Qantas slashing jobs and possibly selling FF program?

[cove]

Our most recent J flights between Perth and Sydney and return were chockers in the Qantas business class section. It is easier to see why Virgin is losing millions per week when you get on board with 5 and 8 in the A330 business class section.
Flight frequencies will get changed to the weaker routes to ensure the flights that continue will be full. I base that on how it changed in the US when their airlines went into Chapter 11 to restructure and cut costs.

 

[RooFlyer]

Re Qantas spinning off the FF program. I keep coming back to what happened with Air Canada's spun-out 'Aeroplan' program, which I've had a lot of exposure to over the past few years.

It developed to a general points program of which flying AC was just a part. The volume of 'miles' in circulation is enormous, so genuine FFers are in the minority and compete for scarce FF seats. This happens somewhat with QFF now, but if spun out, the issue will likely increase greatly.

Also, if you contact Aeroplan with some issue or wanting to make a redemption, its 'join the queue, buddy - you think you are important just because you are an AC elite?' Couldn't give a stuff. Upgrades are done within Air Canada. But award seats are done via Aeroplan. Aeroplan is hated with a passion rarely seen amongst Canadians.

In fact Air Canada last year created another FF program called 'Altitude', seen as the preparation as eventual separation from Aeroplan, and bringing its FF program back in house. Aeroplan retaliated with its own FF sub-program, called 'Distinction', which I have never understood.

 

[maninblack]

The whole thing then becomes a game that is so convoluted that it is purely self serving, and is not at all what the consumer thought they were joining it for. 'Loyalty' needs to be a two way street so at that point such has occured with Aeroplan, it's best to walk away and forget 'loyalty' programs.

 

[Awesom Andy]

In fact Air Canada last year created another FF program called 'Altitude', seen as the preparation as eventual separation from Aeroplan, and bringing its FF program back in house. Aeroplan retaliated with its own FF sub-program, called 'Distinction', which I have never understood.

That's not such a bad business idea, actually. Sell the original off for millions, and then create it again, virtually free of charge.

 

[moa999]

Agree.
But I suspect it will make any investors much more skeptical about a separated QFF.

 

[serfty]

... As an extra bonus you get to fly in and out of LHR T5, as QF Platinum I get to use BA's Galleries Arrivals lounge at T5 even in WT+, flying QF in Prem. Eco. into T3 you are not allowed to use the AA arrivals lounge. ...

Interesting that!

 

[Danger]

I flew SYD to LHR on BA 16/15 in WT+. Their new WT+ product is very good! a great improvement on the old one. I paid about A$3300, QF quoted me A$5700 on the same date SYD LHR return, as BA via SIN. QF Prem. Econ. is slightly better, possibly worth an extra A$100, certainly not A$2400! As an extra bonus you get to fly in and out of LHR T5, as QF Platinum I get to use BA's Galleries Arrivals lounge at T5 even in WT+, flying QF in Prem. Eco. into T3 you are not allowed to use the AA arrivals lounge. I'm afraid QF is not in the race for me.

When did you fly? It's been a long time since J passengers who are QF Platinum have had access to the BA T5 Arrivals lounge, let alone WT+.

 

[HKGNZL]

Our most recent J flights between Perth and Sydney and return were chockers in the Qantas business class section. It is easier to see why Virgin is losing millions per week when you get on board with 5 and 8 in the A330 business class section.
Flight frequencies will get changed to the weaker routes to ensure the flights that continue will be full. I base that on how it changed in the US when their airlines went into Chapter 11 to restructure and cut costs.

I was on SYD-PER J yesterday. Full as well though it was a pilot and his daughter sitting same row as me and I doubt if they were paying pax.

 

[footy99]

When did you fly? It's been a long time since J passengers who are QF Platinum have had access to the BA T5 Arrivals lounge, let alone WT+.

I got access twice this year into T5 Arrivals as QF WP in J. I don't think the QF WP part mattered. It's a sweet lounge. The Infinity bath after a massage on arrival is divine!

 

[TSVflyer]

When did you fly? It's been a long time since J passengers who are QF Platinum have had access to the BA T5 Arrivals lounge, let alone WT+.

I flew BA 16/15 WT+ in mid October this year. As a QF platinum/Emerald I was a bit dubious about my entitlements as an Emerald and knowing I would not be let in flying QF prem. as the AA arrivals terminal at T3 is not part of OneWorld. However if you go to the "BA lounge data base" at "Flyertalk" you will find under BAEC Gold Card holder you will be allowed into T5 Arrivals Lounge as OneWorld Emerald when arriving on a BA operated long haul flight travelling in any class, but you are not allowed a guest. Considering the huge price difference between BA and QF in Prem. Econ. and flying via SIN and arriving at T5 rather than the drab T3 with no arrivals lounge and the possibility of breaking the flight at SIN the choice is easy. I am not sure what QF can do to beat that!

 

[HKGNZL]

That's useful to know we can use arrival lounge for any BA class. Arrival lounge marvelous. Last time I arrive at 5 am-ish at T5. Had shower breakfast and they ironed shirts for you. I then was fit and ready for a meeting downtown at 9am

 

[melaus]

Re: the qantas crisis

i have read some of the comments regarding the"qantas crisis".

the 1st decision that needs to be made is remove the CEO. and replace him withsomeone who cares about our airline.

i also read of the possibility of the sale of the frequent flyer program. havingbeen through the ansett demise and loosing approx. 500,000 points i don'tintend to sit back silently, and allow that to happen again. if this wasa possibility a class action against qantas to ensure ourposition (points) is secure would be a the way to go:?: :evil:

jadeqld1123

With you brother, I sat feeling absolutely helpless whilst my half a mill. Ansett points dissolved.
I'm wondering why my wrists of late are starting to get ready for a new set of handcuffs.

Use them, a lot of you may say, but we are not all in a position just to be able to pack up and go at a moments notice.
One of the nice feelings one gets whilst gathering these bloody points, is that you are enjoying the service of a company that you like and trust and hope that they like you enough to give you a bit of a gift later on.............Not to sit and watch at the moment at what the h-ll is going on and why?

 

[11sjw]

Re: the qantas crisis

With you brother, I sat feeling absolutely helpless whilst my half a mill. Ansett points dissolved.
I'm wondering why my wrists of late are starting to get ready for a new set of handcuffs.

Use them, a lot of you may say, but we are not all in a position just to be able to pack up and go at a moments notice.
One of the nice feelings one gets whilst gathering these bloody points, is that you are enjoying the service of a company that you like and trust and hope that they like you enough to give you a bit of a gift later on.............Not to sit and watch at the moment at what the h-ll is going on and why?

When Ansett went down you and I lost points/flights. My step-father and plenty of others lost their jobs. Perspective can be handy sometimes.

 

[melaus]

Re: the qantas crisis

When Ansett went down you and I lost points/flights. My step-father and plenty of others lost their jobs. Perspective can be handy sometimes.

For sure and noted, and just for the record, I was also in the same situation as your step-father and others not so long ago.
So been there and done that. This though is a Frequent Flyer Forum and I don't need to be shot down for sticking to the matters at hand!

 

[11sjw]

Re: the qantas crisis

Yeah, probably shouldn't have quoted yours and just posted the comment. Apologies!

 

[JQ29]

Re: the qantas crisis

I agree with fact that Qantas Management need to be closely looked at, before any tax payer funded bailout is considered. Poor management decision and inappropriate personnel in wrong positions, QF freight is clear example of mis-management and poor investment decisions. The acquisition of Aust.Air.Express and divestment of Star Track Express have been debacles, where is the post implementation reviews of these transactions.. why promote personnel where profits gone from $100m+ to -$20m??? I understand that many senior mgt personnel are not made to account at Qantas..

 

[eastwest101]

Re: the qantas crisis

I agree with fact that Qantas Management need to be closely looked at, before any tax payer funded bailout is considered. Poor management decision and inappropriate personnel in wrong positions, QF freight is clear example of mis-management and poor investment decisions. The acquisition of Aust.Air.Express and divestment of Star Track Express have been debacles, where is the post implementation reviews of these transactions.. why promote personnel where profits gone from $100m+ to -$20m??? I understand that many senior mgt personnel are not made to account at Qantas..

No arguments there - I think its time that long suffering shareholders do something about current QF management. I think a possible staff buyout, more overseas investment/ownership or even partial government assistance are all conditional on large scale flushing out of current board and management before anything even remotely like a strategy for a turnaround for QF starts to happen. About the only beleivable thing to come out of all this "noise" that QF management have been making is that there is a genuine case for another look at the QF Sales Act to at least level out the playing field.

At the moment - the travelling public, the staff, the competition regulators, most politicians, a lot of shareholders and other airline management (including OW partenrs and EK mates) are all sick and tired of the current QF board and management...

 

[fly2much]

There is discussion today in the AFR about Qantas stopping the QF9 in DXB.

[link deleted as it won't post]

"By moving its European hub to Dubai, Qantas stopped offering flights to Europe from Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide. That, combined with giving customers the option of direct connections to cities like Paris, Rome and Frankfurt from Dubai, has meant Qantas has far less connecting traffic for its A380s flying between Dubai and London.

There is speculation that Qantas could cancel the Dubai to London portion of its current flights from Melbourne to London as a result. It is less likely the Dubai to London portion of its Sydney flights would be cancelled, as that would leave it without any presence in the UK capital."

It's interesting really... We are looking to fly to Europe in a few months with the family - the big question is QF business or SQ business - can't really beat the much cheaper FF seats on SQ 4 flights a day right through the day, rather than the single QF9.

Are things that dire on the flights ex Dubai to London?

Cheers

 

[maninblack]

There is discussion today in the AFR about Qantas stopping the QF9 in DXB.


Are things that dire on the flights ex Dubai to London?

Cheers

Probably. Why would anyone want to pay QF's prices especially to go through Dubai

 

[markis10]

Having two A380s within hours of each other on the short hop is always going to be problematic, the expectation they would pick up traffic in DXB is somewhat ludicrous given the presence of two strong competitors in the UAE. It would make more sense sending one to another country, like FRA, especially given the opportunity to also get servicing done.

One thing I have noticed over the past few years is the apparent increase in flights that have no passengers, I would have thought it would be in the KPIs of scheduling to keep these close to zero, surely at least the 747 and A380 tags ex Sydney could run as a domestic flight?