India currently only allows "bubble" flights with countries they have bubble agreements.
Wonder if AJ has brokered some sort of bubble arrangement with India.
Weird that there are no announcements from India about addition to bubble agreements.
Those flights would have to leave well before 0600 in the case of ADL/BNE/PER and at 0600 for MEL so I very much doubt they'd add extra domestic flight just to connect to a oneway flight.
The BA connection just adds a few extra seats to the flight to make its business case stronger. There's no way this route is going to survive long term just with VFR - especially being light on premium pax.
Must admit I too struggle to understand the economics especially given the previous struggles of QF getting the India market - which appears to be more price sensitive than most - to work ... I certainly hope my doubts are unfounded.
It’s been a while since I’ve been there but there was a multi use lounge that I can’t remember the name of that we were directed to and I didn’t think was that great. There was a Plaza Premium lounge that QR passengers were being directed to but I must admit I didn’t take a great deal of notice on what else was on offer at the time
There is actually a fair bit of business travel between Australia and India ( which has been well served by SQ/CX/MH ) so assuming QF can fill the front cabin with some high paying corporates this just might work.
Agreed the rest of the market to India is VERY very price conscious but I suspect that this is not the market QF intend to capture on this one.
There is actually a fair bit of business travel between Australia and India ( which has been well served by SQ/CX/MH ) so assuming QF can fill the front cabin with some high paying corporates this just might work.
There is a reason why India - Australia always worked well for SQ, CX and MH, but not so much for Indian or Australian carriers. Between them they offer single connections SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL-xx_-BOM/DEL/BLR/HYD/CCU/MAA/cough/AMD on about 40 city pairs. For example, MEL-SYD-overnight-DEL-BOM doesn't seem that attractive vs MEL-SIN-BOM. Even for a single conncetion, for example, travelling between SYD and BLR, a transit of DEL instead of KUL or SIN, adds on about 1650 miles, or the distance between MEL and PER.
I do wonder if DEL will be more succesful than BOM for QF, due to the supposed high mobility of those in the north of India (not sure if it is an urban myth or not, but I've told that by multiple people when travelling in places like Punjab, Haryana etc ).
The thing with India is, international travel happens a LOT from a LOT of cities, not just DEL or BOM. I'm from MAA and I can say that there are as many number of travelers from MAA as they are from DEL, BOM, BLR etc. So QF servicing just SYD-DEL route might not get them as much pax, unless the pax are willing to connect from DEL.
As @Eastwick20 mentioned, QF can expect a lot of business travelers on this route or connecting via this route. Leisure travelers, may be not unless they are predominantly travelling to one of the states in North India. South Indian states (& North Indian) are well serviced by SQ, MH, CX etc, which have gained the trust of pax over a number of years and are $ sensitive too. My cousin used to do SIN-MAA fortnightly on SQ and was happy to do so as it was cheaper & reliable. For me personally, it's much easier & quicker to connect via CMB on UL rather than DEL on QF.
I've transited a few times from DEL & BOM, but there are not much DOM connections after 9 PM, which might become an issue, if the intl arrival flight lands in DEL around or after 8 PM. It's a pain to get through customs & ppt control in DEL & BOM and then there is a massive wait for the bags to arrive, which makes the 9 PM domestic connections an issue. They do have a large number of ppt control counters, even then it will take at least 20 mins to clear customs, snaking your way through the lines.
At least DEL/BOM - MAA there is no good connections after 9 PM. The earliest is at 5 AM, but then again, you need to spend the night in DEL/BOM. However, this will not be an issue with the QF SYD-DEL as it arrives around the 3-4 PM mark
Also, because of the connections and the booking, often times, not being on the same PNR, luggage becomes an issue in domestic connections. When QF had partnership with 9W, I was able to get all the legs in the same PNR, but I don't think that's possible anymore with any Indian airline.
If nothing, QF SYD-DEL might become the only namesake route from AU to IN .... as in, oh yes we do have a direct service to IN from AU, we fly to the capital city
There is a reason why India - Australia always worked well for SQ, CX and MH, but not so much for Indian or Australian carriers. Between them they offer single connections SYD/MEL/BNE/PER/ADL-xx_-BOM/DEL/BLR/HYD/CCU/MAA/cough/AMD on about 40 city pairs. For example, MEL-SYD-overnight-DEL-BOM doesn't seem that attractive vs MEL-SIN-BOM. Even for a single conncetion, for example, travelling between SYD and BLR, a transit of DEL instead of KUL or SIN, adds on about 1650 miles, or the distance between MEL and PER.
I do wonder if DEL will be more succesful than BOM for QF, due to the supposed high mobility of those in the north of India (not sure if it is an urban myth or not, but I've told that by multiple people when travelling in places like Punjab, Haryana etc ).
I just posted something on similar lines ... You are right in saying about people travelling north of India. I do have a lot of mates who are from the Punjab region who use DEL as their gateway into India. And for those from the South, it's so much easier and quicker to take a connection at SIN or KUL or HKG and go direct to MAA/HYD/BLR/cough. For instance someone from Madurai (IXM) might prefer to enter India at MAA and then take a connection or a bus or train ride to IXM.
I've transited a few times from DEL & BOM, but there are not much DOM connections after 9 PM, which might become an issue, if the intl arrival flight lands in DEL around or after 8 PM. It's a pain to get through customs & ppt control in DEL & BOM and then there is a massive wait for the bags to arrive, which makes the 9 PM domestic connections an issue. They do have a large number of ppt control counters, even then it will take at least 20 mins to clear customs, snaking your way through the lines.
At least DEL/BOM - MAA there is no good connections after 9 PM. The earliest is at 5 AM, but then again, you need to spend the night in DEL/BOM. However, this will not be an issue with the QF SYD-DEL as it arrives around the 3-4 PM mark
There was some discussion a few pages back about the Qantas flight leaving Australia too early (0605 departure from SYD) and that it should connect to BA's flights between DEL & LHR. The trouble with flight scheduling is that it's full of limitations and compromises - if you change a schedule to improve connectivity on one end, you may not be able to get a suitable slot or remove connectivity on the other end. Or, perhaps you need the aircraft to arrive back in SYD by a certain time so it can operate another onward flight to somewhere else.
BA's flights arrive in DEL at 0115 and 0850, returning to LHR at 0320 and 1050. If you changed the QF schedules to meet the BA flights, you would be arriving in DEL around 1am and leaving around 3am - meaning very limited domestic connections available within India. Changing the schedule to arrive in DEL around 9am wouldn't work because that would mean leaving SYD at 11.30pm - not possible due to the curfew in Sydney.
There was some discussion a few pages back about the Qantas flight leaving Australia too early (0605 departure from SYD) and that it should connect to BA's flights between DEL & LHR.
To be honest, who in their right mind would CHOOSE to connect to LHR via DEL anyway on a transfer between different carriers? Am I missing something and SYD-DRW-DEL-LHR is a much better routing? Whilst BA and QF are part of oneworld, the JSA they had is long since dead. Why not just take the QF flight all the way, or fly on EK, BA, QR, CX, JL or MH? Or if wanting to transfer to BA, then SIN, BKK, HKG and possibly KUL and Tokyo could be options.
I assume this would be only about FF seat availability.
There's plenty of better choices than connecting via Delhi, I agree. And who in their right mind who CHOOSE to fly BA anyway given the buffet of options you have AU-UK....!
Re: 787 - my guess is QF aren't 100% sure about the future of the route and it is probably best for them to use otherwise spare A330 capacity than dedicating a relatively rare 787 at this stage. If the point comes where the route is successful enough to warrant a 787, then it sounds like they will have more available come early-mid next year when the choice will be made as to what to do with the route.
Far better to upgrade the in flight experience than downgrade it to keep it going. Oh and you also have the issue with Y+ on the 787 which I don't think would be a particularly easy sell. J is similar enough between the two aircraft.
A lot of good points raised in this thread from valid different angles
I agree that the early departure from Sydney could be problematic but as @Mattg said there are a myriad of reasons why this early departure will need to happen from a operational prospective.
We know that status QF Frequent Flyers will move mountains to get on a QF operated aircraft so maybe a late afternoon/evening departure and a quick night at the Rydges Sydney Airport between connections may not be such a big deal breaker!
Either way I wish them luck and hope it works out for them.
Changing the schedule to arrive in DEL around 9am wouldn't work because that would mean leaving SYD at 11.30pm - not possible due to the curfew in Sydney.
May be possible once the new airport near Austral is ready, current estimate 2026. I'd assume the Austral airport won't have a curfew, given it's (not-so, given the real estate boom in the area) remote location.
More like, NO domestic connections at that time but there wouldn't be any traffic, so you could potentially get to your hotel quicker Otherwise, DEL traffic is going to take a good couple of hours, depending on where one is put up.
OT : I once had to join a tour party in DEL, enroute to the Himalayas and I made it with literally seconds to spare. I flew SYD-DEL (scenic route, took at least 3 transits) and took me good 2.5 hours in the peak Friday evening traffic to get to the train station from the airport. My dad & uncle stood at either ends of the train carriage to catch the bags I was throwing at them as the train had started to depart from the platform and I had 3 bags with me! That was the first time I ever boarded a train that was already in motion
As you mentioned @Mattg - these flights are going to be a trade off in terms of onward connecting to EU & ME. As long as there is demand & $ made, QF will retain the route.
not sure what there was/is in transit but in the arrivals hall at DEL international I've used the plaza premium lounge a few times, room with a bed and ensuite for 4-5 hours of sleep/shower then make my way to DEL domestic for my onwards flight.
To be honest, who in their right mind would CHOOSE to connect to LHR via DEL anyway on a transfer between different carriers? Am I missing something and SYD-DRW-DEL-LHR is a much better routing? Whilst BA and QF are part of oneworld, the JSA they had is long since dead. Why not just take the QF flight all the way, or fly on EK, BA, QR, CX, JL or MH? Or if wanting to transfer to BA, then SIN, BKK, HKG and possibly KUL and Tokyo could be options.
I assume this would be only about FF seat availability.
When QF returns to PER or SIN and someone in DRW wants to get to Europe without flying south or flying to SIN on JQ. JSA or not, it's a seamless connection no different to QF-AA etc. That's an issue for the airlines/revenue, not the pax.
I did this trip back in 2007 when I lived there (DRW-BOM-LHR) but it was an afternoon arrival and a morning departure out of BOM so was overnight - and having never been to India and travelling a mate in our 20s - it was a great experience.
We got op up'd to Y+ on the flight to LHR (I didn't even know it was a thing - well before we QF implemented it) and I've had really great luck and experiences flying BA since. The following year I returned but the BOM route was gone, so flew DRW-CNS-NRT-LHR overnighting in Tokyo. That BA flight I got op-uped to full J. So I always defend BA, they've done alright by me
When QF returns to PER or SIN and someone in DRW wants to get to Europe without flying south or flying to SIN on JQ. JSA or not, it's a seamless connection no different to QF-AA etc. That's an issue for the airlines/revenue, not the pax.
I hadn't been thinking of DRW. But, of course QF aren't configuring the route with a connection to BA @Del just to serve the DRW market - that will ultimately what JQ is for if you are addicted to QF group, and if not, SQ does OK for DRW pax.
Really having a connection at DEL to Europe (particularly the well served LHR) is immateria for the larger SE Australian markets, there are of course loads of alternatives even if wanting to connect to BA.
I hadn't been thinking of DRW. But, of course QF aren't configuring the route with a connection to BA @Del just to serve the DRW market - that will ultimately what JQ is for if you are addicted to QF group, and if not, SQ does OK for DRW pax.
Really having a connection at DEL to Europe (particularly the well served LHR) is immateria for the larger SE Australian markets, there are of course loads of alternatives even if wanting to connect to BA.
Well the more I thought about it, the merits of a connection to BA is the overnight stopover and a brief but memorable Indian experience (considering most Australians have not and probably will never go to India otherwise). I certainly really enjoyed mine.
It would defeat the purpose to fly straight through, so on reflection, the current schedule is fine.
Also when you're booking a ow RTW fare you do appreciate the more obscure routings like these.
SYD-DEL is 40 SCs for Economy Sale, 50 SCs for Economy Saver and 75 SCs for Economy Flex. 150-165 SC for Business class, depending on fare class.
As far as I can tell, there is no specific earning category for DRW-DEL so it would be 30-60 SC in Y and 120-140 SC in J based on the "all other flights" table.
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Otherwise, DEL traffic is going to take a good couple of hours, depending on where one is put up.
