Qantas Frequent Flyer changes coming in early 2024

[levelnine]

The self-funded vs corporate distinction is a distraction. No frequent flyer program in the world rewards self-funded more than corporate. It also ignores the tight integration between the two. The corporate-funded road warrior spends big on QF on their annual holidays with their family due to the lounge access they get from their corporate-funded trips.

Ultimately I do think they need just more point spending options. The general public won't feel as cough about nowhere to spend points if the internal value for points for goods and services that arent QF CR flights isn't terrible. I actually feel that if Qantas wants to be smart about it, they can easily up the redemption rate for QF Points in their marketplace and really start dominating in that space AND make more people happy that their points spent there don't feel like cough.

This suggestion is on topic. It is an interesting one, but not one Qantas will do, I think. The margins on the Qantas store are likely to be quite thin. They are reliable, but not huge. Goods retailing is always thin margins that are made up in volume. If they significantly improved the redemption value on the Qantas store, I think it'd quickly become unprofitable.

 

[Jacques Vert]

Getting rid of Neil's grass clippings would be a good start.

 

[gilldo]

It’s only a matter of time before the RBA reviews interchange fees again and cuts them, leading to lower sign-up bonuses and points earn rates. It’s inevitable, from a consumer protection standpoint, given the rise of cashless payments. Enjoy the good times while they last.

Given what the Fed Govt did for QF by keeping QR out of additional key market slots, I'd be very surprised if the RBA intervened in this way.

 

[gilldo]

Another bold prediction: QFF moves to Avios currency the same way Qatar and FinnAir did. Soon all OneWorld airlines will use Avios as the currency for travel alliance wide

I know that this has happened, but what is the actual benefit if each scheme restricts award availability to it's own members and introduces different pricing models?

 

[RooFlyer]

I would like to see family pooling of points like Virgin has.

Welcome to AFF @Jhart2460

I know that this has happened, but what is the actual benefit if each scheme restricts award availability to it's own members and introduces different pricing models?

With BA and QR (don't now about the others in the Avios Club), you can move Avios between their two programs. So when I went to redeem a QR award, I topped up the balance in Privilege Club by moving some Avios from BA EC.

 

[FallenFlyer]

I would like to see:
1. more than just 2 classic award seats in premium cabins released on flights on major routes. (I.e. I have a family of 4 - it's near impossible to find 4 business class seats on a flights internationally)
2. Some sort of logic to the seat releases. You used to be able to time it like clockwork, now there doesn't seem to be any logic to when seats become available.
3. More classic award seats during peak seasons (school holidays, Christmas holidays)
4. Clarity/ verification of what extra seats they release I.e. Qantas always toutes "releasing 50,000 extra classic award seats" etc. To where? When? Must be economy to some unwanted destination because there appears to be no change to any flights myself or anyone I talk to are looking for!

 

[SydneySwan]

I would like to see guaranteed minimum classic reward seats released on every flight. This is what Virgin UK, BA and now Finnair do. A good start would be 4Y, 2PE, 2J on every flight.

I find it ridiculous that Qantas is allowed to sell unlimited numbers of points without any guaranteed minimum award availability to use those points in return.

 

[gilldo]

Things I'd like to see:
- consistency in Classic Award release dates (as we used to have). Releases every day x days prior to flying. Current arrangements seem to revolve around when QF need a PR injection and/or staying in touch with the AFF 'bush telegraph'. Planning a OW Business Classic Reward has now gone from challenging to impossible.
- a minimum x/y/z reward seats in different classes on EVERY QF flight (only variance is size of aircraft)
- consistency in reward offerings between OneWorld alliance members. The current QF/QR stoush is an appalling situation for all concerned and almost makes me want to head to Velocity instead.
- vastly improved self-service options (ie. making online changes to existing bookings to say, add/change some legs on a OneWorld Classic Reward booking).

 

[I love to travel]

I would like to see guaranteed minimum classic reward seats released on every flight. This is what Virgin UK, BA and now Finnair do. A good start would be 4Y, 2PE, 2J on every flight.

I find it ridiculous that Qantas is allowed to sell unlimited numbers of points without any guaranteed minimum award availability to use those points in return.

I agree but this will only be useful if all QFF can get access to the seats at the same time. Most people are silver and bronze so they will always continue to miss out.

 

[jase05]

consistency in reward offerings between OneWorld alliance members. The current QF/QR stoush is an appalling situation for all concerned and almost makes me want to head to Velocity instead.

QF could start by offering decent status credits when flying other OW airlines instead of their disgraceful and pitiful earns where you are punished for choosing other airlines.
Seems QF wants the best of both (one)worlds

 

[Gremlin]

I would like to see guaranteed minimum classic reward seats released on every flight. This is what Virgin UK, BA and now Finnair do. A good start would be 4Y, 2PE, 2J on every flight.

I find it ridiculous that Qantas is allowed to sell unlimited numbers of points without any guaranteed minimum award availability to use those points in return.

From what I understand, there is guaranteed award availability, even on sold out flights, if you're of sufficient status. I think your issue is that that status is by invitation only.

The premise of a loyalty program is that the organisation tries to extract more and more value from certain groups of customers who subsidise benefits for those that enable value. If you look at it through this lens, Qantas are actually quite overt as to who falls into what group. More so than just about any other organisation. CLs are heavily, heavily subsidised. Everyone else is in the value extraction category.

 

[CaptJCool]

if it’s a frequent FLYERS program
It stands to reason the benefits would flow to the highest status PAX (and this crowd is feeling “we wuz robbed” - we waited 3 years locked down in Australia and now there’s no chance of finding reward seats)
So there’s 3 years of points accumulation and only one years worth of reward seats …. Muses

HOWEVER
there’s now the formal frequent BUYERS Points Club crowd who want to use their points earn on the annual holiday and who would move their spending from another airline with whom they have historically regularly travelled to this one QF to do so
The crowd in the queue has expanded but not the allocated rewards goodies

POINTS BANKERS
And then there’s the slow boat earners - the Once in a Lifetime travellers who feel “we Wuz robbed” who don’t travel overseas that much of at all who were banking 20 years of points to take a couples journey in the promised land of J & F
No status and less than zero chance of finding rewards seats

None of these are insurmountable problems - first define them and then work on some solutions to solve them. Personalised offers perhaps ?

 

[Mwenenzi]

QF could start by offering decent status credits when flying other OW airlines instead of their disgraceful and pitiful earns where you are punished for choosing other airlines.
Seems QF wants the best of both (one)worlds

FF miles/avios/points & status earning are a financial transaction between the ff program seller (QF ffp, BAEC etc)) and the marketing/operating airline. Programs like QF ffp, BAEC, AAvantage, Krisflyer, etc sell miles/avios/points for cash $$ to airlines, credit cards, hotels, retail organisation (~WW everyday/Coles) and the like. And a great profitable business it is. Which is why world wide many "frequent flyer" programs are morphing into frequent spender programs.

There will a cost-value-benefit calculation by both parties. It is not one sided. For example for years CX marketed flight have had low-nil earning on some fare buckets to most(all?) OW ffp's. Including L class used on OW RTW LONE* and GLOB* products.

Some folks here need look at other ffp's as to what fares earn for miles/avios/points & status earning on their partner airlines. Some are better than others, however QF ffp ranks low. If awards are your ffp objective (cash) earn to burn is what matters.

 

[Flyfrequently]

Just checked my emails @CaptJCool :
I could earn 250 bonus points with BP Woolies, 2500 points for my shop (except we don't live near one)
BWS happy to do 1000 points for $80 wine
Qantas wine beats that with 5000 bonus points and triple points.
Change my home and car insurance to Qantas 50,000 points per policy, 2 cars and house = 150,000
Choice of credit card offers 70,000 and upwards
Health insurance up to 150,000.
Or trial hearing aid for 6000 points!

I could be Points Club Plus by lunchtime!

It is no wonder that in past 3 years, many folk (especially not so frequent "flyers") are sitting on a stash of points and looking for ways to get CR.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Just checked my emails @CaptJCool :
<snip>
I could be Points Club Plus by lunchtime!

It is no wonder that in past 3 years, many folk (especially not so frequent "flyers") are sitting on a stash of points and looking for ways to get CR.

But these frequent spenders/in-frequent flyers want business class award seats to Disneyland for them and offspring at any time they choose. And complain on social media when it does not happen.

 

[coyote25]

I agree but this will only be useful if all QFF can get access to the seats at the same time. Most people are silver and bronze so they will always continue to miss out.

Maybe QF could start with 4Y / 2PE / 2J / 1F as minimum release on the day bookings window opens for SG and above. Where the class doesn’t exist you add to the Y seat category.

Then QF could add more award seats when Silver and Bronze bookings are opened ie available to everyone. This could be an additional 4Y / 2PE / 1J. I won’t expect another F Seat for minimum award releases unless Yield management thinks it’s worth releasing.

QF could also state that additional award seats being made available will be considered by Yield Management and any additional seats released 4 weeks before each flight. And one additional YM release 1 week (if it makes sense).

With the above you still keep the benefit and incentive to be higher status members (with WP still having additional ability to request release via app / website interface request).

You then ensure Silver and Bonze at least have a small chance for seats when their booking window opens (very limited right now for international flights on key routes).

The other two scheduled releases allow for people to know when additional seats might be released and being closer to the flight gives small chance for those that can’t plan well in advance who currently have almost zero chance on key routes. Seats might not be released due to demand for revenue seats but at least you know possible release dates so you can check.

Nothing in the above stops special award releases.

The above I think would balance incentives for frequent flyers but gives something much better to your point earners and more certainty and transparency for everyone.

While I personally feel they will go with a SQ type approach with a Saver and Advantage approach to release more seats at higher point spend than current CR rate so QF can be seen to be doing something positive I’d much prefer an award seat release guarantees and a more scheduled and consistent award release schedule.

 

[Gremlin]

FWIW, I think dynamic pricing of rewards is coming. A few reasons...

1. It will allow them to increase the raw count of award seats available.
2. It will allow them to spruik that they are now offering award seats cheaper than are 'currently' available. This will be heavily marketed.
3. It will allow them to increase the raw count of premium seats available for redemption on QF metal, whilst also pushing the average price of them significantly higher. What will be heavily marketed will be the very small number of redemptions available at less than the current rates.
4. It will allow them to devalue the average redemption (by a lot, is my guess).
5. It makes it much harder for customers to determine the 'fair value' of a point.

I personally also see them moving away from the fixed calendar, fixed release of seats. When you've got more people chasing 'good value' rewards than the number of rewards they are willing to make available, it makes sense to offer them in bursts. Gambling companies do exactly this with their jackpots. Look at both the publicity in the media and the dopamine hit to AFFers that was generated when they released those rewards seats to LHR and FCO a couple of weeks ago. That same number of seats drip fed over the course of a year, or released according to a published timetable, gets no such reaction.

 

[tdimdad]

Maybe QF could start with 4Y / 2PE / 2J / 1F as minimum release on the day bookings window opens for SG and above.

Then QF could add more award seats when Silver and Bronze bookings are opened ie available to everyone.

QF could also state that additional award seats being made available will be considered by Yield Management

Exactly how I wish it'd happen. An initial release for high status pax, another release for lower status pax, then start releasing seats on flights which have low load forecasted.

The fixed releases would be at CR rates, the yield management releases could use dynamic pricing.

 

[Berlin]

Oh no. Bad news, 100%.

 

[levelnine]

Maybe QF could start with 4Y / 2PE / 2J / 1F as minimum release on the day bookings window opens for SG and above. Where the class doesn’t exist you add to the Y seat category.

Then QF could add more award seats when Silver and Bronze bookings are opened ie available to everyone. This could be an additional 4Y / 2PE / 1J.

Guaranteed minimum seats are such an interesting suggestion.

I think it'd have to be more than 1J for silver and bronze otherwise Qantas is unable to sell the dream to Joe Average — taking your wife/husband/child/parent/best friend with you in business class to London/New York.

That leaves Qantas in a bind — it probably can't afford to release 4J on every flight (2 for elites and 2 more for non-elites).

My guess would be that a guaranteed minimum might spell of the end of elite priority. Remember BA (the originator of guaranteed minimum seats) offers its elites no extra or priority access to premium award seats (only economy).