Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[dajop]

Is there a thread about how this impacts TK? Or have people written about it in this thread?

There is a thread, but hasn't warranted as much attention. I still think, within AFF, it's natural that people are more likely to care about extra competition from QR as it plays both sides of the Australian loyalty game. TK plays nowhere in the Australian loyalty game, except as a bi-product of Krisflyer who have the strongest non-Australian airline loyalty presence in the Australian market.

 

[Chicken]

I think someone from AFF is about to go on air on ABC Sydney (after the news)

There is a thread, but hasn't warranted as much attention. I still think, within AFF, it's natural that people are more likely to care about extra competition from QR as it plays both sides of the Australian loyalty game. TK plays nowhere in the Australian loyalty game, except as a bi-product of Krisflyer who have the strongest non-Australian airline loyalty presence in the Australian market.

Not one single caller or SMS on the radio was supportive of QF. I think that says it all

 

[justinbrett]

Is there a thread about how this impacts TK? Or have people written about it in this thread?

It doesn't impact TK. Too many people on here trying to conflate the two issues, it's just bogus.

It seems TK is just getting ahead of itself with announcements, waiting for the approvals to catch up. There is already a treaty with Turkey with available capacity.

Minister says government will review Turkish air rights

Catherine King has hit back saying Turkish Airlines hasn’t lobbed a formal request for approval.

www.afr.com

 

[Chicken]

Matt Graham is on air!

 

[dajop]

I think someone from AFF is about to go on air on ABC Sydney (after the news)

Not one single caller or SMS on the radio was supportive of QF. I think that says it all

Why would they be?

But I still think there is more to this than pure aviation. Something else to do with broader Qatar/Australia relations and absolutely nothing to do with QF and their 2 services a day that compete with QR.

 

[RooFlyer]

Matt Graham is on air!

Thanks! Well done Matt.

Poor, poor Qantas. No friends in that listening audience.

 

[Pushka]

Thanks! Well done Matt.

Poor, poor Qantas. No friends in that listening audience.

So, any clues please? It doesnt seem to have been recorded.

 

[justinbrett]

But I still think there is more to this than pure aviation. Something else to do with broader Qatar/Australia relations and absolutely nothing to do with QF and their 2 services a day that compete with QR.

Yeah absolutely agree, and with respect to Matt, I think that point was lost in that interview - there are a lot of other countries with caps (eg Fiji, Thailand etc), in some cases those caps are imposed on us (eg Fiji) where we'd love to fly more.

The cap isn't specifically anti-Qatar, in fact they only just had their cap increased from 21 to 28 in 2020. And it was only 14 in 2015.

I think Matt did a good job of explaining how little to gain QF has to make out of this decision, even though I'm guessing he didn't intend to make that point.

 

[RooFlyer]

So, any clues please? It doesnt seem to have been recorded.

If you follow the link provided by chicken above, you go to ABC radio in Sydney via the ABC app, and the particular show that’s on now. Those shows typically can be replayed off the website, not the app, for up to a week. Go to ABC radio website from tomorrow , then ABC radio Sydney, the particular show - I think it’s Hamish McDonald show not the guy who actually was in there today - and you should be able to replay it from tomorrow.

I or someone should be out should be able to post a link of it from tomorrow

 

[RooFlyer]

The cap isn't specifically anti-Qatar, in fact they only just had their cap increased from 21 to 28 last year. And it was only 14 in 2015.

Given the Qatar government specifically applied for the cap to be lifted, and the Australian government specifically denied that request, then I would say the cap as it stands is pretty much specifically. anti-Qatar.

And to say that Qantas has little to gain when Qatar is prevented from expanding its service is just risible.

 

[justinbrett]

Given the Qatar government specifically applied for the cap to be lifted, and the Australian government specifically denied that request, then I would say the cap as it stands is pretty much specifically. anti-Qatar.

Obviously that specific cap is restraining QR; but I refer to the interview that said (paraphrasing from memory) "A lot of Australia's ASAs are open skies agreements, this cap specifically applies to Qatar". A casual listener may have got the impression we go out of our way to cap QR - but a lot of our agreements have caps (South Africa, Chile, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, most of the Pacific - many more...)

And to say that Qantas has little to gain when Qatar is prevented from expanding its service is just risible.

QF flies just two services to the UK (half of QR and completely dwarfed by other carriers); and one of those flights is the non-stop flight from PER that will always command a premium. It's not rocket science.

 

[justinbrett]

So, any clues please? It doesnt seem to have been recorded.

It was Afternoons with Josh Szeps, not Hamish McDonald (the handover was the end of the segment). Josh recently joined AFF to get intel from members, you might have seen him in another QR thread.

Afternoons - ABC Sydney

Afternoons will have you smiling and thinking as you get through your day.

www.abc.net.au

2:35:00

 

[exLXCXFF]

It seems TK is just getting ahead of itself with announcements, waiting for the approvals to catch up. There is already a treaty with Turkey with available capacity.

Right, so for TK (or any other Turkish based (?) airline for that matter, flying non-stop ex-IST to Australia) this won’t be an issue at this stage capacitywise due to the existing, unused agreement but is obviously subject to yet to be granted AUS Government approval?

 

[justinbrett]

Right, so for TK (or any other Turkish based (?) airline for that matter, flying non-stop ex-IST to Australia) this won’t be an issue at this stage capacitywise due to the existing, unused agreement but is obviously subject to yet to be granted AUS Government approval?

Thread is here - this is OT for QR.

Turkish Airlines Application Grounded Before Launch

Seems not just QR the gov are blocking. This is so illogical https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/turkish-airlines-grounded-before-launch-as-minister-delays-air-rights-20230723-p5dqjd

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[Chicken]

It doesnt seem to have been recorded.

It is up now: The cost of Qatar Airways' blocked expansion

 

[Himeno]

I think someone from AFF is about to go on air on ABC Sydney (after the news)

Not one single caller or SMS on the radio was supportive of QF. I think that says it all

I think it just says that people go looking for any reason to say "Qantas bad" when the thing they are using as justification for such a claim often has little or nothing to do with QF, or they attack Qantas for something while other airlines do the exact same thing and everyone ignores it.

Obviously that specific cap is restraining QR; but I refer to the interview that said (paraphrasing from memory) "A lot of Australia's ASAs are open skies agreements, this cap specifically applies to Qatar". A casual listener may have got the impression we go out of our way to cap QR - but a lot of our agreements have caps (South Africa, Chile, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, most of the Pacific - many more...)

I can find Australian open skies agreements with the following:
Austria
China
Cyprus
Japan (except Haneda)
New Zealand
Singapore
Switzerland
Taiwan
United Kingdom
United States

Everyone else is limited in some way. There are more nations with no traffic rights to Australia (except via codeshare through a 3rd nation) then there are nations with open skies.
A lot of the EU members are limited to 7 flights (or less)/week.

Why should we give Qatar open skies and not Canada, Germany or Hong Kong?

 

[RooFlyer]

QF flies just two services to the UK (half of QR and completely dwarfed by other carriers); and one of those flights is the non-stop flight from PER that will always command a premium. It's not rocket science.

<redacted>

Number of UK services? What about: other connections through SIN and DOH able to be sold on QF or QR tickets; the little matter of being able to command higher prices when capacity is limited; the ability to offer ancillary services with larger market share etc etc.

By all means keep beating the drum of <play sinister music> unseen global forces at play and gee, it’s not really about Qantas lobbying government directly and indirectly to stifle competition to maintain its marketshare and ability to command, premium pricing etc etc.

Why should we give Qatar open skies and not Canada, Germany or Hong Kong?

Is anyone suggesting that here?

 

[Chicken]

I think it just says that people go looking for any reason to say "Qantas bad" when the thing they are using as justification for such a claim often has little or nothing to do with QF

Some? Sure. Everyone? Don't think so.

And what happened to the $900m Jobseeker we paid Qantas, but Qatar and SQ were the airlines flying Australians back home, and actually I think Singapore was the only one to ensure they were not overselling seats which would never be flown (due to quota with hotel quarantine)?

I think I have more than enough objective reasons to choose not to fly with QF

Why should we give Qatar open skies and not Canada, Germany or Hong Kong?

Who said we shouldn't? At the current rate, we should be having more open sky agreements with more countries.

 

[Pushka]

It is up now: The cost of Qatar Airways' blocked expansion

Interesting listening! Lots of dirty linen being aired.

Post automatically merged: Aug 15, 2023

I think it just says that people go looking for any reason to say "Qantas bad" when the thing they are using as justification for such a claim often has little or nothing to do with QF, or they attack Qantas for something while other airlines do the exact same thing and everyone ignores it.

I can find Australian open skies agreements with the following:
Austria
China
Cyprus
Japan (except Haneda)
New Zealand
Singapore
Switzerland
Taiwan
United Kingdom
United States

Everyone else is limited in some way. There are more nations with no traffic rights to Australia (except via codeshare through a 3rd nation) then there are nations with open skies.
A lot of the EU members are limited to 7 flights (or less)/week.

Why should we give Qatar open skies and not Canada, Germany or Hong Kong?

The comments I'm hearing are of actual experiences not just a moan and groan.

 

[Chicken]

It was Afternoons with Josh Szeps, not Hamish McDonald (the handover was the end of the segment). Josh recently joined AFF to get intel from members, you might have seen him in another QR thread.

Josh Szeps actually also uses points to fly at the pointy end. Other program hosts on the station had made fun of him more than once for spending all his attention on points, and doing the 'why fly direct when you can stop over' thing. In Summary: he is one of us.