Qantas FF announcement 20 June - "biggest overhaul" in program history

[DC3]

The first rule of the Points Club is: You do not talk about the Points Club. The second rule of the Points Club is: You do not talk about the Points Club.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Nice post. As for your final comment (10/10 for hype), I'm not sure I'd agree. For most QFF members the most significant relevant change is reduced costs for economy awards, which I think is a big deal (even if not so much for many AFFers).

What isn't disclosed in that piece is how lowering award flight costs can increase paid ticket prices.
It's like - here's some free cash. By the way, you'll pay for that free cash through increased taxes.

The additional award inventory has to come from somewhere..... and it will (most likely) come from deep discount economy buckets.

That means the overall average cost of a revenue ticket will increase!

But let's not ruin Qantas's fanfare moment with boring details

 

[p--and--t]

What isn't disclosed in that piece is how lowering award flight costs can increase paid ticket prices.
It's like - here's some free cash. By the way, you'll pay for that free cash through increased taxes.

The additional award inventory has to come from somewhere..... and it will (most likely) come from deep discount economy buckets.

That means the overall average cost of a revenue ticket will increase!

But let's not ruin Qantas's fanfare moment with boring details

...or an optimist might say perhaps travel with a few less empty seats and reduce the growing liability sheet in the loyalty scheme seeing their load factors are not in the high nineties.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

...or an optimist might say perhaps travel with a few less empty seats and reduce the growing liability sheet in the loyalty scheme seeing their load factors are not in the high nineties.

Yeah, that's part of it too. I mean the more points which are redeemed the more QF Loyalty can realise the revenue and the airline gets some seat revenue.

Airline loyalty is complex!

 

[RooFlyer]

The first rule of the Points Club is: You do not talk about the Points Club. The second rule of the Points Club is: You do not talk about the Points Club.

That's certainly the approach Qantas is taking.

 

[CaptJCool]

What isn't disclosed in that piece is how lowering award flight costs can increase paid ticket prices.
It's like - here's some free cash. By the way, you'll pay for that free cash through increased taxes.

The additional award inventory has to come from somewhere..... and it will (most likely) come from deep discount economy buckets.

That means the overall average cost of a revenue ticket will increase!

But let's not ruin Qantas's fanfare moment with boring details

Or demand is throttled as .people don’t have the extra points, so don’t book, or.

Pay through the nose for top-up Points.

The two annoyances of the process for mine is the loyalty cycle.

The banking structure of 100,000 points is a non-loyalty card churn. I know 2 who do this and essentially the view was earn and immediately cancel the cards. And buy fully flexible Y and use the points to upgrade to J - cheaper than outright putchase of J even on the discount J sales

If one Burns points on J classic rewards, there’s no earn so there’s loss of status. How does one burn while still actively earning other than points plus pay on deep discount Y Red-e deals?

In the event, you could join QF Club with pricey membership fees (noting the recent 40% discount offer) and its “narrow QF code access policy” which isn’t helpful on long haul even on partner airlines...

Reminds me of a casino where Blackjack is paid out at odds of 3/2. House Banker always wins...


PS
Did a calc on the 1200 SC for $2,500 (DPS NOU)
75,000 SC = $156,250. not that most folk have the block of time nor $ to do the 60 return flights nor are their businesses willing to pay for these.

 

[downgraded]

As I have status and points this doesn’t affect me but I do understand and agree with the Points Club concept.

Qantas has created a currency which everyone can earn regardless of status but has made it harder for those without status to spend on flights. That disparity is inherently unfair.

Is it? You don't earn it on flights, you don't spend it on flights. Don't say I agree with that but it's a bit flawed to confuse the name of a programme that's got less to do with flying than ever with an expectation of award flights.

 

[cove]

RichardMel the availability tonight was still painful on QF. Getting home from MEL in July I am going MEL-SYD-PER and yes I picked up an A330 business class. Now the site is experiencing difficulties. The line of nothing available in Classic Rewards was almost 2 pages long.

 

[helenma]

I am v confused. I tend to be confused about all Qantas offerings now. I have no idea anymore what Amex offer us on a grocery purchase or a flight or a case of wine. Totally confused. We only spend via Qantas (i.e ignore Velocity / Flybuys). So have stuck with purchases via Amex on Qantas affliated things. But trying to drill down into what we get back is impossible! So so hard to figure out, so just go with flow ( put it on Amex etc) but is it worth it?

 

[QF WP]

Post from LinkedIn by AJ:



He doesn’t understand that we (whether informed pax or in the media) care less about the plane on which we fly and more about the points and status that we have accumulated. It’s a personal thing Alan. I can see my points and status every time I log in. To the vast majority, an Economy seat is an Economy seat, regardless of the type of plane (ignoring the fact that the knowledgeable FF knows the exit rows are better and are willing to pay for it).

Alan, you may have engaged the General travelling public who search for that Award Seat in whY, but you’ve disengaged the loyal status based flyers who have a choice of booking airlines.

I’ve got a little over 900 SC’s to Lifetime Gold, half of which I will get from future DSC offers. Then it’s off to greener pastures, with the lifetime ability to access a QF Lounge when I need to fly QF (or AA Admirals Club in USA). Mark Ross Smith’s article is spot on. Can't wait to see if VA come out with better program changes.

 

[Max Samuels]

I think you are completely off point on this, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...

Likewise - Thank god it is still a free country! - and if/when I am successful with the class action, you can post your thanks in this thread

I do love these keyboard-warrior passionate debates! Everyone so passionate and confident, in what is literally a storm in a teacup!

Surely we can all agree on what someone posted a few days ago.... underpinning any loyalty program needs to exist a functioning airline business - and that business needs to be funded by paying passengers. Loyalty is icing on the cake, so to speak.....

 

[QF WP]

What isn't disclosed in that piece is how lowering award flight costs can increase paid ticket prices.
It's like - here's some free cash. By the way, you'll pay for that free cash through increased taxes.

The additional award inventory has to come from somewhere..... and it will (most likely) come from deep discount economy buckets.

That means the overall average cost of a revenue ticket will increase!

But let's not ruin Qantas's fanfare moment with boring details

Your final comment should have been: "Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story". Completely agree that the revenue will increase to Qantas - but the average Joe and Jane won't understand. They just want their Award seat. Similar if QF are going to release additional Premium Economy, Business or First seats. Higher revenue there as well (and a significant increase versus Economy). My QF shares are looking good.

 

[davidjm2389]

Have I missed Qantas specifying the commencement date of the release of extra award seats and decreasing the carrier charges and taxes?
Is it immediate and happening now?

 

[CaptJCool]

Have I missed Qantas specifying the commencement date of the release of extra award seats and decreasing the carrier charges and taxes?
Is it immediate and happening now?

There’s a little tool on here where you can plug in your origin And destination and it will tell you the before and after points and $ and the date from which the charges apply

Dream closer while we wait for the world to open

Classic Flight Reward seat availability will be increased by up to 50% to the most popular destinations in Australia for the rest of the year

frequentflyer.qantas.com

 

[davidjm2389]

Great tool. So business award flight fees go down on September 18 when the points required go up.
Is this the same date for partner award flight fees coming down?
Does Qantas say anywhere when they start releasing more award seats in economy and premium?
Does this apply to releasing more partner award seats also?

 

[dajop]

Have given all these changes some thought. LTG here, and not supporting any children, so probably fit the profile of one who tends to premium cabin awards. Due to inability to get awards in business cabin around the days I want to travel on the routes I want to travel, I've only done one medium haul J award* in last 10 years using QFF points (and that was on EK) . During the same period I've done a whole stack of J awards on SQ and a good number of economy awards using QFF points. I think the savings of fuel surcharge and economy points will definitely offset the increase in points for business class awards. So don't really see this as much of a devaluation, just a rebalancing. Although if availability had been better, might have been different story.

 

[Kangol]

"Based on their feedback" - how many members want to disproportionately pay more points and less taxes for F/J award tickets?
This makes redemption of these types of awards harder for a majority of people.

A company wanting to make more profit is understandable, being dishonest and removing transparency is not.

 

[QF WP]

They base their feedback on the much larger number of contacts from lower status members, who have a stack of points built up in their accounts, that can't find a seat on the flights they want and have complained via CS/Facebook/Twitter etc. So a reverse Pareto principle at play here (80/20, not 20/80).

This enhancement is all about selling it to the masses. They aren't worried about us high status FF's (who may also have a large stack of points). QF think that we (the elite members) are already engaged. However, for those of us that have the ability to control our own destiny, we'll be making decisions that counter what they think. However that will take time for QF to realise that we have made decisions to look at other airlines. We are generally the more profitable (buying the higher fares, or in premium cabins) and the revenue (and therefore profit) comes from the front half of the plane, not the back half.

 

[Vic]

Clearly LTP is a response to the clamouring for it from the folks like us.. so they've delivered... but made it nigh on impossible for most punters.

It's a bit like dreaming about getting a date with the hottest girl at school, and you're the school nerd (OK I was ).. she's there.. you can see her... you might even have the courage to ask her out.. but be certain.. you're not having a milkshake with her at the diner anytime soon (or maybe when you're both 98!)

Nice analogy. I definitely wanted a date with the hottest girl/s in school. Now, some years later, at the school reunions they all tell about how they had a crush on me...
Not sure what that means about me getting lifetime platinum...

 

[dajop]

"Based on their feedback" - how many members want to disproportionately pay more points and less taxes for F/J award tickets?
This makes redemption of these types of awards harder for a majority of people.

I am betting a lot of surveys have asked questions to the effect "Would you pay more points if more seats were available?" , and the overwhelming feedback would have been yes.

I'm generally Ok if they charge slightly more points, and provide more availability of premium awards, but not happy if that just means more get released twelve months in advance, it would be better for them to be drip fed over the year, if they want me to "engage" more with the program.