Qantas Frequent Flyer changes coming in early 2024

[RooFlyer]

Welcome to AFF @Nickster

 

[levelnine]

To me, the predictability is the key.

What you suggest might work, though it would no longer really be a guarantee then — most people envisage a guarantee being a guarantee of seats on every flight.

The bigger problem is that customers and management are at direct odds on guaranteed seat releases. Management want to retain discretionary releases so they can fill peak periods with 100% cash fares and use awards to fill seats that would other go empty during non-peak periods. Often they don't know loads with certainty until a few months out. Customers want the ability to get award seats on at least some (if not all) flights during peak and non-peak periods, and to be able to book them 12 months out.

That's not to say it won't happen. BA and others have done it. But the important point to note about BA is that they have ample award availability on most routes (Australia being a general exception) because their surcharges are generally outrageous, so no one wants them — you're often better off paying cash! In other words, BA are not really making a sacrifice by offering an award seat guarantee because they'd have available award seats in any case since there is such low demand for them. So I guess be careful what you wish for ...

 

[Gremlin]

The bigger problem is that customers and management are at direct odds on guaranteed seat releases.

I don't think this is true. And from what I understand, focus groups have shown this not to be true. Certainty around release doesn't actually help the bulk of customers. It only helps those savvy enough to play the game, who have invested significant amounts of time and effort in understanding how such timed releases work (of which, AFFers are disproportionately represented). They work well for those with the flexibility to be able to plan their leisure travel 11 and a half months out, with the flexibility in their scheduling to consider Plans B, C and D on routing and timing, if they don't get their ideal first choice.

But many high value frequent flyers are time poor. They don't plan their holidays years in advance, nor have the ability to sit on a computer at exactly 10am 350-something days out to nab the 2 J seats to LAX on the exact day that they want them, only to do it all again to book their return flight. It's a risk for these customers if they don't get the exact day they want, since they may not have flexibility around their travel dates. They don't want to have to take two days extra leave to fly back from LAX via ICN, HKG and SIN because that's all the award availability they could get on that return leg. They might be flying J all the time for work, but if customers like this have no way of ever accessing return J rewards with certainty around dates for leisure then the QFF program offers lesser value than elsewhere.

In comparison, things like the bulk release of seats to LHR and FCO that we saw a couple of weeks ago actually makes reward inventory available, and more importantly, attractive, to a wider audience of high value frequent flyers. When seats are released in this manner, you can have certainty around what you book at the time you book it, including the ability to book a return, on exact dates, on exact routing, in the cabin you want - if there's that availability.

 

[mviy]

Only if you find out about the bulk release of seats in time. It was completely unexpected, and covered a period which would suit me to visit the UK, but by the time I became aware of the release the availability had already dried up even though I am a WP and only looking for one return J/F.

 

[levelnine]

I don't think this is true. And from what I understand, focus groups have shown this not to be true. Certainty around release doesn't actually help the bulk of customers. It only helps those savvy enough to play the game, who have invested significant amounts of time and effort in understanding how such timed releases work (of which, AFFers are disproportionately represented).

It's hard to tell what you are trying to say in this post.

You seem to be arguing that different release methods favour different groups of customers, which is self evidently true. I never said otherwise.

But it is crystal clear that guaranteed seats do not favour management because they reduce management's flexibility to hold back seats for high demand periods and reduces management's flexibility to hold back award seats to then release them en masse to gain some good publicity. They only favour management if management increases the cost of award seats to the point that they are equally happy for a customer to book with cash or points, which would be a loss for customers because then they are no longer getting outsized value for their points.

As for high value frequent flyers, they aren't huge winners from random batch releases. They can obviously get lucky from the lottery, but so can a bronze frequent flyer. What if the batch release never comes for the dates they need? At least with guaranteed releases they have a chance to make a speculative booking and eat the 6K cancellation fee if they can't get time off.

 

[Gremlin]

Guaranteed release of seats 353 days in advance don't favour Qantas management. But to say that's in direct odds with what customers want is wrong. From what I understand, their focus groups show that only a small percentage, those who have the flexibility to work with the timing of release of guaranteed seats, want them released in that format.

Most customers would prefer something like what happened two weeks ago to a drip feed of 2 J seats every day on every flight. Even if that meant not every flight had a guaranteed seat.

 

[levelnine]

Most customers would prefer something like what happened two weeks ago to a drip feed of 2 J seats every day on every flight. Even if that meant not every flight had a guaranteed seat.

Is there any data on that? I find that very hard to believe.

Most people wanting to redeem their points are not checking for availability on qantas.com every day waiting for a batch release of seats.

 

[Gremlin]

Is there any data on that? I find that very hard to believe.

From what I understand, that's come out of focus groups of high value churning QFFers. But your sources might be better than mine.

 

[dairyfloss]

Is there any data on that? I find that very hard to believe.

Most people wanting to redeem their points are not checking for availability on qantas.com every day waiting for a batch release of seats.

From what I understand, that's come out of focus groups of high value churning QFFers. But your sources might be better than mine.

Easy:

 

[CaptJCool]

In looking at the thread on staff travel, plus considering the $2.5!billion profit, . Seems there’s lots of cheap seats around the place yet look at the whopping profit so offering more classic reward tickets is a question of policy

They can do it if they choose too

 

[Gremlin]

In looking at the thread on staff travel, plus considering the $2.5!billion profit, . Seems there’s lots of cheap seats around the place yet look at the whopping profit so offering more classic reward tickets is a question of policy

They can do it if they choose too

Absolutely they can. But if you look at the Investor Day Presentation from August, the Incremental Customer Revenue Extraction Divis... *ahem* I mean, Loyalty Division talk about several priorities:

1. Increasing EBIT
2. Increasing active member base, predominantly through non-flying activity
3. Expanding the "Earn" portfolio to "capture all everyday needs"
4. Diversifying the Redemption options

"Diversifying" is an interesting word here. They explicitly list the following in terms of expansions:

• Expand Hotels & Holidays proposition
• New retail redemption offers

The third dot point is "Enhance flight reward proposition". "Enhance" is such a Qantas word, isn't it?

In terms of redemptions, they are forecasting 3% growth in flight redemptions YOY. Which is basically in line with their forecast QFF customer growth. But less than forecast capacity growth for both QFd and QFi. So the same number of Reward seats, but FEWER reward seats per flight. In contrast, they are forecasting 10% to 15% growth in "Hotel/Holiday" redemptions and 15% growth in Retail redemptions YOY.

So you'll get no more flights, but there's going to be a helluva lot of toasters up for grabs.

 

[levelnine]

Easy:

Qantas is a ruthless (look at how they treat their employees) for-profit corporation. They are going to release as few seats as is possible without having customers switch to competitors.

We're talking about how Qantas might/should divide up an incredibly small pie.

There are no free lunches here. There's going to be a devaluation one way or another. It's just a case of where that devaluation hits.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Or where its not so obvious.

 

[Gremlin]

Thinking more about the forecast growth in flight redemptions vs "Holiday", it seems like Qantas are going for the 'whole of travel wallet' share. I wonder if that means that there might be bundled rewards of flight and hotel and ancillaries and whether that would cannibalise existing flight rewards? Ie, would they potentially reduce the number of Classic Reward Flights to HNL, but increase the number of Classic Reward Holidays Packages to HNL by the same amount? Pure speculation on my part, but I can see that that would have appeal to those high value defectors.

 

[ff2527]

Qantas CEO Vanessa Hudson flagged "permanent improvements" to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program, to be announced early next year, at today's AGM.

Details here:

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/qantas-changes-coming-early-2024/

What Frequent Flyer changes would you like Qantas to announce in early 2024?

How about a more reasonable, and realistic, requirement to earn lifetime platinum? Making it 50k instead of the current 75k would reward loyalty rather than thumbing their noses and driving people towards other programmes after attaining lifetime gold.

 

[Anjan]

QF needs to engage their life time Gold members. I have a bucket load of points and totally disengaged from the program. Achieving LTP is not a reality but I would get there sooner with BA executive club if I was to pursue this. So something like for LTG starting each year with 600SC and only needing 800SC would engage me more to fly QF. I just don't see the value any more of the QF loyalty tax where you pay a premium for a sub par product! I like the idea of guaranteed number of seats on each flight and the number of points for redemption. QR and SQ are less than QF. Underlying all this is QF treats loyalty on a one way basis. I have had more luck on KF over the last 18 months to Europe and Asia in business and Suites. QF premium seats business and first to Europe/US/Asia on the other hand are rare as hens teeth!

 

[Anjan]

I’m talking about status credits not FF points.
QF want people to fly on them or EK and punish you for flying other OW members which seems to be against the whole idea of an alliance.
A few examples
-SYD-DXB on EK with a QF number in J nets you 200SC’s whereas SYD-DOH on QR in J nets you a paltry 80SC’s
-SYD-HND on QF in J nets you 125SC’s yet dare to fly the same route on JL and you collect a pathetic 60SC’s
Thats just a couple and don’t get me started on the MH garbage. Personally I think it stinks and was the main reason I switched to BAEC

One of my bug bears and have now joined BAEC. I am a LTG member and totally disengaged from the program!

 

[Winemaker]

I have over a million points and essentially find that I can only use them for domestic upgrades and even then as a Platinum member I only succeed about 50% of the time. I would like to fly to the US or Europe with points but on the same way that I pay to do so now, ie directly. Every time I try and plan using the Qantas website I am offered indirect routes that use undesired airlines and go via say Shanghai. When I have points with Qatar I am able to use them for direct flights in business class. I have not even addressed the poor service due to lack of planes in service.

 

[Flying Uke]

Qantas CEO Vanessa Hudson flagged "permanent improvements" to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program, to be announced early next year, at today's AGM.

Details here:

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/qantas-changes-coming-early-2024/

What Frequent Flyer changes would you like Qantas to announce in early 2024?

A simple and cheap benefit would be the ability to fly forward. This used to be available to anyone at the discretion of the airport staff, but they stopped that years ago. I was thinking something along the lines of 2 per year for bronze up to 10 per year for platinum. Very frustrating to be in an airport earlier than expected and see flights going to your destination that are not full but not being able to take them.

 

[elanshin]

A simple and cheap benefit would be the ability to fly forward. This used to be available to anyone at the discretion of the airport staff, but they stopped that years ago. I was thinking something along the lines of 2 per year for bronze up to 10 per year for platinum. Very frustrating to be in an airport earlier than expected and see flights going to your destination that are not full but not being able to take them.

This is available regularly on the app when there is space.

When I was NB a few years ago I could regularly see a few options on the triangle routes (SYD MEL BNE). Now I sometimes see every flight for the day available to me on the app. Ive even almost accidentally moves too far forward and understimated Sydney traffic once.

It's to the point that i often book the 22:00 SYD > MEL for cheaper (or points) relatively late then end up flying 19:00 or 20:00