Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[JohnPhelan]

1.26pm Sydney flight path arrivals

Just seen my first 747 QF flight inbound to Sydney, although may have been a reposition from Melb.

EDIT sorry this got posted twice system is running slow

Actually, if it was a 747, it was VH-OEH, positioning from BNE.

 

[gwilli1]

It was reported on news.com.au that QF sent an empty A380 out. Does anyone know where it went too ?? LAX or Singapore ?

One of the airline's A380 jets has left Sydney without passengers in preparation for the resumption of full flight operations.

Read more: Rolling coverage: Industrial action terminated with Qantas back in the skies | News.com.au

 

[ajw373]

The last thing that I expected was for the Qantas Board to leave all those thousands of passengers stranded without any notice. I still don't see why they had to screw them all over that way.

If they didn't screw them over, as you so put it then the unions would have screwed over many thousands more over the coming months in their campaigns. So whilst it might be hard for those directly effected, the boards actions have prevented many more being effected long term.

 

[Maca44]

Qantas board has a company to run, and they make their decisions to operate the business after careful considerations based on the best outcome for the 'company'. QF could have applied to the FWA, but any legal battles in that regard would have been lengthy and the 'rolling strikes' by unions would have crippled the airline both morally and financially, and then the unions would have had no jobs. I feel sorry for the pax who have been adversely effected by the airlines being grounded, as I was in a somewhat similar position in 2001 when I was about to fly home on 9/11 and delayed several days. I suppose what really get me is how any union can dictate to a company, how that company should be run.

These are my own views.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

The last thing that I expected was for the Qantas Board to leave all those thousands of passengers stranded without any notice. I still don't see why they had to screw them all over that way.

Quite simply, to save the airline's future by bringing this to a head. I believe they accomplished that in the past few days.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

It was reported on news.com.au that QF sent an empty A380 out. Does anyone know where it went too ?? LAX or Singapore ?

One of the airline's A380 jets has left Sydney without passengers in preparation for the resumption of full flight operations.

Read more: Rolling coverage: Industrial action terminated with Qantas back in the skies | News.com.au

melbourne......

 

[amaroo]

I dare say it is not your eyes that need testing. Sorry, but "I would do XYZ" does not equal "you must do XYZ". Semantics, maybe but there is no need to make stuff up that does not exist. Frankly, that is what unionist do.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

It's all water under the bridge now. Did he say, don't buy tickets with QF....of course he did.....& even worse, he meant it.

I would think this bloke has & will continue to be flogged with some pretty blunt feedback from his peers & the faceless men higher up the totem pole. He's reckless & aggressive behaviour along with his ill-informed statements have been highly entertaining however, I suspect they have been totally counter-productive for the cause.

His Comical Ali like performance this morning just illustrates why the unions have now lost any & all leverage for an agreed settlement......now they will just have to accept what they get.

 

[medhead]

It's all water under the bridge now. Did he say, don't buy tickets with QF....of course he did.....& even worse, he meant it.

I would think this bloke has & will continue to be flogged with some pretty blunt feedback from his peers & the faceless men higher up the totem pole. He's reckless & aggressive behaviour along with his ill-informed statements have been highly entertaining however, I suspect they have been totally counter-productive for the cause.

His Comical Ali like performance this morning just illustrates why the unions have now lost any & all leverage for an agreed settlement......now they will just have to accept what they get.

He implied it, he didn't explicitly say it.

Very true they'll have to accept what they get. But this helps the union just as much as it does qantas. Qantas has been just as obstructionist as the unions. 21 days from now both sides will be told. Based on the union reaction today, I'd guess they have a fair bit to put into the arbitration process as well. Maybe you see the unions as a great Satan, but if we look at their limited industrial action. I'd guess their view was the negotiations were at a dead end and they wanted a resolution like this just as much as qantas. Their problem was they didn't want they actions to force the issue. And it hasn't. Management dropped the bomb on this one. Overall it is an extremely interesting situation and I think the next 3 weeks will be just as interesting as the last 9 months. I can't wait to see how this ends up and at least I can keep flying.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

It's all water under the bridge now. Did he say, don't buy tickets with QF....of course he did.....& even worse, he meant it.

I would think this bloke has & will continue to be flogged with some pretty blunt feedback from his peers & the faceless men higher up the totem pole. He's reckless & aggressive behaviour along with his ill-informed statements have been highly entertaining however, I suspect they have been totally counter-productive for the cause.

His Comical Ali like performance this morning just illustrates why the unions have now lost any & all leverage for an agreed settlement......now they will just have to accept what they get.

Just as bad, his mate Mr Sheldon at the TWU said similar. Unfortunately that kind of reprehensible behaviour will be rewarded, Sheldon will most likely be elected as party president for the ALP. Luckily, there won't be much left of the ALP after the next election.

 

[Stephen65]

He implied it, he didn't explicitly say it.

If we're talking about Steve Purvinas then this is what he is quoted as saying by smh:

ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas said the union planned to re-schedule the four-hour stoppage on Friday.
"I would think that by October the 28th when the Qantas AGM takes place you're likely to see full-day stoppages," Mr Purvinas told reporters in Melbourne.
"If I was a person considering travel over the period up until Christmas I'd probably be looking at airlines other than Qantas.
"If I was a passenger I wouldn't be purchasing a ticket with them at this stage."

Don't buy Qantas tickets: union

Those comments were enough to destroy any sympathy I might have had for the unions. The short-sighted greedy stupidity of it was breathtaking.

 

[drron]

Not much of a victory. FWA have stated that the union industrial action wasn't significant enough to warrant intervention. So Joyce's response was excessive in that context. Then you seem to be repeating Abbott's position that the PM should have issued a notice under the Fair Work Act to terminate industrial action. Firstly, we now have a ruling that the industrial action was not significant enough to warrant intervention. Secondly, to issue a notice would totally bypass the proper judicial process outlined in the act. Abbott is basically advocating direct government intervention bypassing the usual democratic processes to resolve differences. Sorry Abbott but this is not a communist state; Seems Abbott wants a nanny state of his own choosing.

You have concisely given the reasons why Joyce was right to do what he did.If QF had applied to the FWA as Julia said it obviously would not have got the result it has now.Continuing disruptions would have severely weakened QF.
And why the focus on Abbott-in this situation he is irrelevant.

 

[drron]

Not true - they could have taken the same action the government took - applying to FWA to stop the industrial action. [/INDENT]

Read the judgement.If QF had applied without this action they would not have got the same result.

 

[Stephen65]

Qantas didn't apply to the FWA for the same reason the government didn't either pre-shutdown: because without the shutdown there wasn't a serious enough economic risk to justify an FWA order terminating all industrial action.

By grounding the fleet Qantas upped the stakes to a point where the government was forced to act and the FWA forced to order a termination triggering the 21 day negotiation period and compulsory arbitration. Nothing else short of a capitulation to the unions would have brought matters to a conclusion.

 

[Timba-Jet]

Yes granted Qantas must have certainty to be successful and rolling strikes by unions escalated to enough is enough.

Would it of been realistic for Qantas to ground their fleet but provide some notice, say announce Sat for Mon. At least this would of given the poor public and business a window to react. At the same time Qantas could make a request to FWA showing how serious the issue is with the plan to ground flights and lock out union workers.

Compromise?

 

[DC3]

You have concisely given the reasons why Joyce was right to do what he did.If QF had applied to the FWA as Julia said it obviously would not have got the result it has now.Continuing disruptions would have severely weakened QF.
And why the focus on Abbott-in this situation he is irrelevant.

Yes, he is totally irrelevant. Period.

 

[Alanslegal]

If they didn't screw them over, as you so put it then the unions would have screwed over many thousands more over the coming months in their campaigns. So whilst it might be hard for those directly effected, the boards actions have prevented many more being effected long term.

I posted in this thread earlier and my response was something along the lines that Joyce and the Qantas board could have minimised the impact upon their customers by giving some notice, and I was giving an example of midnight that day the announcements were made. At least those at the airport, about to board, on the plane, on the tarmac or even preparing to head to the airport could have been able to "fly" that day rather than being stranded.

 

[medhead]

You have concisely given the reasons why Joyce was right to do what he did.If QF had applied to the FWA as Julia said it obviously would not have got the result it has now.Continuing disruptions would have severely weakened QF.

I don't exactly agree. They had to take that action to get the government to do what they did. In principle, to take action it has to be significant for the person making the report to FWA. So there was nothing to stop qantas, using the same regulation, going to FWA and saying they need a termination otherwise they have to ground the airline. That has to be taken seriously because only qantas has the required inside knowledge to support such a position. This is the failure by qantas, the government can only act on external information whereas qantas can act on internal info.

And why the focus on Abbott-in this situation he is irrelevant.

I 100%, totally, completely and without reservation agree. Abbott is an irrelevance However, I quoted someone that seemed to be repeating the bovine excrement* that Abbott was sprouting on TV.



* don't know if you saw that but the way the pilot union guy used that in a sentence, without missing a beat!, was gold.

If we're talking about Steve Purvinas then this is what he is quoted as saying by smh:

ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas said the union planned to re-schedule the four-hour stoppage on Friday.
"I would think that by October the 28th when the Qantas AGM takes place you're likely to see full-day stoppages," Mr Purvinas told reporters in Melbourne.
"If I was a person considering travel over the period up until Christmas I'd probably be looking at airlines other than Qantas.
"If I was a passenger I wouldn't be purchasing a ticket with them at this stage."

Don't buy Qantas tickets: union

Those comments were enough to destroy any sympathy I might have had for the unions. The short-sighted greedy stupidity of it was breathtaking.

Ok so if you read the thread you will see people claiming that he told/encouraged/demanded people to not buy qantas flights. What you have quoted does not match those claims. It is not an overt explicit demand for people to not fly with qantas. Sorry if you can't realise that.

By way for example. If I said "if I was you I'd torch your house". Is that a demand that you torch your house? No! It is simply very poor advice.

Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[clifford]

Yes, he is totally irrelevant. Period.

I'm afraid your comment is irrelevant.

What the politicians are saying is also irrelevant.

This all comes down to a stoush (similar to the previous waterfront one), orchestrated by Mr (evil) Clifford, to break the unions in Australia. Mr Joyce is just a hapless pawn in this game and that's why he got his 75% pay rise. He'll (try to) do the dirty work and then he'll be shown the door by Mr Clifford.

Unfortunately in this whole process, our national treasure Qantas, will be trashed.

How many Europeans do you think will now be likely to book Qantas?

 

[rechoboam]

I'm afraid your comment is irrelevant.

What the politicians are saying is also irrelevant.

This all comes down to a stoush (similar to the previous waterfront one), orchestrated by Mr (evil) Clifford, to break the unions in Australia. Mr Joyce is just a hapless pawn in this game and that's why he got his 75% pay rise. He'll (try to) do the dirty work and then he'll be shown the door by Mr Clifford.

Unfortunately in this whole process, our national treasure Qantas, will be trashed.

How many Europeans do you think will now be likely to book Qantas?

Uh, having been to Europe many times and having had a few days of general strike where nothing could be done, I think they will cope.

 

[11sjw]

I. Mr Joyce is just a hapless pawn in this game and that's why he got his 75% pay rise.

Unfortunately in this whole process, our national treasure Qantas, will be trashed.

Mr Joyce has not 'got' his 71% pay rise. 9% given, the rest deferred and to be tied to the share price performance. So the incentives for him are decent but they are far from given.

Qantas ceased to be ours about the time the skies were deregulated. Now they have to do whatever they can to prosper.