service desk to be told something knew. 'There's only reader at this gate so it's not possible to do' to which I replied 'doesn't Perth only have two gates with dual readers?' His response: 'actually, there's only one gate with with two readers'. So by his logic, Perth, being, at a guess, the fourth business domestic airport in Australia, doesn't offer priority boarding at any of its 25-odd gates, bar one. I pushed the point with the gentleman, whipped out my iPad where the benefit is listed and put it to him that the benefit is a bit of a farce. He basically agreed and suggested I contact customer service.

Also yesteday, in Adelaide, no call. I enquired at the desk to be told priority boarding is only offered for international flights. I again pulled out the iPad and showed the gentleman the stated benefit. He seemed genuinely surprised, thanked me for bringing it to his attention and said he would follow it up. Again, he seemed genuine.

I flew BNE/ADL last night on QF665 & they certainly made a Priority Boarding call for J/WP/SG & OWE/OWS to board. Despite being a 737-400 whereby only one F/A usually comes up to board, there were 2 F/A's boarding. There was an F/A on Duty Travel so I think she was the 'extra' one helping out with boarding as I've seen that happen several times.

At other times in BNE on 737-400's even when there is only one F/A to board I have still heard the Priority Boarding call so I don't see why it can't be done in PER if there's only one gate reader.

As for the CBR Duty Manager's comment about not owning the airport, since when does the owner of an airport dictate how an airline does its boarding? Wonder if it was the guy who used to work for Skystar Ground Handling in DRW.

 

[oz_mark]

Of course, this would be a reduction in benefits. To me, the caveat 'where available' is the biggest cop-out. QF could add this footnote to all of their benefits. It's already there for priority screening, for example. 'Where available' might as well say 'We'll offer it as a benefit but because it's 'where available' you're pretty much assured of it never occurring in rereality'.

They could stick it there till they sort it out, It will help you guys keep your blood pressure under control :mrgreen:

 

[ozbeachbabe]

The gate agents or service desk staff are ultimately the ones who provide this benefit. Just like the limitations on carry-on bags, the buck stops with the gate agents. They are the ones who, ultimately, enforce or not the requirement. The same is true for priority boarding. Third, there are countless examples on this thread where gate staff have said that priority boarding doesn't exist for domestic flights, which is in direct contrast to the QF website.

Finally, if gate staff get enough enquiries, they are more likely to pass it higher, meaning the concerns from passengers will be coming from more than just AFF.

With respect Danger, gate agents/service desk staff can only provide true priority boarding benefits ie dedicated boarding lane for anytime boarding vs board at convenience, if they are given the tools to do so & I'm talking about actual Priority Boardling lane signage etc as Virgin do & a number of other carriers it would seem from the pics posted earlier on this thread.

If real Priority Boarding is implemented then there would be a new corporate spiel to read out to reflect that and only then can staff really deliver what you want.

Also WRT carry-on bags, the buck stops with the Flight Attendants. It's their train set & as such they have the final say. It's no use ground staff saying "that's okay to go on" because if the F/A believes it's not, the item will be going in the hold.

I would suggest QF Management would pay more attention to what's said on here than what an employee might say to them as they're hearing it from the horses mouth so to speak.