Qantas treats Perth like dirt

[michaele]

The question for QF ex-PER is can they make more money deploying a 787 PER-DXB or PER-DXB-BER/FRA or more money just codesharing on EK?

This is probably an overlooked point - why deploy metal on a route already serviced unless you think you can do substantially better than the current arrangement (which you get a cut of).

What would the additional revenue be from having QF metal on PER-DXB vs revenue from an entirely new/currently underserviced route?

 

[Daver6]

I think what irks PER folk is the fact QF used to fly to a bunch of destinations from PER, including Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore (on a half decent aircraft once upon a time). There were quite possibly other destinations too that I don't recall.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

This is probably an overlooked point - why deploy metal on a route already serviced unless you think you can do substantially better than the current arrangement (which you get a cut of).

What would the additional revenue be from having QF metal on PER-DXB vs revenue from an entirely new/currently underserviced route?

That would be one of the reasons they are discussing PER-LHR direct and not PER-DXB.

 

[mannej]

I think what irks PER folk is the fact QF used to fly to a bunch of destinations from PER, including Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore (on a half decent aircraft once upon a time). There were quite possibly other destinations too that I don't recall.

PER-NRT on a decent aircraft? That's an awful long way on a 767 without IFE...

 

[Franky]

PER-NRT on a decent aircraft? That's an awful long way on a 767 without IFE...

Sure - but it is much better than going via Sydney, Brisbane, Singapore or Hong Kong. The previous flights we had to Japan used to alternate between Tokyo and Osaka for a bit of choice.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

PER-NRT on a decent aircraft? That's an awful long way on a 767 without IFE...

I would take a 767 over a 737 any day.

 

[michaele]

That would be one of the reasons they are discussing PER-LHR direct and not PER-DXB.

Is that a financially viable route? Does it produce more revenue than existing codeshare and more revenue than alternative routes either ex-PER to asia or other city pairs?

I also don't see huge benefits for pax. The direct flight assumes all PER pax are heading to LHR and not Europe. Any time saved for East Coast pax from skipping DXB is negated by flying via PER. It's a nice marketing move from QF being able to advertise direct Aus-LHR but that seems about it.

 

[Conrad_S]

I would think that we'll over 80% of the population of Australia live well within 2hrs of Sydney airport either by ground commute or air connection. On that count Melbourne and Brisbane probably serve a logistical benefit for QF as much as they might be preferred by the local population using them. The figure for Perth is probably around 10% with a fair slice of them heading east anyway. Tough case to put a new service into.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I would think that we'll over 80% of the population of Australia live well within 2hrs of Sydney airport either by ground commute or air connection. On that count Melbourne and Brisbane probably serve a logistical benefit for QF as much as they might be preferred by the local population using them. The figure for Perth is probably around 10% with a fair slice of them heading east anyway. Tough case to put a new service into.

Watch out, you might be making too much sense to be part of this chat

 

[mannej]

I would take a 767 over a 737 any day.

That's a bit of a nothing point considering a 737 couldn't do the PER-NRT route.

Sure - but it is much better than going via Sydney, Brisbane, Singapore or Hong Kong. The previous flights we had to Japan used to alternate between Tokyo and Osaka for a bit of choice.

That's personal choice, but CX via HKG isn't that ad nor much of a diversion compared to SYD or HKG.

 

[wandering_fred]

That's a bit of a nothing point considering a 737 couldn't do the PER-NRT route.
That's personal choice, but CX via HKG isn't that ad nor much of a diversion compared to SYD or HKG.

There are a lot of planes that could do PER-SIN, and most would be better than a 737 or A320. But both of the latter are better than nothing, I suppose. I just want something that doesn't arrive between 2200 and 0700...

It's true that HKG doesn't add a whole lot if you are going to Asia or North America when compared with direct flights (omitting SIN and KUL). When you compare with routes via eastern Australia, you understand my current FF affiliations. Pity about all the changes in FF programs of lare though...

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[cove]

For domestic flights we are quite happy to have refurbed A330-200s and the business class lounge in Perth for our runs to MEL or SYD from Perth.

 

[RichardMEL]

Discussion of the "Good Old Days" is all well and good but you're also talking about routes that probably lost a fair amount of $$$ too.

While QF has an obligation, of sorts, as the main flag carrier to service most of Australia, and it does pretty well regionally, these days there are commercial realities. We all have our personal "pet" routes we'd like or do like or want back, but it's not all about us as individuals it's about what actually works. QF clearly feels, for example, they can't make money flying a widebody (eg: 330) to SIN from PER, but a 737 is a good size fit. As pax we don't like it, specially in J and I *totally* understand that and feel that pain, but the reality is they are competing against a mega carrier to their hub (SQ) where QF has (now) little onwards feed on their own metal, it's basically all ceeded to 3K and if you're a Y pax, flying a 737 PER-SIN and connecting to I don't know HKT or CGK or something on a 320 is going to be roughly the same experience. J is a different issue totally absolutely, but this is a commercial decision.

QF like most other legacy carriers operates a hub and spoke system. Like it or not, QF's main hub is SYD, with secondary hubs at MEL and to a lesser extent BNE. The comments about SA flying to JNB are hey guess what... SA has a hub at JNB and feed from there. SQ to SIN? CX to HKG? TG to BKK? all hubs on the end. This is what alliances were built for... route those pax on your partners where you can't serve it yourself.

If PER were a population centre the size of MEL this wouldn't be an issue, but PER is small and isolated. Just can't make money on many routes in competition with these other carriers who can fly those widebody a/c to/from their hubs at a lower cost specially when you have partners who can take your pax even if it is over a few more hours (eg: CX/MH/EK).

If you're a VA pax and you want to get to Hong Kong you face a similar dilemma that you'd have to go on SQ via SIN and the shoe is on the other foot.

Speaking of VA, what do they offer the Australian based pax out of PER? Zero bar codeshares on NZ to AKL and SQ to SIN and probably EY to AUH (I am not certain if EY serve PER off the top of my head). If you ask me you're just as hosed, if not more, ex-PER by VA than you are by QF.

Fact is we're a huge country with only a couple of large population centres, which are within a few flight hours of each other on the east. That's where the demand is. I'm sorry PER but if it wasn't for the resources and so on you'd be treated probably like ADL, maybe a little worse. No offence intended - I love PER it's a lovely place but on a world scale it's too far away and too small relatively to provide the demand to make these things work.

Unless you want QF to serve all kinds of whacky places from places like ADL/DRW/PER/CNS and lose $$$ and go out of business....

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Despite the recent turn it has taken, this thread was not started on the topic of which routes QF operated out of Perth.
It was started about other ways in which PER PAX receive a lower standard of service - such as not being aable to look up sales fares to Europe.
There are commercial realities but they don't dictate every decision.

 

[RichardMEL]

QF has
- 330's upgraded in J (yes not all flights but the majority are)
- a brand new and best in country dom J lounge
- a fairly good terminal experience from the few times I've been through there on QF for all pax (and the J lounge should clear some of the high vis types out of the QC?)
- reasonable schedules to SYD/MEL/BNE/ADL

as for the sales - either a website glitch or QF just not offering many sales (the bit about not being able to select some regions is clearly a website issue to be added to the millions of other annoyances)

the competition with VA which has gotten serious over the past few years both on the ground (VA new terminal, QF lounges etc) and in the air (J class battle on 330's) has seen a lot of attention on PER IMHO. Australian Aviation just had a big article on what's going on at PER and it made for some interesting reading though it seems on the ground VA is probably a little behind but in the air they probably win in J.

International, well that one's been done to death really IMHO.

 

[wandering_fred]

...
International, well that one's been done to death really IMHO.

Well some of us in WA would rather fly overseas than to eastern Australia...

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[RichardMEL]

Well some of us in WA would rather fly overseas than to eastern Australia...

Happy wandering

Fred

And not disagreeing with this.

At the end of the day YOU have a choice. You do not have to fly QF (or partners) if they do not deliver what you want. You can fly SA or SQ or TT or TG or whoever... QF loses your business and that's also a commercial reality for them to deal with. Now if you want to be loyal to QF for FF purposes, then you have another choice to make, but that's up to each person to make that value judgement.

My point was not that international doesn't matter.. just that in this thread it has been discussed so much. In my view anyway.

 

[farstar]

QANTAS hopefully will make Perth a direct hub to Europe from east coast I would love that but lets be real other airlines out of Perth can fly you to from Perth to a lot of places from their home port, QANTAS can't and there lies the problem for QANTAS and why it is not economic for QANTAS to fly more routes from Perth.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Another thing:
In the Qantas iOS app, you cannot set a fare alert for flights from PER to any destination in Europe. Not even London.

 

[davidj]

The OW routes would be some consolation but the recent fairer and simpler enhancements have downgraded the status credit earning.
MH and QR earn ex-PER is now hardly worth bothering with.

So I guess you have answered your own question... don't fly using Qantas Frequent Flyer membership (unfortunately). If an organisation changes their business model not suited to customers, they usually walk with their feat. Sure you can be disgruntled but not sure how that will influence strategic commercial decisions. How does that saying go, no point flogging a dead horse.