Qantas International Schedule changes

[JoeyKangaroo]

ICN was one of the very few airports I could get a rewards seat too. Glad to be going in November this year but it is very disappointing to see they will no longer fly there.

I find it odd that Qantas really just called itself as a business airline and considers Jetstar as the "leisure" (poor) airline. I fly with Qantas because its a full service airline that has been generally reliable and has a wide loyalty program.

"This swap will result in an overall increase in seats between the cities and better serve the strong leisure demand for the route"

"Qantas launched flights to Seoul after the pandemic, and now that demand has normalised, it’s grown substantially as a leisure market, opening up a great opportunity for Jetstar to increase its frequencies and allow Qantas to redeploy its aircraft to other routes where we are seeing strong demand"

Am I wrong to find this somewhat offensive? I expect quality service when I pay for Qantas with my hard earned money, so why should passengers be relegated to a budget lower tier airline because some executive says 'well jetstar is good enough for the plebs'

 

[justinbrett]

ICN was one of the very few airports I could get a rewards seat too. Glad to be going in November this year but it is very disappointing to see they will no longer fly there.

I find it odd that Qantas really just called itself as a business airline and considers Jetstar as the "leisure" (poor) airline. I fly with Qantas because its a full service airline that has been generally reliable and has a wide loyalty program.

"This swap will result in an overall increase in seats between the cities and better serve the strong leisure demand for the route"

"Qantas launched flights to Seoul after the pandemic, and now that demand has normalised, it’s grown substantially as a leisure market, opening up a great opportunity for Jetstar to increase its frequencies and allow Qantas to redeploy its aircraft to other routes where we are seeing strong demand"

Am I wrong to find this somewhat offensive? I expect quality service when I pay for Qantas with my hard earned money, so why should passengers be relegated to a budget lower tier airline because some executive says 'well jetstar is good enough for the plebs'

You found it easy to get a reward seat because QF wasn’t selling enough revenue seats.

That should answer you last paragraph. It’s just a matter of dollars, and obviously the route wasn’t making enough money compared to what they can make on other routes, like MEL-HNL. That is also a leisure market but also one that has no problem selling premium seats on.

 

[Lynda2475]

If J isnt selling well on SYD-ICN maybe I can hope for an op-up before the route closes

 

[NM]

The smallest plane (ever) at SIN? I don't think I've ever seen anything smaller than a 737-200 at Changi?

QF A220 is 137 passengers. I did DRW-JKT-SIN many, many years ago on a VC10, which would have been around 120 seats on BOAC configuration. But given the choice, I'd jump on an A220 for the DRW-SIN trip, which would be WAY quieter and more comfortable than a 1970s VC-10!

 

[crh66]

However, you would be entitled to the points difference as JQ requires fewer points (a refund of 20,500 points one way for J).

You think we'd need to follow up on points refund?

...I've actually just accepted a JQ replacement on a QF J reward flight SYD-ICN in August next year, pity I didn't read the suggestions above first

 

[elanshin]

You found it easy to get a reward seat because QF wasn’t selling enough revenue seats.

That should answer you last paragraph. It’s just a matter of dollars, and obviously the route wasn’t making enough money compared to what they can make on other routes, like MEL-HNL. That is also a leisure market but also one that has no problem selling premium seats on.

If J isnt selling well on SYD-ICN maybe I can hope for an op-up before the route closes

Its hard to say. I had a 100% full flight and so did my brother in what is supposed to be offpeak periods. I don't think QF was doing poorly load wise.

That being said it could be as simple of a situation as QF group need to fit the JQ 787 somewhere in a rotation now that MEL - HNL is switched over to mainline. So rather than launching a new route they changed this.

I struggle to believe that there would be less demand for SYD - ICN than BNE - MNL.

 

[justinbrett]

Its hard to say. I had a 100% full flight and so did my brother in what is supposed to be offpeak periods. I don't think QF was doing poorly load wise.

That being said it could be as simple of a situation as QF group need to fit the JQ 787 somewhere in a rotation now that MEL - HNL is switched over to mainline. So rather than launching a new route they changed this.

I struggle to believe that there would be less demand for SYD - ICN than BNE - MNL.

But again, it’s not just load factors. How much profit were they making?

 

[serfty]

The official Qantas Policy is abhorrent .

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/agency-news/agency-news-october-24/commercial-and-reward-bookings-policy-for-customer-impact-by-suspension-of-qantas-seoul-incheon-services.html

---

• For customers travelling to ICN. Rebook +/-3 days from original departure date to a Jetstar Airways operated flight between Australia and ICN. Rebook to a Qantas operated Australian domestic flight to connect with the Jetstar operated ICN flight if required.
• For Jetstar operated flights, rebook into
  • T class for economy cabin booking
  • D class for business cabin booking
• For Qantas operated flights, rebook into same booking class as original booking. If the same booking class is not available, the lowest booking class within the same cabin may be booked.
• Customer opting to travel with Jetstar will be eligible for a partial refund

 

[DAC1]

Any request to have a cancelled SYD-ICN on QF rebooked to another airline that is not JQ will be futile.

The official Qantas policy is rebooking to JQ with a partial refund, a credit or a refund.

 

[serfty]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you receive First Lounge access if you are P or P1 travelling on JQ?

You are correct. But if that means you are flying Jetstar long-haul - then no Qantas Flounge is worth it!

 

[Gold Member]

Am I wrong to find this somewhat offensive? I expect quality service when I pay for Qantas with my hard earned money, so why should passengers be relegated to a budget lower tier airline because some executive says 'well jetstar is good enough for the plebs'

LOL, no. This is just how Qantas treat their customers. For many years Qantas has charged premium prices for a Low Cost Carrier experience. They rely on their outstanding brand (2nd most distrusted in Australia - I’m sure you already knew) and the lure of the Qantas Frequent Flyer “Loyalty” program to distract us from the reality of their woeful offering.

If you don’t agree with their behaviour and don’t like the way Qantas treat their customers, do something about it. Join the rest of us and boycott them. The skies are so much brighter elsewhere with significantly more rewarding Frequent Flyer Programs.

 

[serfty]

The official Qantas Policy is abhorrent .

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/agency-news/agency-news-october-24/commercial-and-reward-bookings-policy-for-customer-impact-by-suspension-of-qantas-seoul-incheon-services.html

---

• For customers travelling to ICN. Rebook +/-3 days from original departure date to a Jetstar Airways operated flight between Australia and ICN. Rebook to a Qantas operated Australian domestic flight to connect with the Jetstar operated ICN flight if required.
• For Jetstar operated flights, rebook into
  • T class for economy cabin booking
  • D class for business cabin booking
• For Qantas operated flights, rebook into same booking class as original booking. If the same booking class is not available, the lowest booking class within the same cabin may be booked.
• Customer opting to travel with Jetstar will be eligible for a partial refund

This arguably may contradict Qantas Conditions of Carriage:

10.3 Discountinued Route​

If we cease to operate on a route and as a result we cancel a flight for which you have purchased a Ticket, we will:

(a) offer you a seat on the next available flight on our services for an alternative route to the same destination (if available) and where a connection was arranged by us, a seat on the next available connecting flight; or

(b) alternatively, at your option, refund the applicable fare.

You may also have rights to remedies under the Australian Consumer Law,, the New Zealand Consumer Law, the Convention and/or the Civil Aviation Act 1990 (NZ).

 

[dajop]

The smallest plane (ever) at SIN? I don't think I've ever seen anything smaller than a 737-200 at Changi?

Not at all. It won't even be the smallest plane providing RPT service when it commences, Scoot are currently operating 112 seat E190's.

Pardon Our Interruption

And even within the last decade Firefly (Malaysian carrier) operated ATR-72's.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.alamy.com/changi-singapore-january-29-2018-firefly-atr-72-airplane-at-changi-airport-sin-in-singapore-image352802697.html&ved=2ahUKEwisgfaAppKJAxUDUaQEHTGpAvQQh-wKegQIHRAD&usg=AOvVaw2Yn3pO1qizQSdG4WXNC4Ox

 

[Saab34]

ICN has probably suffered from overcapacity on the leisure end from Sydney. We have Jetstar with its new flights, plus T’Way multiple times weekly with its dense A330s, seems to be a similar impact to the VietJet impact on Vietnam routes, yield seems very low.

 

[justinbrett]

This arguably may contradict Qantas Conditions of Carriage:

How? They’ve offered an alternative route on their services, or a refund.

 

[hutch]

How? They’ve offered an alternative route on their services, or a refund.

It isn't an alternative if SYD-ICN was part of your Oneworld award.

I don't recall another time when QF has pulled out of a market and they haven't offered other alternatives (other than Jetstar or leave it).

 

[justinbrett]

It isn't an alternative if SYD-ICN was part of your Oneworld award.

I don't recall another time when QF has pulled out of a market and they haven't offered other alternatives (other than Jetstar or leave it).

Key phrase - “if available”.

Of course nothing stopping you changing to other award options if there’s availability.

 

[mbell1510]

I suppose Seoul was an easier one to drop given it was the only A330 destination (that I can think of) that is not flown daily as the loads don't seem to be too bad, according to BITRE data. Obviously they need to pull one A330 to cater for its MEL-HNL flights.

In July, loads were 96.8% inbound (foreign students coming back), but only 64.8 per cent on the outbound. All other months this year have had loads between the mid 80s and 90s on both outbound and inbound legs.

Super glad that the A380 is back into DFW. Yet more chopping and changing with JFK. I think the past year has seen it go from five to six and now back to five.

 

[Saab34]

I thought JFK was a relatively strong route?

US Carriers have pulled back capacity into NZ so thought that would have only benefited this route.

 

[ANstar]

QF needs to setup more CX and CI codeshares to ICN. No way would anyone sane fly JQ.

18 million a year fly Jetstar... Can't be that bad. This says everything about the market - its VFR/Students/Tourism and therefore is more suited to Jetstar than Qantas.

Update, have currently been on the phone for 1 hour, QF still insisting I fly with JQ, or that there is no availability on CX with reward seats. I told them that was there issue, as I booked a full service airline and expect to fly on a full service airline in J class to Seoul.

At least they offered to rebook you on Jetstar. When I had my Finnair awards changed last year I was told I could get a points refund and that was it - couldn't rebook me on anything as no reward availability.

In these situations they will always offer a refund as they seem to have done here.