Qantas fleet decisions

[JohnK]

It does say till 7 October. This suggests that one of the 333's may be out of service, or being used elsewhere.

Yes I did see the dates but I have also noticed recently of what can happen when someone at QF thinks a totally moronic decision/idea is successful.

 

[NM]

Below is a list of all the routes Qantas is AXING the skybeds

I assume from the SHOUT that you are not impressed by this move.

Do you have a suggestion as to how QF could better utilise their limited supply of A330-300 aircraft that are fitted with Skybeds? Or suggest some other plan for QF to continue to operate those routes with Skybeds in a manner that is best for Qantas overall?

 

[garyjohn951]

Yes, let Jetstar wait in line for planes like the rest of the qantas group do.
Or reduce the price of the business class ticket for lesser quality seats. Remember the old seats they get more seats per plane than the new skybeds, so they are profiteering as well.

 

[NM]

Yes, let Jetstar wait in line for planes like the rest of the qantas group do.
Or reduce the price of the business class ticket for lesser quality seats. Remember the old seats they get more seats per plane than the new skybeds, so they are profiteering as well.

But Jetstar are getting the A330-200 aircraft which are unable to take the Skybeds due to floor strength limitations. The only QF aircraft that could technically be fitted with Skybeds and don't already have them are the 747-300s. Any other aircraft in the fleet would require major cost and time out of action to be upgraded for Skybed installation.

The problem will be solved with 787 deliveries commence.

Fares are based on what the market will bare (I guess that is what's known as a bear market??) and what the competion is offering.

 

[garyjohn951]

Qantas Annual Report - received this week.

Jetstar will receive the FIRST 12 787's in 2008 and Qantas will start receiving 787 until MIDDLE 2009.

Now if that is NOT favouring Jetstar, pull the other leg.

 

[maninblack]

I think that it is perfectly reasonable that PER-SIN should get 763's as it is a five hour daytime flight. Flights to Japan are a different story though.

The real problem comes back to my point in the original post that QF made some odd fleet decisions and now we consumers are paying the price in more ways than one. QF charging the same for a flight on a 744/A330-300 as on a 763 is a ripoff to consumers. When I go to the airport I pay more if I want a BMW rather than a Fairlane.

Re the 743's one could argue that as these planes were actually refurbed in about 2003/4 and were expected to fly until 2010 skybeds may have been a good idea, afterall these old darlings can cover almost any route other than east coast to LAX or Asia-LHR. Eg AKL-LAX, MEL/SYD/PER-HKG/NRT/SIN/BKK. This would have given them way more flexibility. By the way 763's can also take a skybed upgrade but I am sure that this was never in the planning. Again the newer 763's if not a skybed could have at least got an upgrade as they will be in service beyond 2010 also and I think that they are going to be looking pretty atrocious inside by then.

 

[NM]

Qantas Annual Report - received this week.

Jetstar will receive the FIRST 12 787's in 2008 and Qantas will start receiving 787 until MIDDLE 2009.

Now if that is NOT favouring Jetstar, pull the other leg.

But just how is that going to affect QF's ability to provide Skybeds on the routes quotes above in 2006, which is what the quote in the earlier post was about? I still don't see that QF has any choice but to operate non-Skybed aircraft (i.e. 767-300) on international routes at this time.

The intention to deliver the first dozen 787s to Jetstar tells us that the 763 is going to remain on QF international routes for some time, or those routes are going to see Orange 787s. Whether this is good or bad is a different issue, and it has nothing to do with the recent A333/763 route changes resulting in the removal of Skybeds from routes like BNE-HKG, PER-HKG, PER-NRT, and some SYD-HKG, which is what the quoted information was about.

 

[garyjohn951]

Simple, give Jetstar the 763's. Let them have the old planes.
If Jetstar was a stand alone airline it would have to to the nmarket place for planes. Not be hand fed new planes by its money supply parent.

 

[NM]

Simple, give Jetstar the 763's. Let them have the old planes.
If Jetstar was a stand alone airline it would have to to the nmarket place for planes. Not be hand fed new planes by its money supply parent.

But I will ask again, just how will that going allow QF to operate Skybeds on the routes quoted previously in this thread?

You seem to keep harping back to the fact that Jetstar is getting the 787 before QF mainline. I don't see how the choice of aircraft for Jetstar (either the A330-200 now or the 787 in 2008) has any impact on the decision to swap some A330-300 and 767-300 service in September and October 2006. In my view, these are totally unrelated decisions.

So I ask again, what could QF do now (ie in September/October 2006) to continue to operate Skybeds on the routes quoted earlier in this thread as having Skybeds removed?

Giving Jetstar International a fleet of 767-300s is not going to make any difference, except that QF may then be forced to use 2x2x2 millennium seats on A330-200 for HKG or NRT flights rather than 1x2x2 Dreamtime configured 767-300 aircraft. Perhaps they could install Dreamtimes in 2x2x2 config on A330-200s, but that still does not get Skybeds back onto those routes.

 

[garyjohn951]

Yes, I don't have answer to the short term but this not a short term decision, if Qantas are not getting new planes until 2009. This change to 763's is long term.

 

[thadocta]

Yes, I don't have answer to the short term but this not a short term decision, if Qantas are not getting new planes until 2009. This change to 763's is long term.

Don't forget the arrival of the A380, which will allow some 744's (with Skybed) to cascade onto services currently operated by A330-300's. Those A330-300's will then cascade onto services currently operated by B767-300's.

Also, the two A330-200's QF is receiving from Airbus as part of the compensation for the late delivery of the A380 will be delivered with the strengthend floors, and will be equipped with Skybed.

Dave

 

[NM]

Yes, I don't have answer to the short term but this not a short term decision, if Qantas are not getting new planes until 2009. This change to 763's is long term.

indeed with the first 12 of the 787s going to Jetstar, they QF 763s can be expected to remain operational on QF international routes for about 12 months longer than they would otherwise have been.

Also note that the introduction of the A380 into QF service will free up some 744s for other routes, with the possible re-introduction of the bigger birds on some HKG and SIN routes, complete with Skybeds.

The delays to the A380 are not helping QF's fleet plans. They were originally expecting the A380 deliveries before the end of 2006, but alas we all kow how wrong that delivery scheduled has proven to be.

 

[garyjohn951]

I wouldn't be holding my breath on the A380's arrving on time. The Qantas Annual report says late 2007. Latest out of europe on AAP is that all orders will be dealyed a further 6 months. Wouldn't surprise me there will not be further delays after that. That would mean 1st/2nd qr 2008 at earliest.

 

[NM]

I wouldn't be holding my breath on the A380's arriving on time. The Qantas Annual report says late 2007. Latest out of europe on AAP is that all orders will be dealyed a further 6 months. Wouldn't surprise me there will not be further delays after that. That would mean 1st/2nd qr 2008 at earliest.

yes, first quarter of 2008 is the present ETA for the first QF A380. It seems SQ will be getting their first 4 before the end of 2007, making for some very unpleasant thoughts and gestures aimed towards both SQ and Airbus.

But they should get the A380 before any 787s are delivers. The 787 is still a paper plane.

 

[JohnK]

I think that it is perfectly reasonable that PER-SIN should get 763's as it is a five hour daytime flight.

And there are some that may disagree with you.

QF charging the same for a flight on a 744/A330-300 as on a 763 is a ripoff to consumers. When I go to the airport I pay more if I want a BMW rather than a Fairlane.

Don't give the QF bean counters any more ideas. We are paying too much as it is for economy seats.

 

[jakeseven7]

indeed with the first 12 of the 787s going to Jetstar, they QF 763s can be expected to remain operational on QF international routes for about 12 months longer than they would otherwise have been.

Also note that the introduction of the A380 into QF service will free up some 744s for other routes, with the possible re-introduction of the bigger birds on some HKG and SIN routes, complete with Skybeds.

Does that mean that as 787's are delivered to JQ the A330s will transfer back to QF as well?

I wonder if QF will get another A330 out of Airbus for another 6 months delay?

 

[serfty]

... Don't give the QF bean counters any more ideas. We are paying too much as it is for economy seats.

Don't worry about that John ... look what's happeing trans Tasman. More and more the flights between the South-East Isles and mainland Oz are becoming domestic flight services.

 

[maninblack]

yes, first quarter of 2008 is the present ETA for the first QF A380. It seems SQ will be getting their first 4 before the end of 2007, making for some very unpleasant thoughts and gestures aimed towards both SQ and Airbus.

But they should get the A380 before any 787s are delivers. The 787 is still a paper plane.

Right, and as it is just a paper plane we can bet that it will be at least a year behind projected delivery too. We are being told JQ will be getting 787's in late 2008, err give me a break, this plane hasn't even been built yet and JQ are not the launch customer. If they even have one 787 before the end of 2008 I will eat my...

Perhaps Qantas should be out in the market looking to lease or buy a few S/H 744's...in fact I am sure they are already. As for all of those initial 787's going to JQ, don't bet on it, I am sure that decision is under review too. QF has to protect it's bread and butter which is it's mainline op. JQ international is still a totally unproven product.

 

[NM]

Does that mean that as 787's are delivered to JQ the A330s will transfer back to QF as well?

JQ will not be keeping the A330s once they have sufficient 787s. Just what QF does with the A330s at that time is yet to be determined. But I would not be surprised if they use them on domestic and even trans-Tasman routes back in QF colours.

I wonder if QF will get another A330 out of Airbus for another 6 months delay?

Anything is possible. I certainly expect QF to be very upset at the delay and especially the headstart handed to SQ :evil: .

 

[Yada Yada]

Anything is possible. I certainly expect QF to be very upset at the delay and especially the headstart handed to SQ :evil: .

I wonder if they are kicking themselves for not having placed their A380 order earlier. Or perhaps for ordering at all!

Given the fleet trouble they have at present, I'd be very surprised if they are not already scouring the globe for wide-body equipment that could be leased to help ease the problems.