Qantas Lounge Pet Peeves

[jase05]

There's many QF customers flying JQ against their will - it's the dual brand strategy that is to blame. Unless and until QF & JQ compete, and JQ isn't gifted most of the leisure routes, QF has to accommodate JQ pax. They've done pretty well making JQ domestic lounge access not worth it in SYD & MEL.

I do like the QR model as o believe the F lounges should be a bit more exclusive but as you said it wouldn’t work here if you made the F lounges say F or J with elite status only.
I just don’t think JQ pax should have access to the F lounge but I know I’m in the minority on that. I’m fine with them having J lounge access

 

[justinbrett]

I do like the QR model as o believe the F lounges should be a bit more exclusive but as you said it wouldn’t work here if you made the F lounges say F or J with elite status only.
I just don’t think JQ pax should have access to the F lounge but I know I’m in the minority on that. I’m fine with them having J lounge access

F is dead anyway. QF might retain it for sunrise, but could well be the only oneworld F pax at SYD/MEL. QR have said no, AA have said no, I'm sure BA will drop it soon.

 

[RooFlyer]

For every person going through the premium entry is a person who skips the shops.

That's absolutely key to many airport lay-outs. When I was investment banking, on the Advisor team for an o/s group looking to buy Darwin and a couple of other airports in the '90s, one of them railed about the design of Darwin airport, which was pretty new then. I thought - that's odd - its a really good design. You enter the airport, check-in, go straight to the lounge and then straight to the gates. Someone asked them - and the reply was, if they buy Darwin airport, no one will get on an aircraft until they have passed at least 20 shops.

Seating should be sparse and not comfortable too - to get pax up and moving about the retail.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

F is dead anyway. QF might retain it for sunrise, but could well be the only oneworld F pax at SYD/MEL. QR have said no, AA have said no, I'm sure BA will drop it soon.

I read BA has 11% of the world’s first class market, second behind EK’s 30%. I think BA F must be here to stay? Plenty of money in the UK to support it?

 

[justinbrett]

I read BA has 11% of the world’s first class market, second behind EK’s 30%. I think BA F must be here to stay? Plenty of money in the UK to support it?

How much of that 11% is the world's best J market?

Once carriers like QR only fly J, and thus make J even better, I don't think BA will be able to compete. Maybe it will be branded as F but sold at the J price point (or is that already the case? ).

 

[KSC]

I don't disagree that the $20k LHR fare bronze flyer deserves better than the abysmal SYD and MEL J lounges, but what is your proposed solution?

The solution is to elevate the business lounge offering. With the refurb to happen and rethinking of the catering offerings, hopefully this happens. I have enjoyed the Melbourne business domestic lounge offering and if something of similar standard can be replicated in the international business lounge, I would be pretty happy.

Nothing wrong with mass catering buffet options, many hotels do this well.

As a lifetime QF bronze expert who pays for J from my own points, cash or livers, if the lounge is comfortable, clean, I can have a shower and have some nice tasting mass catering food options, with a decent 'special of the day' cook to order I would be quite happy.

Soft touches like a nice view and not in a dungeon (Melbourne), I would not have much fomo for a first lounge.

 

[jase05]

How much of that 11% is the world's best J market?

Once carriers like QR only fly J, and thus make J even better, I don't think BA will be able to compete. Maybe it will be branded as F but sold at the J price point (or is that already the case? ).

My understanding is that QR whilst getting rid of long haul F will continue to market their ME flights as F (yes I know it’s not a proper F)

 

[Fergo747]

Perfect solution IMO would be a three lounge strategy:

1. True F-lounge for F/CL/P1
2. J Lounge (akin to today's F-lounge) for paid J/WP
3. QF lounge (akin to today's J-lounge) for upgraded J, SG, QP and lounge invites

The above is really quite similar to the domestic set up with CL/J/QP.

Given that three lounges is unlikely to be commercially viable given the cost of maintaining a third lounge for a relatively small number of pax (referring to the 'True F-lounge) the two options are to:

a) have 1. from above as a separate space in 2. (similar to the AKL cupboard or Concord lounge)
b) have a two lounge strategy which is F-lounge for F/paid-J/CL/P1/WP and a J-lounge for upgraded J/SG/QP/lounge invites

 

[justinbrett]

a) have 1. from above as a separate space in 2. (similar to the AKL cupboard or Concord lounge)

That is how it already is, there is a F/P1/CL area sectioned off with velvet rope.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I read BA has 11% of the world’s first class market, second behind EK’s 30%. I think BA F must be here to stay? Plenty of money in the UK to support it?

I would say there is zero chance of BA doing away with long haul F. It makes money for them and is a prestige thing.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Perfect solution IMO would be a three lounge strategy:

1. True F-lounge for F/CL/P1
2. J Lounge (akin to today's F-lounge) for paid J/WP
3. QF lounge (akin to today's J-lounge) for upgraded J, SG, QP and lounge invites

The above is really quite similar to the domestic set up with CL/J/QP.

Given that three lounges is unlikely to be commercially viable given the cost of maintaining a third lounge for a relatively small number of pax (referring to the 'True F-lounge) the two options are to:

a) have 1. from above as a separate space in 2. (similar to the AKL cupboard or Concord lounge)
b) have a two lounge strategy which is F-lounge for F/paid-J/CL/P1/WP and a J-lounge for upgraded J/SG/QP/lounge invites

Agree with most of this, but not the bit about different lounges for J pax, depending on whether paid or award/upgrade. That's a cancer that we don't need spreading. "Class-of-service" access should be as the name says - dependent on class of service, not how you paid for the ticket. Because if that happens, the next 'enhancement' will be those travelling on full J get a better lounge than those travelling on D or I.

 

[tdimdad]

Are the coffees produced by the barista better than those produced by the machine? I am not so sure about that. I would argue that it is the beans and milk used that determine coffee quality versus whether a barista was involved. I've had better coffee produced from my Nespresso machine than lattes at some cafes.

If you ever have had an espresso machine at home and trialled different beans & grounds, you'd know how huge the variability is. On my best mornings, I managed to be on par with a stellar barista (Treasury Casino, Brisbane) but never managed to solidify that as a consistent routine. Most times my home brew was mediocre, even when using good beans & grinder settings and trying to do everything well.

The best thing in automated coffee and pods is the consistency and speed - you know what to expect every single time. But none of those that I've come across have reached even close to the level of a good barista with a decent machine & materials to work with.

 

[justinbrett]

I would say there is zero chance of BA doing away with long haul F. It makes money for them and is a prestige thing.

But looking at the SYD-LHR route, BA F is being sold closer to QF/EK J prices; and with all the jokes about BA F being the worlds best J - it does raise the question is it F just because the airline says it is?

The US will be in a weird situation where "First" is associated with domestic recliner seats and "Business" associated with the only long haul lie flat, almost switching the two classes around - as is the case on Euro rail where Business class is superior to First.

 

[SYD]

F is dead anyway. QF might retain it for sunrise, but could well be the only oneworld F pax at SYD/MEL. QR have said no, AA have said no, I'm sure BA will drop it soon.

BTW, EK 1st PAX (EK or QF code) can access SYD / MEL QF First Lounges also - there’s a few of those!

I know someone here is going to pipe up that the SYD EK lounge is better - fine, head over there and free up a seat in the F lounge for the rest of us .

Couple of options….

(a) have a first class lounge for first class, and upgrade the other lounge to business class standard. CX does this rather well. The base level of lounge has champagne as standard for example.

That’s how it used to be. A smaller shoebox space for with nicer finger food. A relic of the past could still be seen in AKL.

(b) repurpose the first class lounge to business class, given the tiny number of actual F pax, and carve out a separate experience within that lounge for F… separate area, dining room etc. Like AA had for flagship first dining at JFK until recently. The Flagship liu gel was already excellent quality, the separate dining added the extra for F. Spa treatments could also be a distinguishing factor.

The SYD F Lounge was always intended to be a First / OWE Lounge - that’s why it’s sooo big. Yes, it can still get crowded. I wonder if that’s actually a function of the EK tie up? Towards the end, it replaced 1x BA (that still operates) with 3 to 4 daily SYD-DXB flights.

Anyone without F Lounge privileges possibly knows to go to the EK lounge over the QF J lounge but I imagine a lot of QF WP and EK equivalents will gravitate to QF F.

 

[justinbrett]

BTW, EK 1st PAX (EK or QF code) can access SYD / MEL QF First Lounges also - there’s a few of those!

But EK isn't in oneworld... yet

 

[SYD]

But EK isn't in oneworld... yet

No, but they have a lot of 1st PAX every day ex SYD.

Oh, meant to say perhaps QF could follow some airlines and not allow F/J reward PAX into lounges unless they have status. That’ll throw a cat amongst pigeons in card churner land .

 

[Fergo747]

That is how it already is, there is a F/P1/CL area sectioned off with velvet rope.

Yes, but it's not consistently applied from my own experience and I wouldn't say that the offering is better even if you get into that area. In my scenario of a lounge within a lounge there should be more premium offerings of food and booze etc. (and don't mention that rubbish menu that they currently have in the F-lounge for the roped off area).

Agree with most of this, but not the bit about different lounges for J pax, depending on whether paid or award/upgrade. That's a cancer that we don't need spreading. "Class-of-service" access should be as the name says - dependent on class of service, not how you paid for the ticket. Because if that happens, the next 'enhancement' will be those travelling on full J get a better lounge than those travelling on D or I.

I don't disagree with your sentiments about not a separate lounge, however I do feel that it's currently a pretty pathetic offering for any J-class pax that have paid full freight for a ticket (was discussed up thread when comparing a pax on a full J to LHR being in the J-lounge vs a jetstar pax getting into the F-Lounge).

 

[RichardMEL]

Brings me to my point, get rid of Vittoria coffee and start showcasing some better Australian specialty coffee like Market Lane.

It actually surprised a bit when the new J lounge was redone and before we knew about the Spice Bar that a component of the lounge was not some sort of specialty coffee selection or offering - nothing more Melbourne than coffee culture. Not that I am complaining about the Spice Bar in any way, but it does surprise a bit. I suppose it comes down to cost and logistics, but would have been cool.

 

[RichardMEL]

The team at MEL domestic who I know to some degree consistently make great coffee (given the beans they have to work with). No machine will ever come close.

And yeah the roped off area in SYD F is consistently inconstently(tm) applied also in my experience. Certainly as P1 I've been left to fend for myself more than once - and not once walked into the roped off area. Not that I worry too much about it as long as I get a seat and decent service.. but as usual with QF there's the intent, and then there's the execution....

 

[justinbrett]

I might be crazy but I thought the point of flying F is to get F food on the plane...