Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[jrfsp]

If as some here claim extra QR flights will make fares so much cheaper (something I dispute as QR are on the expensive end of the airfare spectrum) then flights to/from CBR should be viable, as in addition to ACT natives some from greater Sydney could drive/bus to CBR for the savings and others connect to CBR instead of SYD.

Fiji Airways have decided CBR is viable.

Rumor is that FJ will be pulling out of CBR, poor performance, Also cant compare the viability of twice weekly 4.5 hour B737 flight to a beach resort destination (where O&D demand exists) to a 14 hour flight on a widebody

 

[straitman]

Actually from the reporting I've seen, FJ have plans to be the Doha of the Pacific (my words, not theirs). But essentially offer a lot more flights to the US connecting to Australia / NZ.

Of course, Fiji would have to increase capacity in the Air Services Agreement - something Australia already wants but has been blocked by them.

They would also need a lot more a/c. They have just recently received their 4th and last A350.

 

[justinbrett]

Indeed I am. much more certain that the Minister is either incompetent, being thrown to the lions or both.
So you tell members of the public the QR decision on 10/7 yet only inform the PM on the 18/7.
Well we know that there were many organisations plus State governments putting in their submissions so the PM should have known earlier in case he was asked a question. And in fact he was asked a question on the subject from VA.

Yes possibly just a stuff up but Ministers should be held to account for those.
However I am reminded of the old saying - more are undone by the cover up rather than the initial decision.

It's also being reported today (on Sky) that Qatar/QR only learnt the decision from the news in Australian media (which was based on the letter to the five women).

 

[justinbrett]

They would also need a lot more a/c. They have just recently received their 4th and last A350.

Two of the 4 A350s are leased from DAE (Dubai Aerospace Enterprise), the suggestion was they could lease more.

It's probably aspirational - and would get ugly as they are both QF and AA partners, who have a JV - I can only see it happening if they let FJ into the JV which I'm not sure would be approved by ACCC.

 

[Himeno]

I understand they were given a BNE frequency during Covid? That seems to have become permanent.

Or was that a Sydney frequency they shifted?

During the border shutdown, the agreement caps were suspended. QR then started flights to BNE. At the time they had a 21 flight cap. It went up to 28 when the cap suspension ended, and QR flights to BNE remained.

 

[justinbrett]

During the border shutdown, the agreement caps were suspended. QR then started flights to BNE. At the time they had a 21 flight cap. It went up to 28 when the cap suspension ended, and QR flights to BNE remained.

And that increase to 28 was actually requested by Qatar in 2018, and put "on hold" by the previous government citing national interest concerns. It was eventually approved by the previous government in 2022 before the election.

This is the matter the current government are seeking to include in the senate inquiry, by proposing an amendment to the Terms of Reference today.

 

[drron]

It's also being reported today (on Sky) that Qatar/QR only learnt the decision from the news in Australian media (which was based on the letter to the five women).

So the minister is incompetent.
And if things go pear shaped at the Senate Inquiry she will be fed to the lions.

 

[kyle]

Whilst the Doha incident was unfortunate, there has to be a time when you move on and forgive? Or is monetary compensation now equates to forgiveness. As a gay person, I wouldn't want to fly on ME airlines if given the choice, but I still would certainly welcome competition from QR.

Not a religious person, but I have always remembered the lord's prayer during primary and secondary school about forgiving those who sin against us.

 

[justinbrett]

Indeed I am. much more certain that the Minister is either incompetent, being thrown to the lions or both.
So you tell members of the public the QR decision on 10/7 yet only inform the PM on the 18/7.
Well we know that there were many organisations plus State governments putting in their submissions so the PM should have known earlier in case he was asked a question. And in fact he was asked a question on the subject from VA.

Yes possibly just a stuff up but Ministers should be held to account for those.
However I am reminded of the old saying - more are undone by the cover up rather than the initial decision.

In QT today, the Minister was asked multiple times to specify the date the PM was advised of her decision.

She would only state it was after the 10th and on/before the 18th, at that time he advised her he had received a call from the VA CEO. She said she only made the result public on the 18th due to multiple media requests about the women.

On subsequent attempts to get her to give a specific date, she refused.

In another answer, she confirmed she consulted with other ministerial colleagues before making her decision.

 

[Pushka]

She would only state it was after the 10th and on/before the 18th, at that time he advised her he had received a call from the VA CEO. She said he only made the result public on the 18th due to multiple media requests about the women.

So why was the media interested in the women’s welfare just before the decision was made? It’s been months with radio silence. So why now?

 

[RooFlyer]

In another answer, she confirmed she consulted with other ministerial colleagues before making her decision.

How very collegial of her. Any names?

The Minister wrote to the affected women on 10 July and made her decision re Qatar flights that day. The following day, Foreign Minister Wong announced our new Ambassador to Qatar, noting.

The Australia-Qatar relationship is underpinned by strong commercial ties in agriculture, investment and aviation, and technical cooperation in security-related fields. More than 3,000 Australians and a growing number of Australian companies are based in Qatar.

Qatar is a valued source of foreign direct investment in Australia, with an estimated AUD 4 billion in property, infrastructure, and renewable energy.

Perhaps the strong ties in aviation bit might have been a stretch, under the circumstances. Wonder if she knew?

Ambassador to Qatar

Today I announce the appointment of Mr Shane Flanagan as Australia's next Ambassador to Qatar.

www.foreignminister.gov.au

 

[justinbrett]

How very collegial of her. Any names?

No, refused to give details.

Opposition proposed a motion to condemn the government over the issue, but the debate for that has been deferred for later today.

Sky are now talking about the various ministers who have accepted upgrades to F flying QR (who have to record in the acceptance of gifts register) - it included the Foreign Minister. I don't personally see the relevance of that as I'm sure the upgrades were based on their QF WP/P1 status and not targeted towards Australian government officials.

 

[Lynda2475]

I don't personally see the relevance of that as I'm sure the upgrades were based on their QF WP/P1 status and not targeted towards Australian government officials.

I don't think you can be sure of that.

Qatar well known OW for bribes, just look at how they got the world cup.

QF points can't be used to upgrade on QR metal, and you don't hear about regular P1/Wp being given free upgrades to F from J on QR.

So Likely based on their government role and hoping to curry favour.

 

[elanshin]

Honestly, if Labor wants to counter everything here and show it's not about Qantas Protectionism they have a pretty simple move they can make - offer slots to another airline / nation.

Qatar has problems and that muddles it all up along with the QF situation and in all honesty I'm not sure it would significantly benefit "cheap airfaires" like QR claim they could. They would certainly use one of the slots to axe the DOH <> MEL <> ADL flight to just DOH <> MEL.
Heck they might axe ADL altogether and get VA to pick up the slack.

Adding different airlines would likely be the best outcome if the "Australian public" was really considered.

So why was the media interested in the women’s welfare just before the decision was made? It’s been months with radio silence. So why now?

Media does waht media does best, write news which get clicks and views. Right now this is part of the news cycle so they bring it up.

 

[Lynda2475]

they can make - offer slots to another airline / nation.

We have open skies agreements with many other large international airlines i.e AA, UA, SQ ,NZ and others can add additional capacity/flights providing there are landing slots with no need for Labor to do anything.

 

[Himeno]

Adding different airlines would likely be the best outcome if the "Australian public" was really considered.

There aren't that many nations that are capped, that have their airlines flying to Australia and those airlines have used most/all of the available capacity under that nations air service agreement.
The only other one I can think of off hand is Fiji.

Hong Kong/CX was at their 70/week cap some years ago, but that was before the pandemic and CX is still rebuilding their route network.

Most of the other nations whose airlines are flying to Australia either have unlimited traffic rights under open skies agreements, or are no where near the cap limits under their respective agreement.

 

[Quickstatus]

I don't personally see the relevance of that as I'm sure the upgrades were based on their QF WP/P1 status and not targeted towards Australian government officials.

I don't know that it was based on any particular factor or factors, just as I don't know the algorithm which Qantas uses to effect their upgrades, or for that matter how a 22 year old son of a PM gets invited to the CL.
So It is very conceivable that a factor other than pure flying status (cough Government minister) applied

 

[cosi]

King said "the decision to refuse Qatar was made in the national interest."

Its disappointing that King has the sole decision and did not consult Don Farrell the Minister for Trade and Tourism on what benefits the additional 21 flights would bring to the tourism industry.

 

[Pushka]

Graham Turner CEO of Flight Centre

"Why are we allowing flights from any country that has human rights abuses? If you are going to do that to Qatar the airline, when they almost certainly had nothing to do with it, (then) you do that with every airline from every country with human rights abuses. And why wouldn’t you cancel all flights?”

The United Arab Emirates, who owns national carrier Etihad Airways, has had an appalling record on human rights including torturing human rights activists and allowing women to be flogged and stoned under the legal system for not adhering to strict sharia law.

The region is also notorious for the modern slavery of Indian workers.

China’s national carrier Air China is also welcome into Australia despite the nation’s record on human rights including the imprisonment of two Australians and the oppression of the Uyghur Muslim minority."

 

[RooFlyer]

Minister on 7:30 report. Gave list of reasons contributing to the "National interest" reason to refuse Qatar's application: about 5. The incident at Doha Airport wasn't amongst them. Not mentioned amongst the reasons. Contrast with what she said earlier.

You couldn't make this up.

Host brought up the Doha incident. Minister says "she can't pretend that she didn't know about that". Well, especially as she specifically wrote a letter about it.

But the Minister had at least got a lot of her lines memorised this time.