Qatar denied extra capacity into Australia

[evanb]

Maybe, at this point I think it's more to do with C. King having a personal bias against Qatar because of her gender, and mis-using her power to "punish" them.

From the one of the dissenting reports in the Senate: "Indeed, the Committee heard evidence from the Qatar Civil Aviation Authority – conveniently overlooked in the majority report – that the former government approved an increase in capacity under the agreement on 5April2018 only to change its mind seven days later and then sit on any further decision for nearly four years."

Would you apply the same standard then to McCormack and Joyce, the ministers responsible at that time? What were they punishing QR for?

 

[RooFlyer]

Re govt Vs airline. In Qatar, QR and Qatar are the same thing, so . Possibly more so now the former CEO of QR is now the advisor to the Prime Minister

 

[evanb]

Re govt Vs airline. In Qatar, QR and Qatar are the same thing, so . Possibly more so now the former CEO of QR is now the advisor to the Prime Minister

I think this is somewhat more important than we sometimes acknowledge. In a previous generation, there was not distinction between the state and airline, however in most western democracies a clear line was drawn between the state and airlines following liberalisation. The flag carrier was no longer represented a vehicle of the state's foreign and economic policy.

However, in Qatar, UAE, Turkey, etc, there is no distinction. The airline is still a flag carrier that is a vehicle of the state's foreign and economic policy. If anything, they see the flag carriers as one of the most important vehicles of foreign and economic policy.

 

[SCM]

From the one of the dissenting reports in the Senate: "Indeed, the Committee heard evidence from the Qatar Civil Aviation Authority – conveniently overlooked in the majority report – that the former government approved an increase in capacity under the agreement on 5April2018 only to change its mind seven days later and then sit on any further decision for nearly four years."

Would you apply the same standard then to McCormack and Joyce, the ministers responsible at that time? What were they punishing QR for?

It's difficult and I think irrelevant to comment on that given how long ago it happened, the reasons for that need not have any overlap with the reasons now.

 

[evanb]

It's difficult and I think irrelevant to comment on that given how long ago it happened, the reasons for that need not have any overlap with the reasons now.

Quite possibly, but it takes a dim view on policy making then. If we take the same standard, within a year or two King's reasons will be meaningless too.

McCormack and Joyce are still MPs. They could still be required to account for those actions.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Quite possibly, but it takes a dim view on policy making then. If we take the same standard, within a year or two King's reasons will be meaningless too.

McCormack and Joyce are still MPs. They could still be required to account for those actions.

Unfortunately the fact a previous minister in previous government made silly undocumented decisions doesn’t stop the same ex-minister in opposition complaining about actions by a new government. It’s called political hypocrisy as is evident in the current comments against non status individuals.

 

[evanb]

Unfortunately the fact a previous minister in previous government made silly undocumented decisions doesn’t stop the same ex-minister in opposition complaining about actions by a new government. It’s called political hypocrisy as is evident in the current comments against non status individuals.

Agreed, somewhat abstract, I'm simply highlighting that it's far easier for any Minister to turn a decision on QR into a purely political one since QR are a de facto political entity (no separation of church and state so to speak). Maybe a little more challenging for such decisions regarding airlines where there is a clearer separation. In some respects, QR live by the sword, and die by the sword.

 

[jrfsp]

Albanese, King met Qantas’ Joyce as government mulled extra Qatar flights

The government came under sustained pressure last year to explain its decision to reject Qatar’s August 2022 bid to double its flights to the country.

www.theage.com.au

Paywalled , but essentially Albo had a meeting with AJ however it reads that it was well after the QR decision

 

[SYD]

Albanese, King met Qantas’ Joyce as government mulled extra Qatar flights

The government came under sustained pressure last year to explain its decision to reject Qatar’s August 2022 bid to double its flights to the country.

www.theage.com.au

Paywalled , but essentially Albo had a meeting with AJ however it reads that it was well after the QR decision

Quite the opposite. PM met with AJ in Nov 2022 after QF lodged opposition to the QR proposal. Minister’s decision to decline was released July 2023.

 

[jrfsp]

Quite the opposite. PM met with AJ in Nov 2022 after QF lodged opposition to the QR proposal. Minister’s decision to decline was released July 2023.

I thought i read it wrong haha.

 

[evanb]

I'm quite amazed at the inuendos being pushed. Anyone who read the Senate report shouldn't be surprised by this. The report details multiple meetings between leaderships of Qantas, Virgin and even Qatar Airways with the Minister and the PM. Hrdlicka met with the PM too, as did a representative of Qatar Airways.

 

[jase05]

Virgin and even Qatar Airways with the Minister and the PM. Hrdlicka met with the PM too, as did a representative of Qatar Airways.

But only one of those is good mates with Albo

 

[CaptJCool]

The Australian Open could be a closed door this year
What with the last one not used to lobby the PM who attended

 

[RSVKanga]

This info about Joyce meeting Albanese in November 2022 is all old information trying to be painted as fresh revelations by a desperate L-NP opposition (see in the middle of the article).

The Australian Government was right to block a brutal competitor with endless oil funds and state ownership that could have posed a serious threat to Qantas and its post-Covid job security. Qatar can suck it. Surprised that they haven’t been further restricted from our airspace after the 2020 incident and their continued exploitation of Australian aviation law (ghost flights).

 

[Gold Member]

This info about Joyce meeting Albanese in November 2022 is all old information trying to be painted as fresh revelations by a desperate opposition (see in the middle of the article).

The Australian Government was right to block a brutal competitor with endless oil funds and state ownership that could have posed a serious threat to Qantas and its post-Covid job security. Qatar can suck it. Surprised that they haven’t been further restricted from our airspace after the 2020 incident and their continued exploitation of Australian aviation law (ghost flights).

Getting confused with the same rhetoric from very similar accounts here on AFF.

 

[oz_mark]

This info about Joyce meeting Albanese in November 2022 is all old information trying to be painted as fresh revelations by a desperate opposition (see in the middle of the article).

The Australian Government was right to block a brutal competitor with endless oil funds and state ownership that could have posed a serious threat to Qantas and its post-Covid job security. Qatar can suck it. Surprised that they haven’t been further restricted from our airspace after the 2020 incident and their continued exploitation of Australian aviation law (ghost flights).

I don't know that it's exploitation of aviation law - they're using something specifically written into the agreement.

 

[RSVKanga]

Getting confused with the same rhetoric from very similar accounts here on AFF.

Qatar Airways is a relentless and brutal competitor that has the potential to erase local jobs in Australia and compromise Qantas’ ability to provide profitable services.

The Government was absolutely right to deny this airline extra flights. In fact they shouldn’t even be allowed to operate in Australia due to their activities and actions concerning Australia and Australians.

Would support a total ban on that airline from Australia’s airspace; cost of airfares won’t be an issue since the Australian Government granted Turkish airlines 35 weekly slots into SYD, MEL, BNE and/or PER to fill the gap.

 

[RSVKanga]

I don't know that it's exploitation of aviation law - they're using something specifically written into the agreement.

They are quite frankly taking the p*ss on our aviation laws, the worst thing is that they can completely afford wasting tonnes of fuel and paying flight crew to fly empty flights within Australia because of their endless oil funds. Qantas could never.

 

[oz_mark]

They are quite frankly taking the p*ss on our aviation laws, the worst thing is that they can completely afford wasting tonnes of fuel and paying flight crew to fly empty flights within Australia because of their endless oil funds. Qantas could never.

No, they are using the regional package provisions of the bilateral agreement.

(Jetstar has applied for Cairns-Melbourne-Bali under a similar deal with Indonesia)

 

[dajop]

No, they are using the regional package provisions of the bilateral agreement.

(Jetstar has applied for Cairns-Melbourne-Bali under a similar deal with Indonesia)

Although a difference is that Jetstar will be able to carry pax traveling just between CNS and MEL, whereas QR can't carry anyone between MEL and ADL unless they travelled in from DOH or vice versa.

QR are almost certainly making money, despite the 2 hrs of extra flying and 2 hrs of extra ground time they need to fly to ADL and back as it supports the extra MEL service, which in turns helps contribute passengers to that particular wave of flights at DOH. Whilst JQ will almost certainly make money by lowering the wage cost on the CNS/MEL flight vs domestic crew.