Qantas slashing jobs and possibly selling FF program?

[Aussie_flyer]

it is time to go back to Ireland and play some golf.

Why does where somebody has been born always come into play in these discussions? He is an Australian citizen for goodness sake.

 

[Dmac6345]

Going back to burning or hoarding points, I'm thinking we are in a no win really.
I had 3 trips booked with Ansett FF Points and ended up not leaving my lounge room after they folded. If you book all these ASA's or whatever you use your points for, if QF went down the tube, they wouldn't honor any previous bookings of reimburse points IMO.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

It was Geoff Dixon who favoured Joyce over Borghetti. Not QF's finest hour...

What we are seeing now is the legacy of Dixon and to some extent the failed attempt at the private buy out.

The tin foil hat in me says perhaps Joyce is their insider..

 

[Mwenenzi]

Rubbish - all QF proved is that offering rubbish timings and constantly changing them, you aren't going to succeed.

Please publish your quantitative analytical report of the “rubbish timings and constantly changing them”

Waiting for Virgin to announce direct flights from Adelaide and Perth to: Singapore, Tokyo and Hong Kong

Not llikely with the controling shareholders VA has

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

Waiting for Virgin to announce direct flights from Adelaide and Perth to: Singapore, Tokyo and Hong Kong

They don't have the fleet to do so currently, and wouldn't need to seeing that SQ offers a sensible connection to both HKG and NRT without the need to back track.

 

[mannej]

Please publish your quantitative analytical report of the “rubbish timings and constantly changing them”

Oh come on - there is enough evidence on here for one to prove my point. QF changed the 67/68 timings a number of times, yet it never seemed to be a positive change.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Qantas could have kept Singapore as a hub meaning direct flights Perth and Adelaide to Singapore then proceeding on the larger planes to Europe.
Emirates was never the answer - all that's happened is that we now book with Emirates and not Qantas. They've lost business. If I want to go to Singapore I'll fly direct with SQ. Same with HK with CX. Most likely will never travel internationally with Q again. How does that solve their issue?

Yes and who is to say that if they tried to keep this going they would not have lost twice as much as they have this year?

It's amazing how you have all the answers yet as far as I know you are not an airline executive? I could say they could have opened a central hub in Alice Springs and it would have worked but I really have nothing to back that up.

So many people angry at Qantas and Alan Joyce (who is merely the face in front of a large management team making these decisions) but do you seriously think that Virgin Australia would come in and start flying to Europe from Adelaide ?

 

[Mwenenzi]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

They don't have the fleet to do so currently, and wouldn't need to seeing that SQ offers a sensible connection to both HKG and NRT without the need to back track.

Just publish these

 

[mannej]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

Just publish these

I am sure you can find that information for yourself - it isn't hard.

 

[samh004]

I am not arguing with you but it is very difficult for Qantas to have an international hub in every Australian city. They have chosen SYD.

It is not fair expecting ADL or PER to each have a direct Qantas flight to SIN, BKK, NRT, HKG, MNL etc.

I really do not see the issue connecting via SYD.

What do you propose , direct services to all major cities worldwide from all Australian capital cities?

I think that's an issue. They've chosen their main hub to be one with a curfew and frequent issues. Not that the infrastructure at other hubs like MEL or BNE is vastly superior, but they could time their flights to better connect with Asia, and the world, and in doing so win back customers.

Instead, their decision has been to stick with a port, even at the loss of other ports, where they're hampered in what they can do.

 

[Flashback]

We all know that their SYD option will never change, whether that be to their detriment or not....

 

[Oxy]

I have wondered if using PER as a departing hub for Asian flights would be such a crazy idea. It's a lot easier for the whole country to go via Perth than via Sydney. Still ther terminal issues, but looks like that's being amended.
And by the end of 2014 we would have a consistent product the whole way from the east coast, with the upgraded A330s.
With Emirates blessing shock the could even do DXB!
At least that way most of Australia would get sensible options on QF metal.
but I'm sure it cannot be that easy.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I have wondered if using PER as a departing hub for Asian flights would be such a crazy idea. It's a lot easier for the whole country to go via Perth than via Sydney. Still ther terminal issues, but looks like that's being amended.
And by the end of 2014 we would have a consistent product the whole way from the east coast, with the upgraded A330s.
With Emirates blessing shock the could even do DXB!
At least that way most of Australia would get sensible options on QF metal.
but I'm sure it cannot be that easy.

no it's not that easy since 21,000,000 or more of us live over here

 

[Economy_Gold]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

Selling off the FF unit would be dumb - QF needs the profits to cross-subsidise. The value and profitability of QFF also depends on the reach of QFi - you cannot segregate the business, all are integral units to running an airline in the modern market.

I think this is a beat up designed to pressure the government. Ultimately they will cut back on the domestic capacity war and the EOFY result will be better than the dire predictions, and then the board will congratulate themselves on their heroic performance.

I agree on both points. However, the first point is not what you learn nowadays in business schools - the idea that various parts of the business depend on each other and that therefore cross-subsidising is a legitimate business action to improve the overall performance of the company is seen as an "old way of thinking" and instead each business unit is seen completly separately, in my opinion a very short-sighted view.

 

[Pushka]

We all know that their SYD option will never change, whether that be to their detriment or not....

Why is that when it is a potentially limiting factor?

 

[DaveB]

Why does where somebody has been born always come into play in these discussions? He is an Australian citizen for goodness sake.

The context of the complete sentence which you so candidly cut in half is that if a company under your guidance continues to go backwards restructure after restructure and the best you can do is call for a review and government assistance, it is more than time to move on. The hands in pockets he happily posed for in the 2013 Annual Report to me clearly shows he clearly lacks the leadership skills amongst probably others necessary for QF to survive.

 

[Sojourner]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

Though I would not use the words you have I agree with the sentiment. I sense a lot of spin in here

Those freaking out (normal suspects) and those who think this is a blunder are not reading between the lines

Read between the lines? How about reading the bottom line? The bottom line is that QF are making an operating loss from the six months to December. If you've ever managed a business, you would know that is a huge red flag that the entire business is at risk.

QF's investment rating is about to be downgraded to junk status as a result of this update. When it can no longer access credit at a reasonable rate to cover its operating losses, it will need to pursue other means, hard cost cutting to stem the losses (already starting), capital raising from shareholders (already mooted), asset sales (also being considered).

Can you tell me how long QF can run at an operating loss when it cannot access the credit markets and when its shareholders are no longer willing to throw good money after bad? Sure it can flog off a few assets here 'n there, but that will just buy them time. QF needs a turnaround strategy and Joyce does not seem to have the answer.

This is why Joyce has turned to the government to either go guarantor on QF's loans, or stump up cash and become a shareholder.

If people don't think QF is in a desperate position, let me know how many more millions it can lose before you would say it becomes 'desperate' so we know that losing hundreds of millions of dollars by running for six months with negative cash flow isn't purely just for spin. If running your airline at a loss is a spin strategy, it's a heck of an expensive one that's for sure.

Can someone also tell me how Joyce's "65% market share line in the sand" works? How does Qantas adding two aircraft for every one aircraft VA adds regardless of yields/profitability help QF make money? It takes more than one airline to flood the market with excess capacity.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

The context of the complete sentence which you so candidly cut in half is that if a company under your guidance continues to go backwards restructure after restructure and the best you can do is call for a review and government assistance, it is more than time to move on. The hands in pockets he happily posed for in the 2013 Annual Report to me clearly shows he clearly lacks the leadership skills amongst probably others necessary for QF to survive.

So why not just say that rather than some smart comment telling him to return to Ireland...

 

[seritonin]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

Qantas is a really good airlines and it is a shame that Joyce is running it to the ground. The demise of their international routes can only be blame by its own management of timetable and failed to utilise 'scissor hub' and this started with the mess of 'Kangaroo route' via HKG. I watched in disgust when Joyce tried to explain to the media few days ago, how VA has the front foot with stupid football analogy yet Qantas 33.3% ownership of Jetstar Hong Kong blatantly violated Basic Law in Hong Kong and does not meet the principal place of business clause. oh, the irony.....

 

[Programme]

Re: Qantas to cut 1,000 Jobs.

I agree on both points. However, the first point is not what you learn nowadays in business schools - the idea that various parts of the business depend on each other and that therefore cross-subsidising is a legitimate business action to improve the overall performance of the company is seen as an "old way of thinking" and instead each business unit is seen completly separately, in my opinion a very short-sighted view.

Part of the problem is considering Qantas Frequent Flyer as a separate business at all. Surely, the primary reason for the establishment of the QFF programme was to reward a loyal relationship and to 'golden handcuff' its customers to improve the profitability of the primary business. QFF should be considered a marketing cost centre and not a profit centre!

The fact that the only part of the business that is profitable is selling QFF points to credit card companies is quite sad, but selling of QFF must be one of those things that only makes sense to people educated in business schools - how can one make money out of selling QF points if there is no more QF?