Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[wandering_fred]

But will Project Sunrise and its related aircraft acquisition allow the return of the Perth Tokyo flights?
If not I would rather connect through CNS than SYD.... Though CX has had some reasonable Y cabin fares recently....
Which given the fare codes on those they may or may not assist retention of QFF lounge access supporting wandering
Fred

 

[elanshin]

But will Project Sunrise and its related aircraft acquisition allow the return of the Perth Tokyo flights?
If not I would rather connect through CNS than SYD.... Though CX has had some reasonable Y cabin fares recently....
Which given the fare codes on those they may or may not assist retention of QFF lounge access supporting wandering
Fred

The a350-1000 not likely as these aircrafts don't replace routes but generate previously not possible routes. The only possibility is it frees up the current qf3/4 syd -akl- jfk route.

The additional a350-900 and b787-10s in the future may see possibly this addition if Tokyo continues to remain a top destination.

There are many routes QF would like to run but whether PER - NRT is one remains to be seen.

 

[Himeno]

There are many routes QF would like to run but whether PER - NRT is one remains to be seen.

PER-NRT was however the last non SYD Japan route that QF cut back in the early 2010s. They cut MEL-NRT in 2008 with the GFC and had removed the BNE-NRT flight to codeshare on the JL NRT-BNE flight (which JL removed during their bankruptcy restructure, then QF and JL weren't allowed to codeshare on their non stop JP-AU flights after they started increasing flights again - which is why they now codeshare via SIN).

It was the phase out of the 767s and the 2011 earthquake which killed off the QF PER-NRT flight.

 

[Sabot]

The east coast never remembers that people actually live in Perth. Airlines schedules, sports fixtures, concert tours, etc. To live in Perth is to suffer in paradise.

As for the actual discussion about ports in Europe; given that Qantas already serves three locations direct from Perth I can't really see it going backwards from there. I know that the tiff with Perth Airport really put the brakes on for a while, but there appears to be progress there. And once everything is consolidated to T1 I think we'll see a steady increase improvements in services available. It might not be all Qantas/all Europe, but adding the Qantas domestic network as the on-flow for international arrivals gives incoming airlines some good flexibility. And there's the bonus of not having to transit a 3rd country for travelers that want to go to England, France, Italy. While nominally you don't need to actually go into [Insert_Country_Here], there may be the risk-averse "Well if either flight gets delayed for some reason I may need to stay - which includes going through immigration in the transit country". This might not describe you, but I know people who think this way.

And when traveling to east-coast Canada from Perth I try to avoid transiting in the US if I can. The US is a special case, I know, but the point is that I can understand the sentiment.

I have no doubt that as aircraft fuel efficiency continues to climb other carriers will also see an attraction of having a direct-to-Aus route via Perth without having to buy ultra-specialised aircraft to fulfill the requirement.

AJ was on record in the past for QF9/10 that the vast majority of pax are originating/terminating in Perth anyway, so it has been viable sans-Melbourne for a long time. PER-FCO clearly does its job. Time will tell for PER-CDG, especially after the Olympics. I don't see Project Sunrise displacing any of these in the short term. SYD-LHR direct and the SYD-SIN-LHR route will just offer more options to get to Sydney. And if enough people have the same "I'll never fly to Perth under pain of death" attitude as some posters here then those people were never going to use the existing routes anyway. For those types of flyers Project Sunrise isn't competing with the Perth routes. It's competing with any of the one-stop-in-Asia-or-ME routes.

No one outside of European scaffolders wants to go to Perth. An extra 4 - 5 hours per trip?

Yucky.

 

[Sabot]

PER/LHR sustained by a lot of corporate traffic in J (BHP, S32, RIO etc), will be interesting to see how the CDG flights shape up without the same amount of corporate premium traffic.

People actually want to go to France for things other than work.

 

[elanshin]

People actually want to go to France for things other than work.

I'd say the same for London. Plenty of people visiting family.

 

[downgraded]

I'd say the same for London. Plenty of people visiting family.

Are you talking countries or cities? London isn't the UK. Hub and spoke lets ME3 serve Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle etc. all far more convenient for many than London. Since QF only has little planes departing PER they don't really need "plenty of people", just enough stuck on ones happy to go to big hubs in little planes. Similarly tracts of France are better served internationally by other airports such as Nice and Geneva (I know it's not France but it's a great destination airport for the French Alps).

 

[Cognac]

But will Project Sunrise and its related aircraft acquisition allow the return of the Perth Tokyo flights?
If not I would rather connect through CNS than SYD.... Though CX has had some reasonable Y cabin fares recently....
Which given the fare codes on those they may or may not assist retention of QFF lounge access supporting wandering
Fred

Would be nice. I'd much prefer non-stop to Tokyo than having to connect in SIN/HKG/Some airport in Aus. I actually flew that 767 route before it was canned. I've made use of the ANA route, although they are taking that one off the table from April. I'm sure it's part of their calculus, but obviously they don't think it's justified at the moment, as convenient as it would be for me.

Once the A350s arrive, if they put the regular ones (or even some of the 787s) onto the SYD/MEL-HND/NRT routes they could easily run the A330s from PER instead. Maybe it's a slot limitation rather than a revenue limitation as well. The codeshare from SIN is basically exclusively for Perth customers seeing as no one on the east coast is going to dog leg hard for a transit in Singapore instead of going direct.

 

[OATEK]

Are you talking countries or cities? London isn't the UK. Hub and spoke lets ME3 serve Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle etc. all far more convenient for many than London. Since QF only has little planes departing PER they don't really need "plenty of people", just enough stuck on ones happy to go to big hubs in little planes. Similarly tracts of France are better served internationally by other airports such as Nice and Geneva (I know it's not France but it's a great destination airport for the French Alps).

While ME airlines do fly in to various other cities/airports, it is not always a direct big plane/little plane comparison. I have enjoyed EK flights to MAN and from LGW, but they are 2 class A380s, so no F or PE, but fine if you are in J like we were. It does seem that the smaller cities rely on volumes in Y more than the higher tiers. The QF A350s will be more than able to compete against 2 class A380s.

 

[downgraded]

it is not always a direct big plane/little plane comparison

I'd say it never is. The little(r) plane is just the enabler for QF (and others) to run long skinny routes. I'm saying that most Australians will still be better served by the plethora of hub/spoke routes that will get them closer to their destination in more comfort and with the same or less transits than the very niche model that Project Sunrise proposes - and probably more reliably as we've seen the challenges of service recovery when long skinny routes have a hiccup.

Personally one of the biggest issues with the PER transit is the QF lounge - being herded into a room with no windows is never a luxury move - skylights are NOT windows.

 

[elanshin]

Once the A350s arrive, if they put the regular ones (or even some of the 787s) onto the SYD/MEL-HND/NRT routes they could easily run the A330s from PER instead. Maybe it's a slot limitation rather than a revenue limitation as well. The codeshare from SIN is basically exclusively for Perth customers seeing as no one on the east coast is going to dog leg hard for a transit in Singapore instead of going direct.

I just took that route of HND - SYD via SIN. Hopped out had 3 meetings, back to Changi at 4pm changi and onto SYD.

My partners parents are about to do that too as it was cheaper. (JL codeshare though).

 

[Sabot]

I'd say the same for London. Plenty of people visiting family.

Not to derail the thread but having been there recently it's going to be a while before I'd bother to go back.

 

[Cognac]

I just took that route of HND - SYD via SIN. Hopped out had 3 meetings, back to Changi at 4pm changi and onto SYD.

My partners parents are about to do that too as it was cheaper. (JL codeshare though).

Nice. That is different though, given you had a reason to be in Singapore. How many people (who are booking with Qantas) are going to choose that route vs the direct flights offered by Qantas, JAL, or ANA though? People flying LCCs don't count as they are not competing on price here. I maintain that the JAL codeshare to Singapore is mainly for Perth flyers who don't have a choice but to connect somewhere. Might as well be Singapore.

 

[elanshin]

Nice. That is different though, given you had a reason to be in Singapore. How many people (who are booking with Qantas) are going to choose that route vs the direct flights offered by Qantas, JAL, or ANA though? People flying LCCs don't count as they are not competing on price here. I maintain that the JAL codeshare to Singapore is mainly for Perth flyers who don't have a choice but to connect somewhere. Might as well be Singapore.

As I just pointed out, my partners parents are just about to also go on tour to Japan with that route being on the return (HND - SIN - MEL). Not as QF codeshare but JL codeshare (code sharing QF38 back to MEL) because apparently it was the cheapest option on offer at flight center.

(yes flight center - but they had 25k in credits with them from covid cancellations).

 

[Himeno]

The codeshare from SIN is basically exclusively for Perth customers seeing as no one on the east coast is going to dog leg hard for a transit in Singapore instead of going direct.

I used the QF/JL codeshare via SIN in Jan on the way back from last trip. Better timing then the direct and better $$ (and let me use the SIN F lounge).

 

[Quickstatus]

The codeshare from SIN is basically exclusively for Perth customers seeing as no one on the east coast is going to dog leg hard for a transit in Singapore instead of going direct.

Sacre bleu! Isn't this the frequent flyer forum where "why fly direct when you can connect" is name of the game?

 

[p--and--t]

Whatever happened to them?

Natural disasters
Struggling economy
Poor exchange rate
Covid impacts

 

[Quickstatus]

Struggling economy

Yes
Economists talk of the "Lost decade" in the 1990s then the "Lost 20 years" in 2000s and they have continued with the "Lost 30 years" in the 2010's.
Inbound (to AU) Japanese tourism have not recovered since 2000.

The devaluation of the USD against other currencies including the ¥ as a result of the Plaza Accord was IMO the catalyst that eventually ended the economic miracle of post war japan. The resultant monetary easing by the BOJ for various reasons has continued to this day. (There are other reasons)

Inbound tourism to Japan on the other hand.....

 

[jrfsp]

In any case this situation is pretty far fetched. EK and QR simply wouldn't allow it. We've had conflicts in the region for decades and yes it impacts flight routes but there's usually a path somewhere.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/germanys-lufthansa-suspends-flights-tehran-amid-middle-east-crisis-2024-04-10/

Looks like aircraft starting to avoid middle east airspace. QF1/9 taking a northerly routing avoiding the gulf, BA doing the same.

 

[moa999]

Yes
Economists talk of the "Lost decade" in the 1990s then the "Lost 20 years" in 2000s and they have continued with the "Lost 30 years" in the 2010's.

Yep..Japan is a clear example that house prices don't go up forever, particularly if you don't have growth in productivity or labour force.