Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[simongr]

Well here it is from your link, and as I said there is no overt statement to go out and buy with other airlines. It is hypothetical advice only.

"If I was a person considering travel over the period up until Christmas I'd probably be looking at airlines other than Qantas.
"If I was a passenger I wouldn't be purchasing a ticket with them at this stage."

That is pure semantics medead - he clearly says that if he was flying he wouldn't fly Qantas.

 

[yohy?!]

Pyrrhic victory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes QF is flying again today but at what cost?

Something like 80,000 people stranded worldwide with a good portion of them blaming management and vowing never to fly QF again.

Damaging press and vitriolic public sentiment that is sure to depress those already collapsed forward bookings further.

I think this is a watershed moment in QF's history - finally shedding the 'Spirit of Australia' in preparation for the move the Asia and expansion of JQ.

I don't know that the unions would have really gotten what they wanted but I think the Board could have handled this a whole lot better without killing the red roo to beat them.

 

[simongr]

I guess we will have a number of divided opinions - I actually think this has enhanced my QF loyalty despite the disruptions to my team this week. I think the Board said to the unions you can't tell us how to run the airline. Hopefully this will also send a broader message to the Australian work force that we might think things are ok because of the resources boom but that could easily disappear and we shouldn't be making outrageous demands.

I also wonder if the people complaining about "the move to Asia" (not sure how you can fly SYD-MEL from an Asian base) also complain about BHP or Orica's business units overseas? Shouldn't the Board be thanked for taking the fight to the rest of the world rather than retreating back into safe Australia?

 

[Rebekkap]

Hopefully this will also send a broader message to the Australian work force that we might think things are ok because of the resources boom but that could easily disappear and we shouldn't be making outrageous demands.

5% over three years - not even keeping pace with inflation. How dare workers make the "outrageous" demand for a modest payrise so their wage doesn't effectively go backwards?

 

[medhead]

While I'm not a fan of Al or the unions behaviour over past months, IMO he & Q have won this battle to date hands down, its a real pity the Gillard Gov. did not step in long ago to avoid all this turmoil. I'm flying with Q on a few flights in the next few weeks and will continue to support them with my business.

Not much of a victory. FWA have stated that the union industrial action wasn't significant enough to warrant intervention. So Joyce's response was excessive in that context. Then you seem to be repeating Abbott's position that the PM should have issued a notice under the Fair Work Act to terminate industrial action. Firstly, we now have a ruling that the industrial action was not significant enough to warrant intervention. Secondly, to issue a notice would totally bypass the proper judicial process outlined in the act. Abbott is basically advocating direct government intervention bypassing the usual democratic processes to resolve differences. Sorry Abbott but this is not a communist state; Seems Abbott wants a nanny state of his own choosing.

 

[Blackadder]

Latest from QF is that they hope to start clearing the backlog from around 2pm (EDST)
For those saying they will never fly QANTAS again, if you are a Frequent Flyer please feel free to transfer the points to my account.

 

[markj23]

5% over three years - not even keeping pace with inflation. How dare workers make the "outrageous" demand for a modest payrise so their wage doesn't effectively go backwards?

I would love to get 5% over 3 years ... instead i haven't had any sort of pay rise for 5+ years, i have had my car and fuel card taken off me (which is effectively $300/week). All employees of the company i work for had similar decreases in there packages because the company we worked for was showing signs of trouble, and we all knew that having a job was better then not having one.

Sometimes its just better to take the hit and just be happy your getting money in the bank each pay run

 

[medhead]

I guess we will have a number of divided opinions - I actually think this has enhanced my QF loyalty despite the disruptions to my team this week. I think the Board said to the unions you can't tell us how to run the airline. Hopefully this will also send a broader message to the Australian work force that we might think things are ok because of the resources boom but that could easily disappear and we shouldn't be making outrageous demands.

I also wonder if the people complaining about "the move to Asia" (not sure how you can fly SYD-MEL from an Asian base) also complain about BHP or Orica's business units overseas? Shouldn't the Board be thanked for taking the fight to the rest of the world rather than retreating back into safe Australia?

Given your stated opposition to the right of workers to take industrial action. I have been wondering over the weekend about your views on Qantas management taking industrial action.

Can I suggest that we do a Tony Jones and take that as a comment?

BTW I'm happy-ish and all. Sleep in this morning and moved to an 11:25 flight with Virgin so I get to do AFF. Shame I'll be at work until the wee hours tonight. Thanks AJ.

 

[kamchatsky]

Latest from QF is that they hope to start clearing the backlog from around 2pm (EDST)
For those saying they will never fly QANTAS again, if you are a Frequent Flyer please feel free to transfer the points to my account.

If they have QFF points they can just easily redeem gift cards.

 

[TonyHancock]

I am disappointed by the QF grounding decision. It was a cynical decision, with only one real outcome. (Which is, presumably, why the QF board chose that route.) It demonstrates nothing but contempt for customers. :-|

My preference now would be to see the short term removal of the current QF board. They have won their battle, now they need to pay the price for achieving victory in such a disgraceful and extreme manner.

The unions need to be replacing their senior figures too. They too had consistently failed with their actions over the last few months. If any agreement is going to be made will it really be achieved by the same parties that have failed for so long? Both parties have not behaved well.

I will be less inclined to fly QF in the future. I'm in Perth, hoping that my flight tomorrow will fly as planned, my company has one employee stranded overseas. Using customers to fight workplace battles is unacceptable on both sides.

As a frequent flyer I understand the need for a strong Qantas, but it will be forever tainted by this action.

 

[Kangol]

If less people choose to fly with Qantas now, then at least one good thing that comes out of it is that the QP will not be as crowded any more!
Unless they fly with Jetstar, which kinda defeats the purpose

 

[aliens]

I will still fly Qantas.
I work in medical research we have zero job security. We live from grant to grant and that is not increasing in fact people support is decreasing. get over it workers.

 

[Rebekkap]

... i haven't had any sort of pay rise for 5+ years, i have had my car and fuel card taken off me (which is effectively $300/week). All employees of the company i work for had similar decreases in there packages because the company we worked for was showing signs of trouble, and we all knew that having a job was better then not having one.

Sometimes its just better to take the hit and just be happy your getting money in the bank each pay run

Yeah, but none of that is the case at Qantas.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Those who criticise the management decision to ground the airline obviously should question their own management ability. This was the only option available to them. They have one of the highest cost bases of any airline in the world due to legacy agreements from a bygone era.

Qantas must adapt to the market or die. With inflexible demands from unions, it would be impossible to continue to run the business in a competitive environment. The amount of revenue lost by the protracted union campaigns would bleed the airline far more than a few days grounded, not to mention the long term reputation and brand risk by inevitably becoming a risk for passengers whether the airline would fly or not on a union's whim.

The people who are whining the most are likely to be the 8/10 who don't fly Qantas internationally and are therefore exacerbating the problem.

I for one will continue to direct all possible business to Qantas, as they have a superior product domestically, and a comparable product internationally.

It is regrettable, and I have great empathy for those displaced by this action, however we can now proceed to book and fly on the airline without the risk of strikes interrupting our business or personal travel plans.​

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

By the way, providing CASA approves, flights are due to recommence from 14:00 today, with additional services being added for affected customers.

On a side note, upon opening, the share price went up $0.90. This clearly shows the market believes Qantas made the right decision. Will be interesting to see where it closes.

 

[Rebekkap]

Those who criticise the management decision to ground the airline obviously should question their own management ability. This was the only option available to them.​

Not true - they could have taken the same action the government took - applying to FWA to stop the industrial action.​

 

[Flying mermaid]

I love flying Qantas and will continue to do so - over the weekend I went and had a look at the Velocity program and read some reviews on Singapore Air's F and J in preparation for venturing out from the Qantas umbrella. I did fly Ethihad F a few years ago when money was an issue, but was left ambivalent (3 good sectors, 1 very bad). I doubt I will swap from Qantas, unless things deteriorate more, but I am now perhaps more ready to do so than before. It is not about points or status - flying at the pointy end, means those things are really of reduced value - I just like the product and my comfort zone.

So I really want Qantas to succeed.

However both sides in this dispute (apart from the Pilots) have left me underwhelmed. It seems to have been all about posturing and brinkmanship rather than mature negotiation. I cannot believe it was impossible to come to a settlement.... When my 3 kids behaved like this they were told to grow up - looks FWA has to tell this bunch the same.

 

[N860CR]

The people who are whining the most are likely to be the 8/10 who don't fly Qantas internationally and are therefore exacerbating the problem.

Sorry ComeFlyWith me, don't mean to quote you personally on this one (I'm quoting that figure that has been used so much over the last few days).

The 8/10 is not entirely correct. Qantas carried just over 2.5M pax in CY2010 which is about 20% of the total passengers carried, however JQi carried 1M so all up the Qantas Group carried about 30% of the passengers (or to correct the figure Dick Smith etc are using, 7/10 passengers aren't flying Qantas). This figure doesn't include Jetstar Asia.

That doesn't look good, however we do have to consider the reason why the figures are so low. For CY2010, there were just under 73,000 scheduled international flights out of Australian ports. Qantas operated just under 14,000 of these (or, what do you know, about 20% of them). Jetstar another 6,300. Again, this doesn't include any of the Jetstar Asia flights.

I may be simplifying, however if Qantas are only operating 20% of the flights out of the country, common sense leads us to conclude that they'll only carry 20% of the passengers! Qantas have continued to cut International services over the years and pushed more services to Jetstar (with its lower cost base) so it's to be expected that market share will continue to fall. I don't believe this is as a result of people intentionally selecting other airlines, more a product of Qantas' decision to reduce capacity. I don't recall the last time I was on a QF International flight that wasn't very full (especially in J/F) and QF is 9/10 times the most expensive option.

That's a very very simplistic assessment that I've made (and please pull it apart), however it frustrates me that the media is constantly pulling this incorrect "8/10 passengers" line without telling the full story.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Not true - they could have taken the same action the government took - applying to FWA to stop the industrial action. [/INDENT]

How long do you think that would have taken, and how many millions of dollars would be lost in the meantime? FWA would only act if there was a significant national economic risk. Qantas made a decision to bring this matter to a head, as it would have dragged on for years and cost millions of dollars to the company, not to mention the tarnishing of the brand. The company would have eventually either had to enact large redundancies to remain competitive and decimate the business in the meantime, or take extreme action to force an outcome.

The 'national carrier' line being toyed with is actually false. The taxpayer and government have zero ownership. It is a public company owned by shareholders. The only thing national about Qantas is the kangaroo on the tail.

Shareholders have voted - the share price is now up over 5%.

 

[thewinchester]

On twitter right now, QF have announced that today's QF32 SIN-SYD and all flights ex-LAX are a go.