Qantas Delays/Cancellations

[jb747]

With the pilots having a longer rest period than the cabin crew in LAX if my memory of what has been said previously is correct

Tech and cabin crew breaks are uncoupled. They have nothing to do with each other, and cabin crews often change every sector (though I guess from a cabin crew perspective, it's the pilots that change). In this instance, the two are normally the same.

is there a minimum rest period in the City of the Angels that the tech crew must have to then take QF94 (or QF12) back to MEL (or SYD) respectively?

There are defined minimum rest periods both after, and before, any operation, particularly very long ones. It's in CAO 48.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF35 from MEL to SIN (the 1145 hours departure) on Wednesday 23 September did not depart until 1411 this afternoon, meaning a forecast SIN arrival of 2005 instead of 1755.

I would expect QF52, the 2055 hours departure to BNE ex SIN to be at least slightly delayed as a consequence - QF35 does not normally return to MEL overnight, but to BNE - but nothing is showing on QF's publicly available information.

 

[Melburnian1]

jb747, many thanks, although I was not suggesting that the pilot and cabin crew rest periods between flights were linked - I stated that I believed they were longer for the former.

For the benefit of those who find using Google a chore, I hope that this is the correct section of this legislative instrument (applying in this case to an A380 flight across the Pacific such as QF93/94/11/12):

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2015C00048

3 Limitations where the flight crew includes 3 or more pilots
3.1 For the purpose of this subsection a flight crew of 3 or more pilots shall include:
(a) at least 2 pilots licensed to act as pilot in command of the aircraft for the articular operation; or
(b) a complement comprising at least 1 pilot licensed to act as pilot in command and the remaining pilots possessing qualifications approved by CASA for the operation.
3.2 An operator shall ensure that bunks or berths of a type approved by CASA are provided for resting flight crew members.
3.3 The pilot in command shall allocate rest and duty periods appropriate to the flight as planned and any variation of such allocation shall only be made at his or her discretion.
3.4 Before commencing a tour of duty a pilot shall have a rest period of not less than 12 consecutive hours.
3.5 An operator shall not roster a pilot for a tour of duty in excess of:
(a) 16 hours for turbo-jet type aircraft; and
(b) 18 hours in other types of aircraft, except where specifically varied by CASA.
3.6 An operator shall not roster a pilot in excess of a total of 14 hours of active duty in any tour of duty.
3.7 An operator shall not roster a pilot in excess of 8 consecutive hours of active duty in any tour of duty.
3.8 Provided the provisions of section 48.0, subsection 1 are observed, a tour of duty, commenced in accordance with paragraph 3.5 of this subsection, may be extended at the discretion of the pilot in command as follows:
(a) turbo-jet aircraft, 20 hours; and
(b) other types of aircraft, except where specifically varied by CASA, 22 hours.
3.9 Following a tour of duty a pilot shall have a rest period of not less than 12 consecutive hours except that, after operating under the provisions of paragraph 3.12 of this subsection and where a tour of duty exceeded 11 hours or the flight time exceeded 8 hours a pilot shall have a rest period of not less than 24 hours before being rostered for duty under the provisions of subsection 1.
3.10 When a pilot has completed a tour of duty in excess of 18 hours he or she shall:
(a) have a rest period of at least 18 hours before the next tour of duty; or
(b) not exceed 18 hours on following tour of duty.
3.11 Following 50 hours of duty of any nature associated with his or her employment, a pilot shall have a rest period of not less than 24 consecutive hours before commencing a tour of duty.
3.12 Notwithstanding the provision of paragraph 3.2 of this subsection, where a tour of duty is restricted to not more than 14 hours, a seat approved by CASA as capable of providing adequate rest, may be provided for resting flight crew members in lieu of bunks or berths.
3.13 A pilot shall not fly and an operator shall not roster him or her to fly in excess of 100 hours in 30 consecutive days.
3.14 A pilot shall nor fly and an operator shall not roster him or her to fly in excess of 900 hours in 365 consecutive days.
3.15 The operator and the pilot in command shall ensure that crew complements rostered for a tour of duty, enable operations to be conducted within the limits of this Order and, in particular, with the provision of section 48.0, subsection 1

 

[Melburnian1]

The delayed QF93 eventually departed MEL at 1733 hours late this afternoon for a suggested 1430 hours arrival in LAX, seven hours and 20 minutes (i.e. 440 minutes) late. An 'outlier' for FlightStats - Global Flight Tracker, Status Tracking and Airport Information compilation of flights in the last 60 days that were late.

Ignominiously, it will be arriving 35 minutes behind QF96, the B744-operated 1700 hours from MEL that will arrive LAX at 1355 hours, 15 minutes early if all goes to plan. So as Murphy's Law would have it, instead of checking in at say 0730 this morning, a traveller could have chosen the latter flight and checked in at 1500 hours and beaten the earlier checker-innerer by more than half an hour.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The delayed QF93 eventually departed MEL at 1733 hours late this afternoon for a suggested 1430 hours arrival in LAX, seven hours and 20 minutes (i.e. 440 minutes) late.

If we adopted EU type compensation here, but in AUD rather than Euro - that would represent a considerable ~$290K potentially due in compensation (unless this was ATC or weather related).

 

[Melburnian1]

QF11 from SYD to LAX this morning (Saturday 26 September 2015) departed SYD at 1121, 91 minutes late and is predicted by QF to pick up a whole one minute enroute, arriving LAX at 0800 not the timetabled 0630 hours.

In contrast, QF61, the recently introduced flight ex BNE to NRT departed a minute early at 1059. It is very rare for this flight to be late. Overall it has a close to outstanding punctuality record although it has yet to fly through all four seasons in the two hemispheres when at times operating conditions may on occasion be more challenging.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF9 has had many instances of late running in the last couple of years, as this thread shows. On Friday 25 September, QF10 arrived MEL ex DXB and LHR two minutes late at 2057 hours. QF9 then inexplicably departed MEL 64 minutes late at 2359 but arrived DXB on Saturday 26 at 0722, only 17 minutes late. It then departed DXB at 0909, one minute ahead of schedule and hence is forecast to be in LHR 10 minutes early at 1340 today.

Every flight must differ, but despite what a number have said is the difficulty of keeping the schedule, on occasion quite a lot of time is picked up en route or by reducing the DXB stop duration.

 

[Melburnian1]

The late QF11 (SYD- LAX - see above) on Saturday 26 September 2015 lost time en route and arrived LAX exactly two hours late at 0830. In turn, this delayed the departure of QF11 (which originates in BNE and is a B744) from 0855 to 1007 with arrival in 'The Big Apple' at 1814 instead of 1715. QF18 back from JFK to LAX then departed at 1958 instead of 1845 with expected arrival in LAX in about half an hour at a predicted 2215 in lieu of 2140, so if that holds it will have gained time on the schedule.

In turn this may delay the departure of some Australia-bound QF flights from LAX on Saturday night local time (the Monday morning 28 September arrivals in Australia) but often these seem to pick up time across the Pacific so they may not necessarily be late on Monday morning.

 

[Melburnian1]

Thank you all for this thread reaching more than 100000 views. The next most-read airline delay and cancellation thread has only about 10 per cent of the interest of the QF one.

This is testimony to QF's dominant position in the Australian domestic airlines market and the percentage of AFF members and users who use QF but not forgetting the sadly significant number (not quite 'interminable' though) of delays affecting long haul QF flights between Sydney or Melbourne and Dubai, London or Los Angeles, and to a lesser extent delays with QFi's Asian flights. These delays are often of interest to travellers who may be on a subsequent flight formed by the incoming, forecast late arrival, especially where there is limited time to turn around the aircraft (most notably in Asia, but also not as much time in LHR or MEL for DXB and LHR departures compared with the generous 'all day at rest' allowance for the QF flights terminating and then originating in LAX.)

Of any operator between Australia and either London or the USA, QF must have the worst punctuality record> It is a matter of public record that LHR management has expressed its disapproval of QF's far too often late arrivals at London Heathrow.

While lately many QF A330 flights to or from Asia have been punctual (and credit to QF where it is due), the too frequent problems with the QF A388 fleet of 12 in particular and to what appears a lesser extent with the diminished number of B744s means that travellers who want to have the best chance of a punctual arrival in (or ex) LHR or LAX might be well advised to choose a competitor if the timetables, fare and amenities were judged suitable and (for business travellers) corporate travel policies so allowed. DL and UA for instance are hardly high profile in Australia (and someone I know who recently travelled across the Pacific did not even 'think of them', perhaps typical of many who fly the Pacific route) but they are worthy of some consideration as an alternative.

 

[Melburnian1]

VA is worse affected at this stage, but QF is also experiencing problems in BNE this afternoon, presumably not helped by the airport's relative lack of runway infrastructure.

QF1716 from BNE to GLT has been delayed in departing from 1640 to an expected 1740 hours.

 

[drross]

VA is worse affected at this stage, but QF is also experiencing problems in BNE this afternoon, presumably not helped by the airport's relative lack of runway infrastructure.

QF1716 from BNE to GLT has been delayed in departing from 1640 to an expected 1740 hours.

have the thunderstorms made any difference to scheduling?

 

[Melburnian1]

drross, apologies, I mentioned the presence of rain in MCY and OOL when I contributed to the VA delays and cancellations thread, but omitted to mention same in this thread.

I remarked in the other thread that the Bureau said that thunderstorms in BNE were 'possible' although at the time I wrote it, there was no rain according to Bureau radar over BNE airport. Salient point though: bad weather may well affect keeping to timetables. I am (by surface modes) about 1700 kilometres away down in sunny 'Mexico', so given it is so bucolic here today we southerners have no conception of sub-tropical thunderstorms.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF2 is usually punctual in its arrival at or very close to 0510 hours in SYD at this time of year. However this is not true for the Monday 28 September arrival in SYD. The flight left LHR two minutes late on Saturday night at 2127, arriving in DXB 18 late at 0748 on Sunday. However it spent until 1102 there, departing 107 minutes late and as a result should now arrive in SYD at 0645. Thankfully this should not delay any other A388 operated QF flights.

 

[drross]

drross, apologies, I mentioned the presence of rain in MCY and OOL when I contributed to the VA delays and cancellations thread, but omitted to mention same in this thread.

I remarked in the other thread that the Bureau said that thunderstorms in BNE were 'possible' although at the time I wrote it, there was no rain according to Bureau radar over BNE airport. Salient point though: bad weather may well affect keeping to timetables. I am (by surface modes) about 1700 kilometres away down in sunny 'Mexico', so given it is so bucolic here today we southerners have no conception of sub-tropical thunderstorms.

No dramas. big storm this afternoon.....lots and lots of hail - looks like the snow fields of 'Mexico"

 

[Melburnian1]

The Saturday evening (26 September 2015) QF9 from MEL (scheduled departure 2255 hours) departed 21 minutes late at 2316 but then diverted to MCT where it spent from 0742 local time to 1058 before arriving DXB at 1211, five hours and six minutes behind time. It then departed DXB at 1344 for an 1805 hours arrival in LHR, four hours and 15 minutes late. My computer is 'slow' so I have not been able to look up Flightradar24.com - Live flight tracker! to establish a possible reason. The QANTAS Source | is silent as it has yet to post anything about the diversion. There is no indication on meteorological sites that today's DXB weather is anything but 'clear', although that is irrelevant to a day ago. As previously noted by quite a few AFFers, sandstorms, fog and runway congestion can be some of the challenges that DXB airport faces. Many of us may struggle to associate 'fog' with 'desert' but to not do so is apparently incorrect.

It was not long ago that another QF A388 flight diverted to BAH. If memory serves me correctly, a QF A388 has previously made an unscheduled stop in MCT but as one might expect it is a rare event.

The Sunday evening 2125 hours QF2 back to DXB, and on to SYD was unaffected by the late QF9 arrival with QF2 departing not long ago only nine minutes late.

 

[jb747]

Taf omdb 272302z 2800/2906 12005kt 7000 nsc prob30 2800/2805 0100 fg
vv/// becmg 2807/2809 32013kt becmg 2816/2818 08005kt
prob30 2901/2904 4000 hz=

 

[OATEK]

Taf omdb 272302z 2800/2906 12005kt 7000 nsc prob30 2800/2805 0100 fg
vv/// becmg 2807/2809 32013kt becmg 2816/2818 08005kt
prob30 2901/2904 4000 hz=

Guessing for the uninitiated it was weather related?

 

[jb747]

Many of us may struggle to associate 'fog' with 'desert' but to not do so is apparently incorrect.

Advection fog is fog produced when air that is warmer and more moist than the ground surface moves over the ground surface. The term advection means a horizontal movement of air. Unlike radiation fog, advection fog can occur even when it is windy.

Radiation fog is formed by the cooling of land after sunset by thermal radiation in calm conditions with clear sky. The cool ground produces condensation in the nearby air by heat conduction. In perfect calm the fog layer can be less than a meter deep but turbulence can promote a thicker layer

What is fog? - Met Office

 

[Melburnian1]

Thank you jb747 for the explanation.

For the second day in a row, QF9 has deviated to MCT. On Sunday 27 September, it departed MEL seven minutes late at 0705 and arrived at MCT on Monday 28 September (today) at 0736, departing at 0911 for the short hop in aviation sector lengths to arrive in DXB at 1011, only 20 minutes or so ago.

QF predicts departure from DXB at 1130 which may be a tad optimistic with arrival in LHR two hours and 10 minutes late at 1600 hours local time (0100 AEST on Tuesday 29 September), not too bad in the circumstances.

With the southeast bound QF2 (LHR - DXB - SYD) due in the Middle East at a similar time to QF9, it is surprising that if one flight (QF9) has been affected two days in a row, QF2 has not been.

Tiny these additional costs for QF may be in terms of its multi billion dollar revenues and hundreds of million or more in current annual profits, but they are presumably unbudgeted.

There are some delays affecting other airlines in and out of DXB but this is not unknown. I do not know if other airlines' flights were similarly diverted away from DXB at 0730 local time this morning, or yesterday.

 

[defurax]

With the southeast bound QF2 (LHR - DXB - SYD) due in the Middle East at a similar time to QF9, it is surprising that if one flight (QF9) has been affected two days in a row, QF2 has not been.

I'm sure JB747 will have the correct answer, but I can only guess it has to do with extra fuel and alternate airport.