Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[thewinchester]

The information for passengers thread has been updated to reflect all the new information.

I'm continuing to keep that thread as up to date as possible as new information comes to hand.

On that note, after what has been a crazy 34 hours in Australia's aviation history - I am going to bed. Good night.

 

[QF WP]

Thank god calm heads prevailed and it's over. Now we can return to normal programming. Wonder what positive spin the unions try to make put of the decision when it's clear they have lost.

I'll bet AJ had a good nights sleep

 

[Rebekkap]

Gillard has said that there was no need fo4r the government to get involved until now. Seems like this had to be done to get their attention.

Or that no-one had asked the government to get involved before now - maybe they should have tried asking?

 

[elbarto]

Or that no-one had asked the government to get involved before now - maybe they should have tried asking?

Apparently AJ called her on Saturday morning but she didn't call back.


Sent from my iPad using Aust Freq Fly app

 

[ric_melb]

Tony Sheldon of the TWU is saying on ABC that the decision by Fair Work is a slap in the face for Qantas.
Strange, I would have thought the decision was exactly what Qantas, and for that matter the travelling public, wanted.

 

[Rebekkap]

Apparently AJ called her on Saturday morning but she didn't call back.

AJ just corrected that on radio, saying the story was wrong.

 

[clifford]

You were probably always on FJ as I don't believe QF fly their own metal to NAN anymore. In which case, you would have been unaffected by the grounding as tickets booked on codeshare flights are unaffected.

Well not quite, as it was a Qantas ticket and there were 2 domestic sectors on it, which Qantas will never get out of me again. Yes, the SYD-NAN sector was of course on FJ.

Qantas has really shot itself in the foot with this one. I'm still getting to NAN on my original schedule (albeit flying Y instead of J), saving $500, and best of all, depriving Qantas of this revenue.

While Joyce remains at the helm I will book away from Qantas from now on. I'll be QF Gold till September 2013 with my current paid bookings, so why throw more good money after bad?

 

[Cynicor]

So in theory my (rebooked) current 0800 Tuesday flight should be taking off so I need to cancel my flexi virgin fare. Just tried and found there was a $160 cancellation fee. I should have read the conditions but was booling on my mobile, and it was late. If I call do you think they might give a full refund or should I just try to take it up with qantas and insurance?

 

[anat0l]

Tony Sheldon of the TWU is saying on ABC that the decision by Fair Work is a slap in the face for Qantas.
Strange, I would have thought the decision was exactly what Qantas, and for that matter the travelling public, wanted.

It really surprises me how someone can separate union workers from the company when they work for the company, are paid by the company, and, at least when times are "good", like to say they are part of the company.

Can't have it both ways...

(Yes I know there is some corruption of the subtle legal mumbo-jumbo there; no need to point that out...)



----------
This anat0l content, if it must be known,
Was sent via Aust Freq Fly app, but not from an iPhone.

 

[MarkD]

So in theory my (rebooked) current 0800 Tuesday flight should be taking off so I need to cancel my flexi virgin fare. Just tried and found there was a $160 cancellation fee. I should have read the conditions but was booling on my mobile, and it was late. If I call do you think they might give a full refund or should I just try to take it up with qantas and insurance?

With all due respect Cynicor, you must be kidding, Why dont you just use the Virgin ticket. QF have let you down, you obviously need to be somewhere, so bought another ticket, yet now, you want to dump Virgin, and go back to the one that let you down in the first place. Sheesh. Get QANTAS to sort it out, its not your problem, they need to pay for your out of pocket expenses. Technically they are not flying again yet, and its under 24 hrs until departure. Bugger them!!!

 

[anat0l]

Thank god calm heads prevailed and it's over. Now we can return to normal programming. Wonder what positive spin the unions try to make put of the decision when it's clear they have lost.

I'll bet AJ had a good nights sleep

Calm heads nothing!

The effort it took to get to this point and the fact that a resolution required locking a bunch of people in a room for about two days then to be deliberated on a federal committee with legal bindings.....calm is not the word I'd use for anyone right now.

Also, normal programming would probably be a tad generous - unless your definition of normal means of the last few weeks of what objectively I believe is not normal operation at all....


In any case, naive question perhaps - the resolution said "no industrial action"....lazy webs I know but can someone elaborate? This means that the company can't lock out workers and the workers can't strike/go-slow/do other weird things? How long is the "ceasefire" effective for?

Sorry if this has been answered above - reading on mobile here...



----------
This anat0l content, if it must be known,
Was sent via Aust Freq Fly app, but not from an iPhone.

 

[simongr]

I haven't even the full text of the ruling (if there is such a thing) but I hope this terminates all action by both parties and a new EBA or equivalent is signed forthwith - that should give us certainty for the next three years at least that no industrial disputes will disrupt our travel.

It will then by the responsibility of AJ and the cabin crew to demonstrate that QF are a carrier worth travelling with.

Now at least they can focus on the big things like priority boarding finally!

 

[oldenglishwhitemga]

We had to do SOMETHING! QANTAS

"We were dying a slow death. We had to do something drastic," Joyce told Sky News on Sunday.

ahah! a stunt! This'll show'em!

 

[Cynicor]

With all due respect Cynicor, you must be kidding, Why dont you just use the Virgin ticket. QF have let you down, you obviously need to be somewhere, so bought another ticket, yet now, you want to dump Virgin, and go back to the one that let you down in the first place. Sheesh. Get QANTAS to sort it out, its not your problem, they need to pay for your out of pocket expenses. Technically they are not flying again yet, and its under 24 hrs until departure. Bugger them!!!

Thanks for the reply. In my line of work, I find issues should just be worked around with a calm head rather than invoking emotion, so I find it hard to be angry at the unions or qantas. All that has happened to me is that I am stuck in a $700+/night suite at the Sofitel (on special, of course) and dinking free wine. In the meantime the qantas girl was very helpful in rebooking me for Tuesday, while the current virgin ticket is for Wednesday. My girlfriend needs to be back in Perth ASAP and so the Tuesday qantas flight is my preferred option.

In the end, I could exclaim that I "will never fly qantas again" but they have been ok up until now and I will fly them again, even if I didn't want to.

 

[Meggsy]

In any case, naive question perhaps - the resolution said "no industrial action"....lazy webs I know but can someone elaborate? This means that the company can't lock out workers and the workers can't strike/go-slow/do other weird things? How long is the "ceasefire" effective for?

Happy to stand corrected by those more knowledgeable. My understanding is that the parties have 21 days in which to reach a final resolution with no further industrial action. If this is not achieved then the umpire (FWA) will decide the final outcome and make a determination on new pay rates, conditions, etc. Effectively the matter is now over and one can only say that AJ has had a win here no matter what spin the unions try to put on it.

 

[thewinchester]

Just an update from the QF website, posted at 0810hrs AEDST this morning:

Following the termination of all industrial action by Fair Work Australia, Qantas will resume scheduled services from mid-afternoon on Monday 31 October. This is subject to approval from the regulator.

I feel really sorry for the Operations guys at QF, as they're the ones who've no doubt been working like Trojans overnight to move all the jigsaw pieces into place for this to start happening. Hope AJ and the senior execs. still in Australia have pitched in for Tea Lady duties to keep those guys fed and watered while putting it together.

 

[thewinchester]

I haven't even the full text of the ruling (if there is such a thing)<snip>

There is, and these have been published on the FWA website within the last couple of hours:

Full bench decision: [2011] FWAFB 7444
Orders: PR516214

 

[Limewood]

While I'm not a fan of Al or the unions behaviour over past months, IMO he & Q have won this battle to date hands down, its a real pity the Gillard Gov. did not step in long ago to avoid all this turmoil. I'm flying with Q on a few flights in the next few weeks and will continue to support them with my business.

 

[Timba-Jet]

Tony Sheldon of the TWU is saying on ABC that the decision by Fair Work is a slap in the face for Qantas.
Strange, I would have thought the decision was exactly what Qantas, and for that matter the travelling public, wanted.

I think this was referring to FWA criticism of the impact of the industrial action to the wider economy and community, in particular the action by Qantas to ground all flights.

Reading between the lines, aka the Qantas reaction was out of proportion to the preceding union strikes.

On the matter of Abbott. Boy is he quick to bad mouth Gillard before he checks his facts. Now that AJ will clarify he did not make direct contact with Gillard, hope Abbot gets roasted by the media.
Better still FWA should ban him from contributing to this dispute as he has been no use at all.

 

[Alanslegal]

While I'm not a fan of Al or the unions behaviour over past months, IMO he & Q have won this battle to date hands down, its a real pity the Gillard Gov. did not step in long ago to avoid all this turmoil.

But Gillard is also right to say, that Qantas could have been the applicants to the FWA in the first instance (but they didn't and proceeded with groundings). Why should governments intervene in work disputes when there are already avenues of remedies/appeals per legislation. If the legislation is broken, then governments as their legislature function should remedy erronous law. In this case, imo the legislation has worked regardless of what is being spun by the current and ex-Liberal party ministers.

All I can say is that the last 48 hours has been excellent match-playing by Joyce and the Qantas board. They deliberately grounded the planes without warning, causing a stir that 1) its the unions fault 2) its the Labor parties fault and 3) none of their fault. As I just said above, why didn't Qantas go straight to the FWA and make the exact application the government was forced to make?

In any instance, Qantas' competitors have reacted by increasing flights, capacity, updates to their websites, increased staff to deal with the Qantas groundings ...... and then wham,bam Qantas reinstates flights and pulls the pin on their competitors. Very nice move.