Qantas Project Sunrise goes ahead, 12 new A350-1000s ordered

[Melburnian1]

I wasn't sure whether to post in this or the 'SYD-AKL-JFK' QF3/4 area, and apologies if this has been raised before as I've not read this whole thread:

The (soon to be previous) QF CEO Mr Joyce is spruiking numerous alleged 'better sleep' features of Project Sunrise.

There's an idea in it that may well prove extremely unpopular with passengers: these flights are going to have the lights switched on for 10 consecutive hours.

This is supposedly to allow passengers to better adjust for their destination, but if one is departing JFK at say 1930 or 2100 hours, my guess is the vast majority of passengers would want to have a meal and then want the lights switched off say three hours into the flight.

I like to open the window shades/blinds (if manual operation is possible) and peer out, but many just want to sleep, and some want to do it the whole way.

Joyce says 'we provide eye shades'.

On what will be from 2025 more super long flights for which QFi will charge horrendously high fares, it ought not be dictating when passengers can even more feel like they're in some (mobile) prison with the lights blaring.

It's hard enough for lots of patrons to sleep in uncomfortable Y (and W!) seats on aircraft without making it close to impossible.

Another reason to avoid QFi!

 

[jpp42]

I agree that passengers won't like this, but I'm not sure it's that big a deal. On a 787 you need eyeshades anyway if it's daytime , due to the ineffective window dimming system, so I'm used to it (I guess the A350 has normal window shades). I personally use good eyeshades (not the cough ones from the amenity kits) and have no issues - it's more the disruption caused by the meal service that wakes me up.

 

[TheInsider]

Another reason to avoid QFi!

Righttt.....

 

[NM]

With 200+ people on an aircraft, there is no single "sleep/wake" schedule that will suite everyone. I applaud them for thinking about it and at least trying something different.

 

[milehighclub]

Another reason to avoid QFi!

As if you need another one to bash the airline you hate so much.

Good on them for trying something new. If the feedback is not well received, guess what, lights can be turned off earlier then. It's not something that can't be adjusted unlike a hard product.

 

[Lynda2475]

I like that on the A380 you can peak out the window, on the Dreamliner I dont like that staff override the window controls so you cant look outside. They are often very late to undim them even though breakfast is being served. When the pre-landing meal is being served there is so much commotion it seems pointless not to let the sun in when your only 90 minutes out from landing.

It would be nice if the Sunrise planes have actual window shades

 

[Melburnian1]

If the feedback is not well received, guess what, lights can be turned off earlier then. It's not something that can't be adjusted unlike a hard product.

Why not read media? It initiated the concern:

(from the News Ltd online site):

"...But the surprising changes – including in economy – might be a struggle for some flyers...proposing to keep the cabin lights on for 10 hour stretches during intercontinental slogs to encourage flyers to get in synch with the time zone of their destination.

Mr Joyce...said that passengers who were determined to sleep when the lights were blazing should don some eye shades..."

If it's such a good idea, why didn't SQ or others employ it on long non-stop flights?

"Consultants" justify their eye-watering cost by coming up with what they perceive as innovative ideas, but in the spirit of AFF, often they're "enhancements'.

 

[justinbrett]

I wasn't sure whether to post in this or the 'SYD-AKL-JFK' QF3/4 area, and apologies if this has been raised before as I've not read this whole thread:

The (soon to be previous) QF CEO Mr Joyce is spruiking numerous alleged 'better sleep' features of Project Sunrise.

There's an idea in it that may well prove extremely unpopular with passengers: these flights are going to have the lights switched on for 10 consecutive hours.

This is supposedly to allow passengers to better adjust for their destination, but if one is departing JFK at say 1930 or 2100 hours, my guess is the vast majority of passengers would want to have a meal and then want the lights switched off say three hours into the flight.

I like to open the window shades/blinds (if manual operation is possible) and peer out, but many just want to sleep, and some want to do it the whole way.

Joyce says 'we provide eye shades'.

On what will be from 2025 more super long flights for which QFi will charge horrendously high fares, it ought not be dictating when passengers can even more feel like they're in some (mobile) prison with the lights blaring.

It's hard enough for lots of patrons to sleep in uncomfortable Y (and W!) seats on aircraft without making it close to impossible.

Another reason to avoid QFi!

I’m a huge fan of this. When you’re landing in the evening it is so much better for you to stay up and be awake.

It’s easier to put a mask on if you want to sleep, but if you want to stay awake it’s much harder with the lights off. Light from your device can only do so much.

I always figured the lights off strategy employed by airlines was a tactic to reduce their service levels.

I wouldn’t be following SQ’s example at all. Apparently their SIN-JFK service is absolutely brutal for jet lag, even in J.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

With 200+ people on an aircraft, there is no single "sleep/wake" schedule that will suite everyone. I applaud them for thinking about it and at least trying something different.

I think the issue is that the return flight leaves in the evening from JFK? So the majority of pax will be on New York time, and tired. To then leave the light on for 10 hours could be frustrating. Ever been on an overnight flight where the lights are left on? It’s not great.

I guess feedback will pretty quickly dictate whether this policy is short or long lived!

 

[Berlin]

I also think this is rather a positive. Crews forcing you to dim the window by either telling you to do so (got into many sometimes heated discussions on this) or, worse, on the 787 simply locking those annoying electronic shades, has long been one of my pet hates. I almost always pick a window seat early on to ensure I can enjoy those wonderful views out the windows. And the constant turning everything dark (even, sometimes, on full daylight flights) messes up my jetlagged mind even further usually. No, no and no. And as mentioned already, one can put an eye mask on if needed.

 

[dajop]

I wouldn’t be following SQ’s example at all. Apparently their SIN-JFK service is absolutely brutal for jet lag, even in J.

Haven't done SIN-JFK yet, always on of the pricier options there is, but have done SIN-EWR a number of times when it operated on the similar schedule of midday departure and early evening arrival into New York. Never had a problem with jetlag, in fact quite the opposite, arriving early evening means staying up for a few hours and going to bed.

 

[justinbrett]

I also think this is rather a positive. Crews forcing you to dim the window by either telling you to do so (got into many sometimes heated discussions on this) or, worse, on the 787 simply locking those annoying electronic shades, has long been one of my pet hates. I almost always pick a window seat early on to ensure I can enjoy those wonderful views out the windows. And the constant turning everything dark (even, sometimes, on full daylight flights) messes up my jetlagged mind even further usually. No, no and no. And as mentioned already, one can put an eye mask on if needed.

Exactly. I never understood why even on QF104, a daytime flight from HNL to SYD, only 3-4 hours time difference, where take off and landing is in daylight, they turn the lights off.

Crazy.

Haven't done SIN-JFK yet, always on of the pricier options there is, but have done SIN-EWR a number of times when it operated on the similar schedule of midday departure and early evening arrival into New York. Never had a problem with jetlag, in fact quite the opposite, arriving early evening means staying up for a few hours and going to bed.

Nonstop Dan did a review on it, I think it was the reverse direction that’s the issue. He absolutely hated it.

I was referring to the route in general not the specific flight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Exactly. I never understood why even on QF104, a daytime flight from HNL to SYD, only 3-4 hours time difference, where take off and landing is in daylight, they turn the lights off.

Crazy.

If they turn the lights off but enough pax want it light they can simply open the shades. Having the lights on bright at 2am may not win many hearts and minds. You can’t reverse that easily except with shades and ear plugs.

 

[justinbrett]

If they turn the lights off but enough pax want it light they can simply open the shades. Having the lights on bright at 2am may not win many hearts and minds. You can’t reverse that easily except with shades and ear plugs.

But it’s not 2am. It’s either 4pm or 12pm in my example (origin / destination). It’s not a democracy. FAs dictate when they have to be closed.

I think airlines do this so they don’t have to provide as much service.

I don’t believe ear plugs help block out light, but then again I haven’t tried that method

 

[dajop]

I guess the other reason that lights are dimmed, particularly in the Y cabin, is to allow better viewing of IFE. Doesn't meant they need to go off completely though.

But it does put those who want to keep their lights on in a difficult situation. I was on SQ 228 (the 3;40pm departure from MEL-SIN), in economy, and they turn the lights off after the meal service. I was in exit row, working on my laptop with o/h light on so I could see my keyboard, and about 6:30pm MEL time ... my seat neighbour asked me if I could turn the O/H light off. Looked like he was trying to nod off. I usually try to be considerate of others, but sorry it was 6:30pm. Or even 8:30am if continuing on to London, for example.

 

[dajop]

Nonstop Dan did a review on it, I think it was the reverse direction that’s the issue. He absolutely hated it.

Yeah, I've done it in the reverse direction on both morning and evening departures. Whilst staying awake was a bit difficult, and the flight (particularly for the morning departure dragged on), the jetlag aspect wasn't a problem. I think in business class less difficult, as you are sort of in your own cocoon and you have a range of options with respect to lights that don't really impact other passengers that much. In economy, well it's economy ....

 

[Berlin]

I think airlines do this so they don’t have to provide as much service.

You nailed it on the head!

 

[docjames]

There's an idea in it that may well prove extremely unpopular with passengers: these flights are going to have the lights switched on for 10 consecutive hours.

This is supposedly to allow passengers to better adjust for their destination, but if one is departing JFK at say 1930 or 2100 hours, my guess is the vast majority of passengers would want to have a meal and then want the lights switched off say three hours into the flight.

I like to open the window shades/blinds (if manual operation is possible) and peer out, but many just want to sleep, and some want to do it the whole way.


Another reason to avoid QFi!

This (immediate time zone adjustment) is a huge sell for me. I see it as a reason to favour QF - would like to see it implemented (where feasible) on all their flights, not just sunrise.

Agree with previous posts on QF104 - crazy when it's a daytime flight.

 

[NM]

I think the issue is that the return flight leaves in the evening from JFK? So the majority of pax will be on New York time, and tired. To then leave the light on for 10 hours could be frustrating. Ever been on an overnight flight where the lights are left on? It’s not great.

I guess feedback will pretty quickly dictate whether this policy is short or long lived!

Did anyone from Qantas say that the light will be on for the first 10 hours? All I have read is that they will be on for a 10-hour block. I expect that finding the right 10-hour block will depend on the flight direction and departure/arrival times.

On an evening departure from JFK, my preference would be dine and stay awake for as long as I can, and then try to time sleeping such that I wake for breakfast around 2 hours before arrival. Then I should be good for the day when I arrive. But that is just my personal preference and as noted previously, there is no one pattern that will work for everyone.

 

[downtheback]

There's also a difference between having the lights on, and having the lights on full blast. I think you'll find it'll be a warm colour temperature (like 3000K) that's on about 75% of full brightness.