Qantas: 'one of the worst airlines in the free world'

[opusman]

Please. Attack the argument and not the person!

I saw no attack.

 

[juddles]

Please. Attack the argument and not the person!

Are you referring to him or me?

It is normal that in communication we all interpret things in a way that is affected by pre-conceived thoughts or opinions. I don't think I ever "attacked" him.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

For the record, and hopefully, unlike love_the_life, my real actual last post in this thread , I admit I never bothered to read SFO's actual blog. Don't have the time. There are so many thousands of bloggers with experience , so many "fortunate to get millions of points", etc, that it would just be wasting my time.

(...)

I suspect it will be short-lived - the money and fame on the internet is on sheer numbers, and so FT is a better use of his time.

And yet the JohnKization and Pushkafication of this site is all about clicks, and all the actual useful content gets monetized...

 

[juddles]

Have a look. Most of it is not about Qantas!

RooFlyer, I was not going to, as I doubt I will learn anything inspiring, but in deference to my esteem of you, I will.....

And yet the JohnKization and Pushkafication of this site is all about clicks, and all the actual useful content gets monetized...

Hang on RooFlyer, as I posted my last thing I saw this comment. What does this mean?? I am struggling to get up to speed and understand it. I love those new terms JohnKization and Pushkafication, truly. But that stuff about monetization of useful content?

BTW, am reading his TR. Will post comments as I go.

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Strangely in the first few bits he declared that the LAX Qantas First lounge was his favorite in the USA?? Am confused from the beginning. His favorite USA lounge is run by the airline he considers "worst of the free world"??

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He further states that he is in that lounge often due to his BA status - the airline he rates even lower than Qantas??

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I love his comment after the first main flight to Australia. After comparing it to AA, he states " If it was just me, I wouldn't fly either of them but go with an Asian or Gulf connection on a real airline."

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This intrigues me, as coming from the person who raises the concept of "free-world airlines"

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I agree with the misgivings of the bar only opening at midday. Apart from what is probably known here of my love for beverages, I do really think that this is bad. When you travel internationally your body clock is different. I may want a bourbon at 8am. Because it is evening to me. This is something Qantas lounges suck at, IMHO.

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Ok, now using up minutes of my life reading about the tassie thing. He seems quite happy with food / accomodation, etc. And also happy to use photos of strangers.

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Not sure why the aircraft simulator got so much time. Doing foreign routes in a TR about Tasmania?

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I am sure all those myriad photos would be awe inspiring to anyone who had never seen a cliff before, or rocks, or the ocean.....

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Am re-reading what seems to be the important part - the lounge experience. Yes, there is cough on the floor. But I have seen that in many lounges at certain times, even though they are pristine at others. But suggesting "Aussies are slobs"?? That is a tad distasteful. As for people "jockeying for position for the slops offerred", my experience of so many USA lounges is that people are jockeying for mere pretzels....

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Just trawling through the Hamilton Island stuff - yet again he reverts to living the good life, but the photos and commentary are not exactly inspiring.

 

[Choosethedrew]

He further states that he is in that lounge often due to his BA status - the airline he rates even lower than Qantas??

No doubt he earns status on BA because it affords him privileges on an airline he uses more regularly. It’s very commonplace to do that.

I see you’re now going through his report making random pops at the OP. This reflects more on you than him as I remain mystified as to how he has irked you so much.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

I see you’re now going through his report making random pops at the OP. This reflects more on you than him as I remain mystified as to how he has irked you so much.

Yep. I doubt juddles would like to have his reflections critiqued in the same fashion.

 

[juddles]

Damn. Got to the end of the link posted at the start of this thread and it has stopped loading - so I cannot actually see the infamous "worst of the free world" comment.

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All in all the parts of his TR that i saw seem to be in distinct phases. He loves showing how he indulges, and praises same, but he also seems to have had a very bad day on that lounge visit. All in all it seems a standard review - designed for the masses. Nothing leapt out at me as being special - we have people here on AFF that do far more inspiring (IMHO) TR's. But for other folk, no doubt they love that stuff. My take on this is that he saw that the overall TR was bland, so needed to spice it up with something controversial.

Good on him!

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....I see you’re now going through his report making random pops at the OP. This reflects more on you than him as I remain mystified as to how he has irked you so much....

He has not irked me. I am just having fun. Please do not be mystified.

---

Yep. I doubt juddles would like to have his reflections critiqued in the same fashion.

On the contrary - please critique. That is what they are there for.

 

[RooFlyer]

And yet the JohnKization and Pushkafication of this site is all about clicks, and all the actual useful content gets monetized...

Hang on RooFlyer, as I posted my last thing I saw this comment. What does this mean?? I am struggling to get up to speed and understand it. I love those new terms JohnKization and Pushkafication, truly. But that stuff about monetization of useful content?

I have absolutely no idea but I'll hazard a guess that its a comment on the site being a commercial one.

Shock, horror!

All in all the parts of his TR that i saw seem to be in distinct phases. He loves showing how he indulges, and praises same, but he also seems to have had a very bad day on that lounge visit. All in all it seems a standard review - designed for the masses.

IIRC the 'bad lounge day' started at OMG o'clock, at Hobart airport, at the uber-coughpy Qantas Club there. So totally understandable!!

I know many of my trip reports start there, and it puts me in a bad frame of mind for the rest of the day. Like here.

 

[drron]

Yep. I doubt juddles would like to have his reflections critiqued in the same fashion.

Well you obviously have never come across this thread or never bothered reading it-
juddles' reflections
Juddles opens himself up publicly.
How about you try something similiar.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...we also forgive posts that are flavoured by that experience on the day.

But I want to help you by attempting to explain a few things you seem to have failed to grasp in a cultural sense. Let me explain....

we value modesty far more than self-aggrandizement.

To educate yourself more about Australia, please look up the meaning of the expression "whoopty doo"

you will find in our small forum people that make your travels look like a pauper's weekender.

but you are not talking to a bunch of peasants that will hang off the every word of a "double Emerald" - Aussies despise pretentious people.

If you want to do that, get involved in the other travel forums and social media tailored to half-wits

I admit I never bothered to read SFO's actual blog. Don't have the time. There are so many thousands of bloggers with experience , so many "fortunate to get millions of points", etc, that it would just be wasting my time.


Kudos to him to grace our site with his visit

the money and fame on the internet is on sheer numbers, and so FT is a better use of his time.

...but the photos and commentary are not exactly inspiring.

Nothing leapt out at me as being special - we have people here on AFF that do far more inspiring (IMHO) TR's. But for other folk, no doubt they love that stuff. My take on this is that he saw that the overall TR was bland, so needed to spice it up with something controversial.

Are you referring to him or me?

It is normal that in communication we all interpret things in a way that is affected by pre-conceived thoughts or opinions. I don't think I ever "attacked" him.

Language that is belittling, condescending, patronizing and mocking. All of those are 'attacking' the poster. And you delivered those in spades. Yes, you dressed up the quotes with a bit of narrative on either side, but your intentions seem clear to dismiss the poster based on their attributes and presumed status or entitlement rather than the validity of the observations they made.

 

[Scott K]

I have been trying to think what bothered me about this whole thing. It wasn't the blogger's attack on "our national flag carrier". Qantas is just a business really, and I don't have a particular affinity for them over someone else because they are 'Aussie' (Or as the blogger may say, Os-see). It wasn't the boastful American-ness of the whole thing either. Been there, seen that before. It's a thing.

When it comes down to it, I think it's because the blogger's personality is so different to mine that I simply can't find myself relating.

I get that the internet is full of hyper-critical agents that think everything is either the absolute-best-amazingest-ever or the absolute-worst-in-the-world. Naturally everyone that feels the need to be hypercritical has some factor that qualifies them to why their opinion is so important. Great... I get that. And as a blogger it pays to say everything is rubbish too. Just look at YouTube. It is full of videos slagging off products purely to earn bias-confirming clicks from people wanting to hear someone else say what they think, just to confirm their opinion.

We've talked pages and pages about the J lounge in Sydney being dirty. I even saw someone talking about the new lounge in Melbourne's carpets already looking worn. But none of this matches my own personal experience. I get that, different times, different factors. Sure.

But what really irked me about this posting, and why I say it is because our personalities are so divergent, is that when I see something I don't like that could be easily fixed, I don't jump onto the internet and make a song and dance about it. Whenever I've been in a position where I've seen cough spilled like that all over a lounge, I've drawn attention to the problem to whoever is at the desk, or to a cleaner personally. I just think a quick 'hey, I know you're busy mopping the showers but the family that were just over that table have left it a bit of a bomb-site. I hope you get time to sort it soon' is better than jumping online and telling everyone that you've earned a lot of points through your business and because of that you're qualified to tell everyone that an airline is bad because the floors of a lounge were dirty, and that it offended you so much that you couldn't give the feedback to the company, or the people working there directly, and would rather do it publicly online.

Maybe I have too much empathy for the people working hard in the company in many other areas to have them besmirched because the lowest paid members of their community haven't done a job that is up to the standard of someone else. I'm sure there's plenty of people whose feelings are totally different to mine, too. The blogger hasn't been to Qantas J often enough to qualify that this mess is the norm but has made an assumption that it is. Something that some of our members here have been happy to back up. I'm just not keen on dragging something down for online likes. I'd rather give my feedback to the company and then judge by how they respond.

 

[zenyattamondatta]

Well you obviously have never come across this thread or never bothered reading it-

Ah yes, the one where he writes:

here on AFF I have a select few who enjoy what I write, but am also exposed to the inevitable haters that exist on any forum. Something I simply dislike and have no time for.

 

[ozjuice]

I really enjoyed the whole TR to be honest.

 

[Ausbt]

Whining about the bar being closed. Hope he/she tipped decently once it opened.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have been trying to think what bothered me about this whole thing. It wasn't the blogger's attack on "our national flag carrier". Qantas is just a business really, and I don't have a particular affinity for them over someone else because they are 'Aussie' (Or as the blogger may say, Os-see). It wasn't the boastful American-ness of the whole thing either. Been there, seen that before. It's a thing.

When it comes down to it, I think it's because the blogger's personality is so different to mine that I simply can't find myself relating.

I get that the internet is full of hyper-critical agents that think everything is either the absolute-best-amazingest-ever or the absolute-worst-in-the-world. Naturally everyone that feels the need to be hypercritical has some factor that qualifies them to why their opinion is so important. Great... I get that. And as a blogger it pays to say everything is rubbish too. Just look at YouTube. It is full of videos slagging off products purely to earn bias-confirming clicks from people wanting to hear someone else say what they think, just to confirm their opinion.

We've talked pages and pages about the J lounge in Sydney being dirty. I even saw someone talking about the new lounge in Melbourne's carpets already looking worn. But none of this matches my own personal experience. I get that, different times, different factors. Sure.

But what really irked me about this posting, and why I say it is because our personalities are so divergent, is that when I see something I don't like that could be easily fixed, I don't jump onto the internet and make a song and dance about it. Whenever I've been in a position where I've seen cough spilled like that all over a lounge, I've drawn attention to the problem to whoever is at the desk, or to a cleaner personally. I just think a quick 'hey, I know you're busy mopping the showers but the family that were just over that table have left it a bit of a bomb-site. I hope you get time to sort it soon' is better than jumping online and telling everyone that you've earned a lot of points through your business and because of that you're qualified to tell everyone that an airline is bad because the floors of a lounge were dirty, and that it offended you so much that you couldn't give the feedback to the company, or the people working there directly, and would rather do it publicly online.

Maybe I have too much empathy for the people working hard in the company in many other areas to have them besmirched because the lowest paid members of their community haven't done a job that is up to the standard of someone else. I'm sure there's plenty of people whose feelings are totally different to mine, too. The blogger hasn't been to Qantas J often enough to qualify that this mess is the norm but has made an assumption that it is. Something that some of our members here have been happy to back up. I'm just not keen on dragging something down for online likes. I'd rather give my feedback to the company and then judge by how they respond.

SFO77’s comments are not directed towards an individual in the lounge... it is a reflection on the airline, as a company, not providing enough staff to provide a premium product.

If Qantas was to see this as an individual staff performance issue, perhaps that would actually add weight to the ‘world’s worst’ moniker (unless there really is a staff performance issue, but generally the staff seem pretty busy).

So i don’t see this as needing any empathy for the workers per se.

What is puzzling is that you say you have empathy for the lowly paid, but would have no trouble walking up to them saying ‘when you’ve finished mopping out the showers can you please clean over here’?

The OP writes many of these trip reports. So this wasn’t in lieu of making a complaint about the state of the lounge. That was just an observation as part of the overall experience.

 

[drron]

I am pretty sure that Scott K would end the request as I would with a thank you.I always use those 2 words if a staff member cleans up the table I am at.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thank you, SFO777, for coming on and giving a reasonable (and respectful) response on this thread.

We were flying First Class and indeed there is no nonstop (First Class) competition on the route.

I suggest then that you edit your post to clarify your meaning.


I think most of your comments were valid and agree that QF F is hardly the best product in the skies (and as a BA Gold you'd have enough experience of their product too I'm sure ).

I guess though that your hyperbole about QF being one of the worst airlines(etc) may well have been for clickbait(and hey, it worked with us ) ) but again you seem to have implied from your respoinse that that is mostly due to the F experience rather than overall (though honestly the lounge experiences weren't great and your dislike of the 717 J seat, poor food and no wifi) would certainly seem to suggest overall? I'm a little confused.

re wifi it is rolled out on a lot of 737's and some 330's but I think QF really missed the boat in not spending the $$$ to have it on the 787's.. poor choice there. Hope someone realises this and retrofits. Specially for flights like MEL-LAX and PER-LHR.

Again, I appreciate a lack of local knowledge can be difficult and it's unfair to criticise on that level although I will say this re lounges and so on.. when I fly to or through unfamiliar airports I usually do my research to know what my options are (eg: I am flying AA out of ATL soon, so I know there's a (small) AAdmirals club there at the T gates) and further in other locations, specially international, I know if, as a OWE, there's a F lounge or partner like CX or AY or whoever I can access. That's just me. There's no problem with asking of course as you did. I guess fr me personally Ind' never expect a "First" lounge in a domestic only termoinal but again that could well just be experience/naming/lack of local knowledge.

And actually I value more negative reviews and pictures of places and situations - specially hotels - when i am researching... I have recently been looking at MIA properties and rather than reading endless compliments about the barkeep or how nice the pool area is, it's useful to know about things like slow elevators, maybe mould in bathrooms, poor security etc... so I have no problem with negative reviews and find them perhaps more useful than positive.. I, like others though, think the title was over the top.

but.. it's your blog and for you to write as you please - which you do

thank you again for the consered response. It really IS appreciated

 

[RichardMEL]

btw re the lounge situation, comparisions with CX (and other) busy lounges etc. I've been in SYD J (and others) when they've come around with a vacuum. It does happen (lol)... the timing of SFO777's visit was obviously poor given a) holiday period and b)just post peak rush. Not that it excuses it, but it goes some way to explain some of it.

I also agree with a comment earlier about the ridiculous low tables with the chairs there. Honestly it's a poor set up to sit and eat something more than sip a coffee or beer. You take a few of those savory pastry type things along with the party pies in the arfternoon and you're asking for flakes everywhere unless you hold the plate as you eat (same with other patries and various foods/snacks). I don't know what the solution is, because there's just not enough space at the sit down tables (MEL dom J has more space for this imho). It's not a very good design.

Though honestly there IS a "grub" factor here. We've all seen it and it's embarassing to those of us with some manners. It's one thing to leave a dirty plate and cup/glass at the table when you leave (I would not expect people to go find one of the clean up carts themselves) - and I do this - it's another thing to drop(and leave) napkins and other rubbish all over the floor by one's seat.

Yes, the look and care of the lounge is the operators (and owners) responsibility.. but we all play a (small) part as patrons too.

 

[eastwest101]

Unlike some other critics - I read the full review that SFO77 posted on Flyertalk as well as this thread before I came on here to offer some of my opinions.

As others have mentioned - the TR was reasonably balanced and a typical cross section of what a person doing all of that (and a lot of the TR isn't even QF related material) would have seen that trip, this isn't the first time that SFO777 has flown and they do have numerous other TRs on Flyertalk but like all reviews is a mixture of facts and opinions. The comment about the 'among the worst airlines in the free world' was after an OMG 'oclock start at the under-whelming Qantas Club in Hobart, followed by what a lot of people agree was a dirtier/untidier than usual J lounge in Sydney (due to the Sydney QC being closed) and a catering fail on their Sydney to Hamilton Is flight so may come across as a bit 'off the cuff" to some, but maybe not totally surprising.

A lot of these things are under the control of Qantas (except maybe the pitiful Hobart airport terminal!), Qantas and their contractors choose to close facilities in Sydney and direct a lot of traffic to lounges that aren't designed or staffed for it, Qantas is in control of the cleanliness of its aircraft and lounges, Qantas chose to advertise premium boarding and not implement it properly, Qantas is in charge of its own catering in both Y and J class and SFO777 has picked up a few things in that TR that Qantas sometimes under-performs at - as indeed many of us here in Australia have also identified, and hence some of the very large threads on this forum such as:

Qantas Domestic & International Business Class meals/menus

and

Is QF First lounge open Xmas Day and J lounge closures

and this epic :

Priority boarding on QF domestic - what is the story?


As far as Qantas is concerned - they got a few bouquets and a few brickbats from a person whom has seen their fair share of airlines and lounges and some people seem to have been a bit defensive about some of the criticism directed at Qantas.

I think some overall perspective is required as the OP obviously planned a fairly premium priced holiday and destinations and got some great experiences and memories but there were some fair criticisms of average or poor service in some cases.

 

[get me outta here]

Last time I rang AA and asked for the flight at 1400 I was told by a supercilious voice to speak English.
Apparently 2pm was what I was supposed to say, just in case some overseas people reading this wonder what the problem was.

• ... and if you are lucky you'll get someone you can understand. I couldn't the other day when I rang AA.