Qatar applies for extra rights (take two)

[Saab34]

I think QR are certainly concerned that players like Turkish will gain a stronghold of the market, so we are back for round 2.

Historically, in the last decade, they have been given 1/4 to 1/2 of what they asked for. I don’t expect them to get 28 frequencies here, but perhaps 7 or 14.

Qatar Airways CEO reports ‘positive’ progress on bid to boost flights

The new chief executive of Qatar Airways expressed hopes talks to expand its right to land at major Australian airports would conclude soon.

www.afr.com

 

[jase05]

I hope they get them all but can see them probably only getting half of what they ask for

 

[RSVKanga]

I think the government should be aware of the significant consequences to Australia’s economic sovereignty if QR is granted this whopping 28 extra frequencies. No way should they be given this ridiculous number they are asking for. How many Australian jobs are at risk? How much $ will it take away from our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline which has a vast majority Australian workforce?

I think people also need to realise that the small gains the Australian economy will make with allowing QR (eg more transport for our exports) will be crushingly outweighed by the consequences I have mentioned above.

“Increased tourism by allowing more QR flights” is another argument from the pro-QR camp but it’s such a furphy as there will be more Australians choosing to go overseas instead of domestic travel/tourism if there are additional QR flights, cancelling out any gain QR gives by bringing international tourists here, or even a net negative reduction in tourism in Australia. How many Australian tourism operators will be at risk by allowing more QR flights?

Airfares are down 13% since last year and will continue to go down. Australia has one of the most competitive aviation markets in the world.

It wasn’t in the national interest then, and I think it continues to not be in the national interest now.


Also, Qatar Airways have now confirmed that they will seek to buy Virgin Australia either in part or in full. I hence request that the moderators reopen the thread “Qatar Airways may buy Virgin Australia in full - what are the consequences?” so that the forum can discuss and debate these new developments. The majority of AFF dismissed it as ridiculous speculation, at the time, now it’s true.

TLDR:

Bad for our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline who employs a 85%> Australian workforce.

Bad for Australian tourism operators, and the Australian cities that depend on tourism.

 

[cosi]

I think the government should be aware of the significant consequences to Australia’s economic sovereignty if QR is granted this whopping 28 extra frequencies. No way should they be given this ridiculous number they are asking for. How many Australianjobs are at risk? How much $ will it take away from our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline which has a vast majority Australianworkforce?

I think people also need to realise that the small gains the Australian economy will make with allowing QR (eg more transport for our exports) will be crushingly outweighed by the consequences I have mentioned above.

“Increased tourism by allowing more QR flights” is another argument from the pro-QR camp but it’s such a furphy as there will be more Australians choosing to go overseas instead of domestic travel/tourism if there are additional QR flights, cancelling out any gain QR gives by bringing international tourists here, or even a net negative reduction in tourism in Australia. How many Australiantourism operators will be at risk by allowing more QR flights?

Airfares are down 13% since last year and will continue to go down. Australia has one of the most competitive aviation markets in the world.

It wasn’t in the national interest then, and I think it continues to not be in the national interest now.


Also, Qatar Airways have now confirmed that they will seek to buy Virgin Australia either in part or in full. I hence request that the moderators reopen the thread “Qatar Airways may buy Virgin Australia in full - what are the consequences?” so that the forum can discuss and debate these new developments. The majority of AFF dismissed it as ridiculous speculation, at the time, now it’s true.

TLDR:

Bad for our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline who employs a 85%> Australian workforce.

Bad for Australian tourism operators, and the Australian cities that depend on tourism.

I disagree with all your comments.

Extra capacity into Australia brings more inbound tourists into Australia and contribute to the economy.

More hotel rooms occupied, restaurants benefit, tours/transport needed and retailers enjoy additional income - the list goes on

But if the government AGAIN decides to reject Qatar’s application for additional rights, it will need a clear, concise solid explanation and reason - not the BS like last time.

 

[jase05]

How many Australianjobs are at risk? How much $ will it take away from our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline which has a vast majority Australianworkforce?

I’m not sure all those QF Australian workers that were illegally sacked could care less

 

[AIRwin]

 

[RooFlyer]

I just wish the damn Qataris would make Hobart an origin port for a tag flight through Melbourne or anywhere - even once a week would do.

Maybe a tag flight every business day of the week to a different Major Australian port?

Hey - 'daily double' on to to the majors. There's most of the added capacity right there and they don’t need government approval.

 

[WilsonM]

“Increased tourism by allowing more QR flights” is another argument from the pro-QR camp but it’s such a furphy as there will be more Australians choosing to go overseas instead of domestic travel/tourism if there are additional QR flights, cancelling out any gain QR gives by bringing international tourists here, or even a net negative reduction in tourism in Australia. How many Australiantourism operators will be at risk by allowing more QR flights?

I don't think the regular decision making issue for a family holiday is a choice between the Gold Coast or the Amalfi Coast.

Regardless, last year there was 6.6 million trips to Australia from international visitors - numbers which are expected to grow further (source: International tourism results | Tourism Research Australia).

You're assuming that the gross inbound increase would be less than the gross outbound increase from capacity - what is this grounded in? I don't know the load factors of inbound to Aus vs outbound, but that would depend significantly on the carrier.

Even assuming it's a net-zero change in the actual number of people in Australia, tourists spend a hell of a lot more in productive spend than Australians do at home - they stay in hotels/hostels. Tourists go out for meals a lot more - the same when Australians go overseas. People spend differently when they travel...

How many Australianjobs are at risk? How much $ will it take away from our Australian-owned and Australian-based airline which has a vast majority Australianworkforce?

If QR does increase flights to Australian airports, wouldn't this mean it employs more people in Australia? QF can't increase its flights as they don't have the aircraft - there won't be any gain in jobs there. Plus the fact that for the European market, QF isn't really the competitor to QR at all, it's EK. If EK increased flights to Australia, would that be okay? It would result in the same net result for all the factors you've described above, except the fact that there'd be slightly more revenue to QF... ahh, I see now

 

[WilsonM]

I just wish the damn Qataris would make Hobart an origin port for a tag flight through Melbourne or anywhere - even once a week would do.

Maybe a tag flight every business day of the week to a different Major Australian port?

NTL has plans for big things - I wonder if we could also get a tag to BNE/SYD...


Can't wait for a QR 77W to be holding behind an F35

 

[elanshin]

NTL has plans for big things - I wonder if we could also get a tag to BNE/SYD...
View attachment 388636

Can't wait for a QR 77W to be holding behind an F35

I wonder if NTL got the message that WSI is a thing. I'm not sure which airline would want to fly into NTL before WSI if SYD is not an option.

 

[RSVKanga]

Why is QR so obsessed with the big four? They are free to start flying to CNS, CBR, HBA, NTL, OOL and DRW whenever they want at whatever frequency they decide.

 

[RooFlyer]

Why is QR so obsessed with the big four? They are free to start flying to CNS, CBR, HBA, NTL, OOL and DRW whenever they want at whatever frequency they decide.

Here here! Starting with HBA - and tagging to SYD, MEL, BNE etc. per my post above.

Or do you think Hobart could sustain a standalone flight Hobart to Doha?

PS just quietly, I think the obsession with the 'big four' is something to do with the population they have.

 

[jase05]

Why is QR so obsessed with the big four? They are free to start flying to CNS, CBR, HBA, NTL, OOL and DRW whenever they want at whatever frequency they decide.

Because their loads are good and there is demand for twice daily’s from the big 4. If the demand wasn’t there they wouldn’t be interested.

Post automatically merged: Jun 4, 2024

Or do you think Hobart could sustain a standalone flight Hobart to Doha?

I don’t think the Max has the legs to make it

 

[RSVKanga]

Extra capacity into Australia brings more inbound tourists into Australia and contribute to the economy.

More hotel rooms occupied, restaurants benefit, tours/transport needed and retailers enjoy additional income - the list goes on

You’re absolutely right. But as I have mentioned, there will be net gain/net loss of tourists close to zero as more Australians would prefer to travel overseas than domestically, and that cancels out the gain QR gives.

So no net gains for those hotel rooms, restaurants, tours and transport. It’s all a big furphy.

 

[elanshin]

Why is QR so obsessed with the big four? They are free to start flying to CNS, CBR, HBA, NTL, OOL and DRW whenever they want at whatever frequency they decide.

Same reason that if you ask most people in the world about Australia, they know Sydney and maybe Melbourne.

It's also the same reason these 2 cities are where immigrants first come to for the most part and thus often have the most demand to go overseas to visit friends and family.

Oh perhaps where the majority of business demand is too. All the commercial reasons.

Here's a question for you. Why does Qantas fly mainly from Sydney, a bit from Melbourne and even smaller amount from BNE/PER internationally?

 

[Quickstatus]

Why is QR QF so obsessed with the big four? They are free to start flying to from CNS, CBR, HBA, NTL, OOL and ADL and DRW whenever they want at whatever frequency they decide

I fixed some typographical errors
You're welcome

How many Australianjobs are at risk?

Do the QF1700 count?

 

[RSVKanga]

If QR does increase flights to Australian airports, wouldn't this mean it employs more people in Australia?

I’m not sure if the max 10 people employed by airports because of this will offset the thousands of Australian workers at QF who could lose their jobs if QR gets these 28 additional weekly flights approved and starts to impact QF operations.

 

[UP4014]

I hope they get them all but can see them probably only getting half of what they ask for

Negotiation 101, ask for more than you want.

 

[jase05]

I’m not sure if the max 10 people employed by airports because of this will offset the thousands of Australian workers at QF who could lose their jobs if QR gets these 28 additional weekly flights approved and starts to impact QF operations.

QF will just illegally sack their workers and outsource the jobs anyway. They have form in that department

 

[cosi]

I’m not sure if the max 10 people employed by airports because of this will offset the thousands of Australian workers at QF who could lose their jobs if QR gets these 28 additional weekly flights approved and starts to impact QF operations.

How will QF staff lose jobs?

What QF jobs will go in Perth?