Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[RooFlyer]

It makes no sense to me why Qatar's bid for extra capacity was denied. Qantas wants them to add more capacity,

I think you need to tell us more about that.

 

[RooFlyer]

The PM was a bit cryptic in QT today, and certainly implied it was his decision on the Qatar saga, and referenced an extensive conversation with someone other than QF about it.

Oh, come on!! He and other cabinet ministers have previously said quite explicitly (not implied) that it was Minister King's decision. Can you give us the exact words in your transcript (BTW - from where?) you think shows that it was his decision? Surely not this:

I had one extensive conversation with someone about Qatar. It was not someone from Qantas.

... your bolding. Could that person have been Minister King? His hairdresser?

 

[justinbrett]

Oh, come on!! He and other cabinet ministers have previously said quite explicitly (not implied) that it was Minister King's decision. Can you give us the exact words in your transcript (BTW - from where?) you think shows that it was his decision? Surely not this:

I had one extensive conversation with someone about Qatar. It was not someone from Qantas.

... your bolding. Could that person have been Minister King? His hairdresser?

They are exact words from Hansard - I copy & pasted. Hansard The question was who he or his office (not King's) spoke to about the Qatar decision. If he had no influence, then why would he have not just answered no? If it was King, then that shows he did influence it.

Yes my bolding, because that was the part that stood out to me as cryptic.

Of course politicians can be clever with wording - it is Minister King's decision. That doesn't mean she made it in isolation, or didn't follow a directive from him, or whether it was made by the cabinet.

Most industry sources including Graham Turner said they believe it came from the PM.

 

[Himeno]

The PM was a bit cryptic in QT today, and certainly implied it was his decision on the Qatar saga, and referenced an extensive conversation with someone other than QF about it.

When asked to detail discussions he or his office has had with the Qantas CEO Alan Joyce or with other senior Qantas directors or executives concerning the Qatar request:

As I was saying before with regard to this question on this issue of Qatar, I'll make two points. One is that the deal that was asked for in February 2018 took not that term but till January 2022 to come into place.

Hmm... early 2022 is when the agreement increased from 21 to 28 weekly flights. IIRC, it increased from 14 to 21 in October 2017 or 2018.

 

[justinbrett]

Hmm... early 2022 is when the agreement increased from 21 to 28 weekly flights. IIRC, it increased from 14 to 21 in October 2017 or 2018.

I read that as the 2022 agreement was requested in 2018, so the increase request would have been made just after the previous deal became effective.

And then of course soon after the 2022 agreement became effective QR asked for more again.

The comments say both sides of parliament were concerned about "an abuse of market power" (in that it was the previous government that put in the safeguard for national interest that wasn't included in any other agreement) , and he said "That was an interesting deal because it wasn't just over flights".

Consider the waters muddied.

 

[RooFlyer]

They are exact words from Hansard - I copy & pasted. Hansard

Ah. And the question the PM was asked is also there - context is everything! From Opposition Member Hogan:

My question is to the Prime Minister. Will the Prime Minister detail discussions he or his office has had with the Qantas CEO Alan Joyce or with other senior Qantas directors or executives concerning the sweetheart deal that has blocked Qatar Airways from additional flights to and from Australia, affecting exporters and Australians, who have to pay thousands of dollars more for air travel?

So he simply replied, no, he hadn't talked with anyone from Qantas, but he did speak extensively with someone else about it. How on earth does that translate to an implication that he took the Qatar decision? LoL.

 

[justinbrett]

Ah. And the question the PM was asked is also there - context is everything! From Opposition Member Hogan:

My question is to the Prime Minister. Will the Prime Minister detail discussions he or his office has had with the Qantas CEO Alan Joyce or with other senior Qantas directors or executives concerning the sweetheart deal that has blocked Qatar Airways from additional flights to and from Australia, affecting exporters and Australians, who have to pay thousands of dollars more for air travel?

So he simply replied, no, he hadn't talked with anyone from Qantas, but he did speak extensively with someone else about it. How on earth does that translate to an implication that he took the Qatar decision? LoL.

I'm not sure why you think this was a gotcha moment for yourself - I already wrote the question:

When asked to detail discussions he or his office has had with the Qantas CEO Alan Joyce or with other senior Qantas directors or executives concerning the Qatar request.

I just simplified it as the question had partisan political content that is not permitted on AFF, and I don't think I left out anything pertinent.

Why would the PM talk to someone extensively about a decision he had no influence over? Of course the PM is involved, as has been widely reported. Whether it was his signature on the document is not the point.

 

[RooFlyer]

Why would the PM talk to someone extensively about a decision he had no influence over?

How about because he's likely to get a question in Question Time?

 

[justinbrett]

How about because he's likely to get a question in Question Time?

That he could easily defer to Minister King, as is how these things work.

 

[Saab34]

Any chance of this being overturned?

Certainly is still leading many news bulletins.

 

[RooFlyer]

That he could easily defer to Minister King, as is how these things work.

Ummm ... but he didn't . And knowing what a train wreck Minister King has been in her speaking on the subject, I don't blame the PM. He needs to be fully briefed on all topics of the day that are running, hence, as I said, him having an extensive discussion on the subject is not unlikely and hardly an implication that he took the Qatar decision. I think I've explored this enough for now.

 

[RooFlyer]

South Australia Government taking up the fight to Qantas. Good on them. Source 'The Australian' today.

Yep. Queensland too. And Wayne Swan earlier.

And now WA, per the AFR. Jeez, talk about friendless.

‘So-called national carrier’: Cook slams Qantas, backs competition

Premier Roger Cook says Western Australian is heavily disadvantaged by a lack of competition in the aviation industry and questioned whether Qantas could truly be considered Australia’s national carrier because it overlooks key areas of the country.

Mr Cook said his state kept Qantas in the air during the COVID-19 pandemic by keeping intrastate travel for tourism and mining open, but was yet to be repaid through further investment in the state, including new international routes out of Perth.

“At the moment we are particularly disadvantaged by the lack of competition in our domestic aviation market, and the protections that Qantas enjoy as our so-called ‘national carrier’,” Mr Cook told The Australian Financial Review in Jakarta.

 

[Saab34]

This would be the worst this carrier has sunk. I am glad it has occurred in the CEO final weeks of this farewell tour.

He still has 2 months to run. God only knows what else will pop up.

 

[justinbrett]

Ummm ... but he didn't . And knowing what a train wreck Minister King has been in her speaking on the subject, I don't blame the PM. He needs to be fully briefed on all topics of the day that are running, hence, as I said, him having an extensive discussion on the subject is not unlikely and hardly an implication that he took the decision.

So he shows due diligence - but only after decisions are made - never before. Lol.

I think this is the first time we've heard that both sides were "concerned about an abuse of market power" (after the 2018 request) and the subsequent agreement, delayed for four years, was subjected to a national interest safeguard that wasn't included in any other. He also said that deal wasn't just over flights.

 

[Pushka]

This would be the worst this carrier has sunk. I am glad it has occurred in the CEO final weeks of this farewell tour.

He still has 2 months to run. God only knows what else will pop up.

Almost like the incoming CEO leaked it before their arrival...

 

[antycbr]

Almost like the incoming CEO leaked it before their arrival...

The person now in the frame is Goyder. The chairman is looking very damaged here.

 

[Lynda2475]

And now WA, per the AFR. Jeez, talk about friendless.

‘So-called national carrier’: Cook slams Qantas, backs competition

LOL - WA was closed to tourism for everyone except other West Australians - this Cook guy is delusional.

 

[Pushka]

LOL - WA was closed to tourism for everyone except other West Australians - this Cook guy is delusional.

i doubt he is delusional. There was a great deal of intrastate travel in WA as they could travel freely throughout the state during the whole Covid period. There were no internal lockouts. Places like Broome were booked out months in advance and which means planes. And that does not even touch the FIFO people.

 

[Lynda2475]

Places like Broome were booked out months in advance and which means planes.

Tourist operators in WA told me most of the intra-state tourism travel was by road. Id like to see the facts in terms of it being WA tourism that most propped up Qantas during covid-19. They sure cost them loads turning planes around mid-air on several occasions when borders slammed shut again and again. They weren't even letting residents return home from the east cost for months on end, even when family members had died.

I think you will find that it was freight that largely helped revenue, not WA tourism.

However wrt tourism, when NSW was locked out of everywhere else intra-NSW flights particularly SYD to Ballina/Byron were booming; and the population of NSW is 3 times that of WA.

I stand by my comments that Cook is delusional if he thinks Qantas only survived covid because of business from WA. There was government support, government sponsored repatriation flights, freight and tourism in and between other states that have bigger populations.

 

[oz_mark]

i doubt he is delusional. There was a great deal of intrastate travel in WA as they could travel freely throughout the state during the whole Covid period. There were no internal lockouts. Places like Broome were booked out months in advance and which means planes. And that does not even touch the FIFO people.

Actually, there were periods where inter-regional travel in WA was not allowed (except if you had your papers that showed you were working on the other side of the regional border)