Qantas Block Partner Earn on Competitor Routes

[Kendall Roy]

QF leaves oneworld

As someone who is about to hit LTG... Please NO!

Just remember QF is a founding member of OW.

I'd back QR to bail on OW before QF does.

 

[RichardMEL]

I’ve still got a sneaky suspicion that UA will have a nibble at the VA stake

Well DL has been investing in foreign airlines like AM so could be a thing. VA in Star is the other natural outcome, but that still would make the QR relationship.... unusual...

tbh VA as it stands is a better fit for Star with existing reationships (except EY and QR obviously) and certainly Star would be happy with them. VA1 burnt bridges with NZ, but they could probably sort something out (and thus screw QF/NZ transtasman as a bonus). While SQ and UA don't really need a domestic partner (SQ flies to all major capitals on their own, and UA does BNE/SYD/MEL nicely) NH/AC and others would enjoy the feed and of course VA would absolutely win both for feed but the ability to woo domstic pax with something to rival QF's dominance connectivity wide. VA's hodge podge alliances as are are good but not great imo.

Star definitely gave AN extra life.. for a little bit until it was screwed, but that's a whole other story.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Interesting idea which would definitely change the landscape. It does seem Bain is gearing up to offload the polished.. I mean VA... so could work out (although I wonder if QR has learned from the folly of major investments in other struggling airline groups by a near neighbour ......)... so yes could make sense. VA could then go Avois too and make a great (ahem) three-way with QR and BA. Woo

SQ, AC, UA would likely be dumped.. so would QF then join Star? Hard to tell if NZ and SQ would be happy with that or not (remember that brief flirtation SQ and QF had around 10 or so years back iirc?)

massive upheaval if so.... I can't see QF going to SkyTeam and they would be a lame duck going it alone so.....

well... may we live in interesting times.

The value in VA is Velocity.

Velocity -> move to -> Avios -> The increase in valuation of IAG Loyalty by having Avios in Australia may be enough to fund the transaction to purchase the airline.

Side benefit of hurting Virgin Red's plan to have a global Virgin currency, which helps IAG (who owns IAG?)

The currency value of Avios in Australia would mean Velocity could charge more to banks for points.
At the same time, Qantas points would be worth, less without a proper alliance, and thus probably saving the banks billions with a few basis points cost reduction on points.

Why the left-field partnership tie-up between VA-QR?

How many oneworld airlines does QR have a direct or indirect stake in? (who controls the alliance? ASK-control)
Who is the Chairman of oneworld?

Which airline kept flying during the pandemic and got aussies home? (build positive public sentiment)

How will Bain get a return on capital from VA? Realistic options are either the public markets or an airline. Which airline has money?

But hey, maybe it's all a coincidence and things will go back to the way were in 2019.

 

[RichardMEL]

As someone who is about to hit LTG... Please NO!

Just remember QF is a founding member of OW.

I'd back QR to bail on OW before QF does.

It does seem unusual and unlikely I grant you.

QR has their teeth financially into IAG (BA/IB/EI) and obviously the switch to Avio shows just how strong that is. Could they take BA/IB with them? that would weakean OW far, far more than QF going would (specially with LH about to buy up the comedy show that is AZ, but will probably pull them away from AF/KL/SkyTeam and create a very dominant party in europe (VS going to SkyTeam combined with AF/KL are serious competition - with DL of course - but still not quite up to the others imo).

You'd think though that some sort of the status quo may remain.. but then again QF have fractured relationships with MH, QR and seemingly CX at times so.... who knows!

 

[TheInsider]

As someone who is about to hit LTG... Please NO!

Just remember QF is a founding member of OW.

I'd back QR to bail on OW before QF does.

And when QR bails on OW, then why not EK joining in OW....

 

[RichardMEL]

Some very great points ttr. Al Baker is not stupid and has method to his... er.. madness.

probably a separate thread topic really the alliance conjecture, but the QR/VA thing definitely seems part of a bigger plan otherwise it makes no sense.

 

[RichardMEL]

And when QR bails on OW, then why not EK joining in OW....

EK doesn't strike me as the alliance sort.

EK 2020's reminds me of SQ of the 90's - the airline that put it all in their hub location as connecting the world. Sure they had strategic partnerships (to their advantage.. remember SQ/DL?).. EK to me, overflowing with 77W/380's is all about DXB and having as many connections online EK through DXB to everywhere else. All that OTT shiny glitz everywhere

I mean it's not out of the possibility of course but I just can't see it.

EK seems to pick and choose its partners for its own benefit (eg: EK/AC, EK/UA, EK/QF) - all areas of countries that can provide some feed to/from EK but not going to be much direct competition on key routes where EK has capacity and product.

Certainly QR in OW has probably irritated EK somewhat but their operation at DXB is still pretty safe.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

It does seem unusual and unlikely I grant you.

QR has their teeth financially into IAG (BA/IB/EI) and obviously the switch to Avio shows just how strong that is. Could they take BA/IB with them? that would weakean OW far, far more than QF going would (specially with LH about to buy up the comedy show that is AZ, but will probably pull them away from AF/KL/SkyTeam and create a very dominant party in europe (VS going to SkyTeam combined with AF/KL are serious competition - with DL of course - but still not quite up to the others imo).

You'd think though that some sort of the status quo may remain.. but then again QF have fractured relationships with MH, QR and seemingly CX at times so.... who knows!

How long til MH and CX move to Avios?

Qatar Government owns 9.99% of Cathay Pacific (increased since 2017)

https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-releases/2017/nov/qatar-airways-announces-its-acquisition-of-9-61--of-cathay-pacif.html

Malaysia Airlines and Qatar announce highly strategic partnership

https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-releases/2022/February/Qatar-Airways-and-Malaysia-Partnership.html

Finnair

Finnair Goes All-In On Doha & Qatar Airways

Finnair will fly from Nordic capitals to Doha, as part of a new strategic partnership with Qatar Airways. Here are the details.

onemileatatime.com

Oman Air sponsored into oneworld by Qatar

Oman Air To Join oneworld

Oman Air will join the oneworld Alliance, further strengthening the premier airline alliance’s leading position in the Middle East. Learn more.

www.oneworld.com

Qatar owns 5% of China Southern

Oneworld “in discussions” with China Southern on alliance membership

The former SkyTeam member China’s largest airline could join Oneworld, with British Airways and American Airlines in support.

www.executivetraveller.com

Rwand Air, close partner of Qatar, wants to join oneworld

RwandAir Wants To Join Oneworld Alliance

Kigali-based RwandAir wants to join the oneworld alliance with the support of Qatar Airways. This would be an awesome development.

onemileatatime.com

Royal Air Maroc & Qatar are good friends

Royal Air Maroc Relaunches Doha Flights As Qatar Seeks To Become A oneworld Hub

Royal Air Maroc is the second oneworld airline to (re)launch flights to Doha in as many weeks.

simpleflying.com

If there were a vote on if a founding airline stays or goes.... I wonder who controls the voting power?

 

[RichardMEL]

I also remembered QR/AY as also a thing (on top of OW I mean)

and re MH and QR... note recent changes to QFF terms regarding reduced earns on KUL-DOH in addition to the long standing coughtastic rates....

 

[trippin_the_rift]

EK doesn't strike me as the alliance sort.

EK 2020's reminds me of SQ of the 90's - the airline that put it all in their hub location as connecting the world. Sure they had strategic partnerships (to their advantage.. remember SQ/DL?).. EK to me, overflowing with 77W/380's is all about DXB and having as many connections online EK through DXB to everywhere else. All that OTT shiny glitz everywhere

I mean it's not out of the possibility of course but I just can't see it.

EK seems to pick and choose its partners for its own benefit (eg: EK/AC, EK/UA, EK/QF) - all areas of countries that can provide some feed to/from EK but not going to be much direct competition on key routes where EK has capacity and product.

Certainly QR in OW has probably irritated EK somewhat but their operation at DXB is still pretty safe.

Why are all EK's latest partners in Star Alliance?
Weird huh!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well DL has been investing in foreign airlines like AM so could be a thing. VA in Star is the other natural outcome, but that still would make the QR relationship.... unusual...

tbh VA as it stands is a better fit for Star with existing reationships (except EY and QR obviously) and certainly Star would be happy with them. VA1 burnt bridges with NZ, but they could probably sort something out (and thus screw QF/NZ transtasman as a bonus). While SQ and UA don't really need a domestic partner (SQ flies to all major capitals on their own, and UA does BNE/SYD/MEL nicely) NH/AC and others would enjoy the feed and of course VA would absolutely win both for feed but the ability to woo domstic pax with something to rival QF's dominance connectivity wide. VA's hodge podge alliances as are are good but not great imo.

Star definitely gave AN extra life.. for a little bit until it was screwed, but that's a whole other story.

Air Canada and aeroplan has set a solid precedent here… firmly a member of Star but partnerships for earn and redeem on EK, GF, EY and a host of non-star partners. Seems you can have both!

 

[Kendall Roy]

Al Baker is not stupid and has method to his... er.. madness.

I must admit, I did enjoy this shots fired from a few months back: Qatar Airways CEO hits back at Qantas over battle for more routes

 

[RichardMEL]

Well EK joining Star would be unexpected (ro me anyway) - but I wouldn't complain for a second lol.

QR certainly does seem quite comitted to OW.. or is it QatarWorld now?

which makes the VA thing even more seemingly out of place. Again it seems part of a bigger picture strategy.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

For heaven’s sake give us some hope…

Does QF then join *A?

So what you're saying is Qantas will become the next Ansett Australia?

Just remember QF is a founding member of OW.

that's why I don't see them leaving OW. The OneWorld frequent flyer system also has benefits over the others. In particular, there is a dedicated tier (Emerald) for top tier elites providing such benefits as GlobalFirst lounges and check-in and is something that neither Star Alliance or SkyTeam can provide. I also think that something like a change in alliance (or leaving an alliance) would cause a great deal of IT issues for an organization that is already severely challenged in this area. For instance, I can't see how QF could integrate with StarNet in a reasonable amount of time.

I'd back QR to bail on OW before QF does.

That's certainly a possibility. Another wild possibility while we're at it is that QR joins IAG and IAG (including BA) splits off from OneWorld and forms their own independent alliances with the various airlines.

Some very great points ttr. Al Baker is not stupid and has method to his... er.. madness.

That's up for debate!

 

[jakeseven7]

As someone who is about to hit LTG... Please NO!

Just remember QF is a founding member of OW.

I'd back QR to bail on OW before QF does.

It’s a joke post don’t worry.

QF basically owns the oneworld agenda with the other founding airlines.

You are right, QR will be out the door if anyone is and no great loss there anyway.

 

[justinbrett]

More likely QF will dump EK, their relationship is functionally dead already, leaving room for QR to dump VA.

QF will go where AA goes, and neither are likely to leave oneworld. The US market is the most important to them and they’ve spent decades building their relationship with AA.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the terms here but if I read this correctly, Qantas is incentivizing flyers to choose Virgin Australia for their domestic sector with QR since that sector will earn status credits/points crediting to Virgin Australia. Is that correct or am I missing something here? If so, it seems like one heck of a way to incentivize loyalty for flying QF!

-RooFlyer88

 

[Spacetravel]

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting the terms here but if I read this correctly, Qantas is incentivizing flyers to choose Virgin Australia for their domestic sector with QR since that sector will earn status credits/points crediting to Virgin Australia. Is that correct or am I missing something here? If so, it seems like one heck of a way to incentivize loyalty for flying QF!

-RooFlyer88

Agreed. If I am a QR member clearly id fly VA now. But I think this on purpose QF clearly want to be as far away from QR as possible despite being in the same alliance. QF seemingly want to avoid the situation of paying for status earning on their flight but then the benefits can be used on VA. It still doesn’t appear to make a lot of sense. Usually airlines want to restrict the other direction, earning status on another airline but then pax claiming the benefits for “free” from your airline? QR status can still be used with QF which means you could earn your status flying VA then use it to access QF lounge. This is the situation I think they would want to avoid but maybe they can’t due to OW agreements?

Also wouldn’t a booking be a booking? It seems counterintuitive to give up the whole booking because you don’t want to pay QR a commission for points on your flight.

 

[RooFlyer]

From serfty's post above:
9.1.5 A member of a oneworld Member Airline or Airline Partner loyalty program will not earn that program’s loyalty points or status credits on any Qantas domestic flight where the oneworld Member Airline or Airline Partner permits their program points or status credits to be earned directly or indirectly on any non-Qantas Group flight on the same domestic route (where that domestic flight does not form part of a Qantas marketed international itinerary).

Parsing this because I'm slow ...

A member of a oneworld Member Airline or Airline Partner loyalty program
If I'm a member of QR Privilege Club...

will not earn that program’s loyalty points or status credits on any Qantas domestic flight
I won't earn QR Avios if I fly oneWorld partner Qantas ..

where the oneworld Member Airline or Airline Partner permits their program points or status credits to be earned directly or indirectly on any non-Qantas Group flight on the same domestic route
if QR allows me to earn Avios on any airline (Virgin) that flies on the same domestic route as the Qantas one I'm taking

(where that domestic flight does not form part of a Qantas marketed international itinerary).
except if I'm on a Qantas marketed international itinerary, then QR may award me Avios for my Qantas flight.

Ho hum. The usual Qantas arrogance -
How, pray tell, does Qantas propose to prevent QR awarding me Avios within its program?

And stupidity:
As others have noted, doesn't this incentivise people to fly Virgin and not Qantas?

I suspect QF won't pay QR for the Avios earn.

They may not, but that's not what the clause says. Qantas is purporting to stop QR (for example) awarding its own Avios to its own loyalty customers.

And when QR bails on OW, then why not EK joining in OW....

You are right, QR will be out the door if anyone is and no great loss there anyway.

There is no way Akbar Al Baker would give up the opportunity to torment Qantas. I expect him to offer double Avios for Qantas flights flown

...
I mean fair dinkum. Qantas have staff at Mascot squirreling away thinking up and implementing this sort of stuff??

 

[jrfsp]

More likely QF will dump EK, their relationship is functionally dead already, leaving room for QR to dump VA.

QF will go where AA goes, and neither are likely to leave oneworld. The US market is the most important to them and they’ve spent decades building their relationship with AA.

AFTA push to call time on Qantas and Emirates tie-up - Travel Weekly

AFTA has made a submission to the ACCC, raising concerns that the partnership will do nothing to help abate the rising cost of airfares.

www.travelweekly.com.au

Might be forced