Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth)-Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soar

[moa999]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

The $25-45m figures stagger me - for a small reconfiguration and customs facilities.

I'd also think Qantas would move all QF/JQ international flights not just PER-LHR.. and query if you'd move EK as well, although that would be much more expensive given aircraft types.

 

[baggyred]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Surely some agreement can be made. The ability for Qantas to consolidate on the Western side gives it a leg up for no other reason then saving 15 minutes getting to and from the airport. Would be brilliant to have JQ and QFi housed on the western side (from a Perth perspective)!

For WA - surely people routing through Perth both ways is a good thing - and the potential for it to be more than just LHR as well.

Split the cost and be on with it!

 

[baggyred]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

The $25-45m figures stagger me - for a small reconfiguration and customs facilities.

I'd also think Qantas would move all QF/JQ international flights not just PER-LHR.. and query if you'd move EK as well, although that would be much more expensive given aircraft types.

Why given the aircraft? Just the volume on the A380 to process?

 

[Pleb Status]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Its a bit more complicated than calling it corporate welfare. The airline is not the only one to potentially benefit from this pivot to a "western hub". WA will/could also benefit. Its called infrastructure. Though its true that the airline should have thought this out a bit better before lots of $$ were sunk into the international terminal. Both parties seem to be in a standoff at the moment but in the end bussing passengers is problematic. Better to do it right the first time.

The long term plan is to move QF over to the international side of the airport, so any work at the existing QF terminal would be a short term 'stop gap' measure.

The commitment of QFi to WA is questionable also. It was not that long ago that there was not a single QFi flight operating from WA. As the business case for PER-LHR-PER is rubbery at best, QFi could pull out of the route in twelve months leaving the Government spending a lot of money for nothing. PER airport know this so that is why they have said no to QF.

 

[moa999]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Why given the aircraft? Just the volume on the A380 to process?

New gates to support A380 aircraft would be needed.(ICAO cat 7)

Would have thought existing 330 gates could be used for 787

 

[Happy Trails]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Why given the aircraft? Just the volume on the A380 to process?

New gates to support A380 aircraft would be needed.(ICAO cat 7)

Would have thought existing 330 gates could be used for 787

ISTR that a lot of time and money was spent widening taxiways to accommodate the A380.
Don't know if that included the dom side of the airport.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

The long term plan is to move QF over to the international side of the airport, so any work at the existing QF terminal would be a short term 'stop gap' measure.

and its just that - a long term plan - how any years away???

The commitment of QFi to WA is questionable also. It was not that long ago that there was not a single QFi flight operating from WA. As the business case for PER-LHR-PER is rubbery at best, QFi could pull out of the route in twelve months leaving the Government spending a lot of money for nothing. PER airport know this so that is why they have said no to QF.

Stop gap measures are done all the time. in a project for the airport that will cost over 1 billion - 20 million to re-fit the existing terminal for several years would give them a return.

 

[moa999]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

and its just that - a long term plan - how any years away???

No fixed date. And with the downturn of the mining boom it could be a long time off.
Obviously QF decided it was far enough away to allow investment in a new domestic lounge

 

[codash1099]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

If they want to avoid bussing pax, why not run it all through T1? It won't be the first time that domestic legs have bee accommodated at an international terminal.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

If they want to avoid bussing pax, why not run it all through T1? It won't be the first time that domestic legs have bee accommodated at an international terminal.

No room?? no facilities? if they can't move the domestic ops over to the other side then moving the limited INT ops to the DOM side makes much more sense.

 

[Pleb Status]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Stop gap measures are done all the time. in a project for the airport that will cost over 1 billion - 20 million to re-fit the existing terminal for several years would give them a return.

If QF were offering a reasonable return on investment, I would assume Perth Airport would jump at the chance to satisfy their biggest single airline customer. However, as it would appear that QF are now going cap in hand to the WA Government, I guess they are not.

Assuming QF were to fly SYD-PER T1-LHR, how many pax are actually going to transfer from other QF flights anyway? I would assume at least half of the 236 pax would be PER O&D. More would transit from/through SYD, leaving probably less than 50 pax/day to bus over for each flight. It has not been much of an issue to date for QF regional WA pax connecting to international flights and it is done now in SYD and BNE as well.

Also, if the proposed flight is going to be such a big thing for WA tourism (hence the cap in hand), those passengers will be leaving the airport in any case so will end up transferring themselves between terminals.

I agree that it would be good for QF to move their international flights to T3/T4 but QF have to pay for it (in full), not the WA taxpayer.

 

[flightobserver]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Assuming QF were to fly SYD-PER T1-LHR, how many pax are actually going to transfer from other QF flights anyway? I would assume at least half of the 236 pax would be PER O&D. More would transit from/through SYD, leaving probably less than 50 pax/day to bus over for each flight. It has not been much of an issue to date for QF regional WA pax connecting to international flights and it is done now in SYD and BNE as well.

I don't think you're far off the mark, Pleb Status. I did an analysis of the BITRE statistics from August 2014 to 2016 to look at the viability of PER-LON a couple of weeks ago and I calculated that QF1 carried 54% of all the Qantas metal passengers flying directly to London. The monthly average of Qantas metal passengers from Australia to London was 12,911. Assuming 30 days/month, this means there are approximately 232 passengers daily flying to London directly on QF1. Notice how this 232 figure is very close to the 236 seat count of the 787.

BITRE doesn't tell you whether these London QF1 passengers originated from Sydney or another city, but I would hazard a guess that 70% of the London-bound QF1 passengers (i.e. 162 passengers) came from Sydney or a city that is connected to Sydney but not Perth. Assuming all London QF1 passengers are moved to the PER-LON flight, this leaves 70 passengers that would need to be bussed over from the domestic terminal.

 

[Altair]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

If QF were offering a reasonable return on investment, I would assume Perth Airport would jump at the chance to satisfy their biggest single airline customer. However, as it would appear that QF are now going cap in hand to the WA Government, I guess they are not.
......
I agree that it would be good for QF to move their international flights to T3/T4 but QF have to pay for it (in full), not the WA taxpayer.

But QF do not own the terminal the airport does. QF has gone to the airport with a proposal which it turned down. The airport would have done its own analysis and see if the capital investment would have received a good return from the increased lease payments and higher passenger movement revenue. Clearly the airport did not see and told QF to bus the passengers over.

 

[cwphoto]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I don't see the big deal with buses. Adds a small delay, but with good planning it works fine. Have done T3-T1 in SYD and works fine.

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

Never done a T3/T4 transfer to T1 at PER. Do transfers like this travel on the road (SYD) or across the tarmac (LAX)

 

[cwphoto]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

SYD is airside too like LAX.

Never done a T3/T4 transfer to T1 at PER. Do transfers like this travel on the road (SYD) or across the tarmac (LAX)

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I don't see the big deal with buses. Adds a small delay, but with good planning it works fine. Have done T3-T1 in SYD and works fine.

I agree about the bus transfer in SYD.

I have done the bus transfer in PTH and it seemed to take 20mins just for the bus ride excluding any waiting time. It seemed that we drove around the whole airfield. I remember this clearly as I was expecting a trip similar to SYD and was very surprised when I eventually got to the PTH domestic terminal.

 

[dajop]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I have done the bus transfer in PTH and it seemed to take 20mins just for the bus ride excluding any waiting time. It seemed that we drove around the whole airfield. I remember this clearly as I was expecting a trip similar to SYD and was very surprised when I eventually got to the PTH domestic terminal.

Do they also still require you to cart your own luggage to/from bus when traveling intl->Dom or is there now a luggage drop like SYD? My sister was less than impressed with the b*s transfer when she did it a few years ago with a 3yo and 1.5 yo in tow ...

 

[Quickstatus]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

SYD is airside too like LAX.

Dom-INT or Vica versa are by their nature cannot be airside.

Airside means all security/customs procedures have been completed

Though in some countries like the USA leaving the country does not require direct customs and immigration interaction

 

[cwphoto]

Re: Qantas: non-stop Australia (Perth) -Europe (London) Boeing 787 flights set to soa

I was generalising for non-public road xfer.

Dom-INT or Vica versa are by their nature cannot be airside.

Airside means all security/customs procedures have been completed

Though in some countries like the USA leaving the country does not require direct customs and immigration interaction