Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[Melburnian1]

QF9 this evening has returned to PER due to a disruptive passenger... knock on effects coming....

Mark213, many thanks: strangely, this isn't showing on the QF website but media reports state that the B789 got as far north as Shark Bay then turned back. Qantas staff seem to have a lower tolerance of 'bad behaviour' than Asian airlines but this must have been serious given the huge cost of turning back.

The aircraft is B789 VH-ZNC. It appears to still be in Perth but as usual the third party flight tracking sites are not good when it comes to out of course operations (IRROPS to use the industry term).

QF shows QF9D as departing PER in two hours from now, at 1200 'high noon' for LHR projected arrival at 2155 instead of 0505, 1010 minutes late. QF10 is then optimistically shown as departing LHR at 2320 tonight (605 minutes late) with the PER stop on Monday 10 September anticipated as 2235 to (strangely) 2341 for arrival on Tuesday 11 in MEL at 0516 hours instead of 1955 on Monday evening - latter is 561 minutes behind schedule.

 

[mannej]

Can you provide a source to back up your claims as to QF having a lower tolerance for bad behaviour compared to other airlines?

 

[Melburnian1]

Can you provide a source to back up your claims as to QF having a lower tolerance for bad behaviour compared to other airlines?

Personal experience and talking with others.

 

[Melburnian1]

It will be interesting to see if QF95, the Monday 10 September 2140 hours B789 from MEL - LAX is delayed overnight due to QF( on Saturday 8 having to turn back to PER as noted above (and not yet having departed the latter for LHR).

QF's SYD - AKL flights have a pretty good punctuality record but on Sunday 9, QF143, the 0955 hours did not depart until 1122, so expected arrival is 1630, 90 late. A332 VH-EBQ is the taskmaster.

 

[jb747]

Personal experience and talking with others.

You've behaved badly, and been slapped around for your efforts....?

 

[Silvia]

It will be interesting to see if QF95, the Monday 10 September 2140 hours B789 from MEL - LAX is delayed overnight due to QF( on Saturday 8 having to turn back to PER as noted above (and not yet having departed the latter for LHR).

QF's SYD - AKL flights have a pretty good punctuality record but on Sunday 9, QF143, the 0955 hours did not depart until 1122, so expected arrival is 1630, 90 late. A332 VH-EBQ is the taskmaster.

Tragedy! I'm booked on QF95 for monday!!! Funny enough, the app keeps putting it as on time.
I think what they have done before is not run the PER-MEL leg and just run back direct, using the spare aircraft just domestic so that the international one runs on time, I will update on Monday, hopefully we leave on time, otherwise stranded with my wedding dress in LAX!

 

[RooFlyer]

Can you provide a source to back up your claims as to QF having a lower tolerance for bad behaviour compared to other airlines?

Personal experience and talking with others.

I'd back Melburnian1 on this. I've seen some terrible boorish behaviour tolerated by the FAs on TG, SQ and CX ( not to mention EK!) but thankfully, the QF FAs do not, on the whole.

I'm not sure why the original assertion seems to have been taken as a criticism of QF?

 

[Melburnian1]

You've behaved badly, and been slapped around for your efforts....?

No, but I have observed others having done that, and (not on QF) others who in a subjective view ought have been. Being allowed to board while clearly well under the influence comes to mind.

One's role should be to stay inconspicuous. More of a learning experience to observe than draw attention to oneself.

 

[Melburnian1]

I'd back Melburnian1 on this. I've seen some terrible boorish behaviour tolerated by the FAs on TG, SQ and CX ( not to mention EK!) but thankfully, the QF FAs do not, on the whole.

I'm not sure why the original assertion seems to have been taken as a criticism of QF?

Agree. The Asian airlines in particular appear to have a very high threshold before kicking someone off (assuming that can be done). Perhaps it occurs, but I've not been on an Asian airline flight that has returned to base due to someone misbehaving, and nor have they ever had anyone removed while the aircraft was on the ground.

I haven't seen such behaviour on CX (only ever had four single flights with it) but certainly on EY, SQ and TR there's been some. The worst, however was on now defunct Varig when flying down to South America. An overnight flight that to be described as having boisterous passengers would be understating it. Yet in true style of that continent they all clapped when we landed. (Is that occurring today?)

When I once politely drew the attention of an older male QF attendant to a drunk, the staff member was courteous to me (he probably agreed!) but the passenger was allowed to remain on board. Fortunately he didn't give any trouble once we had taken off as he was probably just wanting to sleep.

 

[Melburnian1]

On Sunday 9 Septermber, the overnight delayed QF9 pushed back in PER at 1234, 34 later than the amended expected time.

LHR arrival should be at 2225 tonight local time instead of the usual 0505 hours. B789 VH-ZNC should then quickly turn around and operate QF10, the 1315 hours LHR - PER with a new departure time of what QF says is 2320 hours. This is a little optimistic if the inbound doesn't pick up more time than a 2225 hours arrival: 2340 off blocks may be more realistic.

This means a Monday 10 arrival in PER at around 2235 with departure showing as 2341 (again, on the bright side) and a MEL Tuesday 12 arrival at 0516 hours instead of 1955 the previous evening.

It's easy to miss a few departures but this is likely to be the first time that on its new schedule QF10 has operated as a PER - MEL redeye.

 

[Melburnian1]

Tragedy! I'm booked on QF95 for monday!!! Funny enough, the app keeps putting it as on time.
I think what they have done before is not run the PER-MEL leg and just run back direct, using the spare aircraft just domestic so that the international one runs on time...

Silvia, as of today B789 VH-ZNA has sat in MEL since around 0630 this morning. This may not be the aircraft on which you travel, but it shows that QF still often (perhaps always) has a B789 spare, or, as you say, on MEL - BNE returns.

 

[Silvia]

Silvia, as of today B789 VH-ZNA has sat in MEL since around 0630 this morning. This may not be the aircraft on which you travel, but it shows that QF still often (perhaps always) has a B789 spare, or, as you say, on MEL - BNE returns.

I just got a SMS advising that QF95 on Monday night is cancelled, lucky me!

 

[Melburnian1]

I just got a SMS advising that QF95 on Monday night is cancelled, lucky me!

What do you do? Beg and pray you'll be able to travel on QF93 on Monday morning if you can make that? QF95 does not depart at the "typical" time for OZ east coast - LAX/SFO/DFW departures of the morning or in one case early arvo.

Not all have the luxury of time up their sleeve but my guiding principle for all overseas travel, business or private is to have at least 24 hours up my sleeve.

The QF95 flicking probably means QF96 on Tuesday 11 September ex LAX is cancelled as well.

 

[mannej]

I'd back Melburnian1 on this. I've seen some terrible boorish behaviour tolerated by the FAs on TG, SQ and CX ( not to mention EK!) but thankfully, the QF FAs do not, on the whole.

I'm not sure why the original assertion seems to have been taken as a criticism of QF?

No criticism, just wondering if the statement was first hand or not

 

[Melburnian1]

There is quite an extensive report on the ABC website about the QF9 incident. A 32yo (nationality not supplied) allegedly locked himself in a toilet for an hour and then shouted at others upon emerging. Subsequently he was restrained.

Mental illness? Perhaps not always possible but at face value, odd that his behaviour wasn't detected through being exhibited at the gate prior to boarding.

In these circumstances, QF (and others) have in the past obtained a court order for costs. I assume it's not always recoverable if the person has few or no assets, but perhaps it stays as a debt to be repaid while the person is with us.

With overnight accommodation for passengers and staff, fuel wasted and other costs, would we be looking at north of $150,000?'

The ABC article states that QF has a 'zero tolerance' approach to 'disruptive behaviour' on board. What constitutes the latter could be subjective.

From what the media says, this case is serious, but I wonder if QF staff in arguably less serious cases sometimes make mountains out of molehills while some other airlines ask their staff to 'grin and bear it' (without compromising passenger safety).

 

[calmelb]

There is quite an extensive report on the ABC website about the QF9 incident. A 32yo (nationality not supplied) allegedly locked himself in a toilet for an hour and then shouted at others upon emerging. Subsequently he was restrained.

Mental illness? Perhaps not always possible but at face value, odd that his behaviour wasn't detected through being exhibited at the gate prior to boarding.

In these circumstances, QF (and others) have in the past obtained a court order for costs. I assume it's not always recoverable if the person has few or no assets, but perhaps it stays as a debt to be repaid while the person is with us.

With overnight accommodation for passengers and staff, fuel wasted and other costs, would we be looking at north of $150,000?'

The ABC article states that QF has a 'zero tolerance' approach to 'disruptive behaviour' on board. What constitutes the latter could be subjective.

From what the media says, this case is serious, but I wonder if QF staff in arguably less serious cases sometimes make mountains out of molehills while some other airlines ask their staff to 'grin and bear it' (without compromising passenger safety).

Don’t forget that all EU bound flights have the EU261 delay compensation with presumable €600 per passenger for both the 9 and the 10 (presuming a full flight each way that’s €283,200 or around AU$460,000)

 

[Melburnian1]

Don’t forget that all EU bound flights have the EU261 delay compensation with presumable €600 per passenger for both the 9 and the 10 (presuming a full flight each way that’s €283,200 or around AU$460,000)

calmelb, thanks, but I believe it is only payable for departing flights from UK or Europe if the airline is not based in an EU member state.

So payable for tonight's QF10 but not for last night (i.e. today's) QF9.

As you point out though, say 215 passengers x the compensation in A$ is not insubstantial.

 

[calmelb]

calmelb, thanks, but I believe it is only payable for departing flights from UK or Europe if the airline is not based in an EU member state.

So payable for tonight's QF10 but not for last night (i.e. today's) QF9.

As you point out though, say 215 passengers x the compensation in A$ is not insubstantial.

Yep you are correct. My fault for not reading it well enough!
I wish Australia had laws like EU261 for delays. Would be very useful

 

[Silvia]

I'm pretty pissed off. Booked on QF93 tomorrow, downgraded to Y. I had booked 2 J reward seats on the day they were released which are bloody hard to find. Also 17 hour layover in LAX, that will be fun, and all because of a bloody passenger!

 

[Melburnian1]

I'm pretty pissed off. Booked on QF93 tomorrow, downgraded to Y. I had booked 2 J reward seats on the day they were released which are bloody hard to find. Also 17 hour layover in LAX, that will be fun, and all because of a bloody passenger!

Silvia, there are discussions elsewhere on AFF re claiming compensation (not just 5000 points) for Qantas Frequent Flyer (or other airline FF) points 'lost' due to occasions like this. Be assertive, document every call and email/letter and keep at 'em.

Asking at check in tomorrow for J seats wouldn't go astray. These however are properly matters for chat in other sections of this blog.

Will the airline give you an hotel, transfers and meals tomorrow due to the 17 hours between flights? Again, no harm in asking.