Qantas boosts international capacity, wet lease Finnair aircraft

[SYD]

Report in The Oz this morning about how the Flight Attendants Association of Australia are unhappy with Qantas and its plans for the Finnair services:

There’s a comment at the beginning of this thread suggesting QF wanted a dry lease from the outset but AY pushed the wet lease option.

 

[downtheback]

There’s a comment at the beginning of this thread suggesting QF wanted a dry lease from the outset but AY pushed the wet lease option.

AY will need to transition staff numbers down if they are to lose two aircraft for a long while. This gives them 5 years to slow down hiring to replace people who leave.

There is an aircraft shortage, the union needs to stand down and be happy that QF can get their hands on something quickly

 

[anyonebutqantas]

Report in The Oz this morning about how the Flight Attendants Association of Australia are unhappy with Qantas and its plans for the Finnair services:

Typical racism from the Australian unions who just discovered that the crew are going to be Asian rather than white Finns.

Instead of whinging about pay differentials they might like to reflect on why those supposedly with less generous pay agreements are friendlier and more efficient than the entitled unionised members of the union in Australia.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Does the union represent Finnish flight attendants?

I didn't think so.

What an absolute joke. I despise Qantas management as much as the next person but this is almost on other-world ludicrous.

Finnish good, Asian bad! The executives at both companies must be absolutely howling with laughter in the boardroom at how easy it was to get this over them.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Correct me if my wrong, AY wanted a wet lease and QF agreed to it. Unions expected existing AY staff to crew the flights but instead AY is hiring more staff (irrespective of where from) to crew these flights?

Not that QF can do much about it given that they agreed to the wet lease but I can see why the unions are irritated.

 

[encryptededdy]

Well, the claim is that they were told Finnair cabin crew were facing job losses, whereas now they are actively advertising (to hire) additional crew in Asia to handle these routes.

I would like to think that they would have similar complaints if Finnair was hiring new cabin crew in Finland to crew these flights after the unions were previously told that Finnair cabin crew were facing job losses.

 

[Himeno]

How do they know these ads are to hire additional crew at AYs Asian bases, or to hire replacement crew to cover normal staff attrition?

 

[henrus]

How is this any different from how JQ staff their 787's? Most of the 787 cabin crew is hired by separate cheaper contracts based out of Asia.

 

[ausfox]

Haven’t Qantas staffed aircraft with Kiwi crews on poorer conditions than Australian crews for years?

 

[RooFlyer]

There is an aircraft shortage, the union needs to stand down and be happy that QF can get their hands on something quickly

I don't think the Flight Attendants Association of Australia need to care less what Qantas does, except that it helps their members.

Finnish good, Asian bad! The executives at both companies must be absolutely howling with laughter in the boardroom at how easy it was to get this over them.

The Unions are unhappy because when the wet-lease was first mentioned, they were told that it would be Finnish crews on board. The Unions agreed to this (not sure if they needed to agree or not, but they went along with it uncomplaining). But Qantas has gone back on what the Unions were told, and are getting crew from labour-hire firms. Nothing to do with race or nationality of the hired crew. According to the Unions, Qantas management told them 'fibs' . Who'd a thought?

Again, a quote:

“The lack of transparency around this issue is breathtaking. We were briefed on a commercial-in-confidence basis earlier in the year and the information we were given about saving the jobs of Finnair crew is inconsistent with what’s happening in practice,” Mr Reed said.

Honestly, is anyone surprised?

How is this any different from how JQ staff their 787's? Most of the 787 cabin crew is hired by separate cheaper contracts based out of Asia.

Not about the labour-hire per se. Its about what the Qantas management told the unions, and the unions accepting that in good faith, and then Qantas going off and doing something else. With Qantas' track record, the unions look pretty silly.

 

[downtheback]

But Qantas has gone back on what the Unions were told, and are getting crew from labour-hire firms. Nothing to do with race or nationality of the hired crew. According to the Unions, Qantas management told them 'fibs' . Who'd a thought?

Finnair crews their Asian flights with crews from Asia. This is that same crew being used for the wetlease. Just because the unions misinterpreted what it meant for the crew to be from finnair is their problem.

 

[RooFlyer]

Finnair crews their Asian flights with crews from Asia. This is that same crew being used for the wetlease. Just because the unions misinterpreted what it meant for the crew to be from finnair is their problem.

I don't think they would have 'misinterpreted' the arrangement they were told; for all their faults, I think they know the difference between 'we'll maintain existing crew to maintain existing jobs' and 'we'll get new crew from a labour hire firm'.

I guess fundamentally its a matter of 'existing employees' Vs new hires. Wonder why they wouldn't keep on the existing hires, who would have the experience. New hires are cheaper I guess. Who would you rather have on the plane with you - someone with experience or new trainees?

 

[ausfox]

Maybe my memory falls me but I recall flying on Finnair Singapore to Helsinki late last year and the cabin crew were essentially Asian. I generally prefer the service provided by Asian crews but I thought that I was flying on a Finnish airline. So nothing new for AY.

 

[clifford]

Finnair crews their Asian flights with crews from Asia.

That's not my experience when I flew HEL-BKK in J last May. The crew was decidedly Finnish (and very nice as well).

 

[OATEK]

In the 4 or 5 years before covid Finnair was my go to airline for flights to Europe, and the crews to/from HKG/BKK on at least 10 different flights were mostly Asian in the cabin and Finnish on the flight deck.

 

[Himeno]

I don't think they would have 'misinterpreted' the arrangement they were told; for all their faults, I think they know the difference between 'we'll maintain existing crew to maintain existing jobs' and 'we'll get new crew from a labour hire firm'.

I guess fundamentally its a matter of 'existing employees' Vs new hires. Wonder why they wouldn't keep on the existing hires, who would have the experience. New hires are cheaper I guess. Who would you rather have on the plane with you - someone with experience or new trainees?

And again, there is nothing to suggest that these job advertisements at AY Asian crew bases are for new additional crew (that they wouldn't have needed without this wet lease) instead of normal crew replacement.

It would seem that people are looking for reasons to say "Qantas bad" while ignoring any other reasonable explanation.

 

[RooFlyer]

And again, there is nothing to suggest that these job advertisements at AY Asian crew bases are for new additional crew (that they wouldn't have needed without this wet lease) instead of normal crew replacement.

It would seem that people are looking for reasons to say "Qantas bad" while ignoring any other reasonable explanation.

What/where are these 'job advertisements' you speak of?

 

[Himeno]

What/where are these 'job advertisements' you speak of?

o.o The job ads that the QF cabin crew union is complaining about.

 

[RooFlyer]

o.o The job ads that the QF cabin crew union is complaining about.

OK, sorry. I haven't seen any mention of them in the article I linked to. Mentioned elsewhere?

I reckon they have a few better sources amongst the Finnish labour movement (who it directly affects) rather than scanning the Bangkok Morning Post want ads.

 

[Quickstatus]

The minimum 40hrs rest period between flights is intriguing

As the QF3/4 are only once a day and using the 40hrs rest
The airline can roster the cabin crew with a 2 night layover in JFK instead of 3

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